Free Traffic Legal Advice
Live cases legal advice => Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) => Topic started by: ns2002 on July 18, 2024, 03:01:40 pm
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Your link supposedly to the back of the PCN only shows the front of it.
We need to see the back, because we don't often see Lincolnshire PCNs so there may be fatal errors in the small print that render it void. The content of a PCN is defined in law.
Ah sorry, I must've copied the wrong link.
This is the back of the pcn.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1u0rd7_WR7CcfmTRdB089paYd7v8bQJbB/view?usp=sharing
The PCN small print seems OK.
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Your link supposedly to the back of the PCN only shows the front of it.
We need to see the back, because we don't often see Lincolnshire PCNs so there may be fatal errors in the small print that render it void. The content of a PCN is defined in law.
Ah sorry, I must've copied the wrong link.
This is the back of the pcn.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1u0rd7_WR7CcfmTRdB089paYd7v8bQJbB/view?usp=sharing
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Your link supposedly to the back of the PCN only shows the front of it.
We need to see the back, because we don't often see Lincolnshire PCNs so there may be fatal errors in the small print that render it void. The content of a PCN is defined in law.
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IMO, that photo doesn't suggest there was room to move forward - and unless you were there then you don't have first-hand knowledge.
In any event, as regards the contravention IMO the argument goes to mitigation only.
Pl post the back of the PCN where most of the procedural parts have to appear.
Here's the link to the back of the PCN
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1u0rd7_WR7CcfmTRdB089paYd7v8bQJbB/view?usp=sharing
There was enough room as she moved forward right after the conversation.
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IMO, that photo doesn't suggest there was room to move forward - and unless you were there then you don't have first-hand knowledge.
In any event, as regards the contravention IMO the argument goes to mitigation only.
Pl post the back of the PCN where most of the procedural parts have to appear.
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There are more photos, surely?
Pl either post these or supply the PCN and VRM and we can look ourselves.
In any event, IMO the degree of incursion is greater than would be accepted by an adjudicator as 'de minimis'(legal term AKA too trifling to worry about) so your mother's* only plea is for discretion. However, an adjudicator may not exercise discretion and therefore this would have to be targeted at the council.
The reason I've leapt ahead to adjudication is because discretion cannot be considered and therefore absent prospective procedural errors on the council's part, which wouldn't become evident until the statutory discount has lapsed, the discount should be kept in mind. You should know that a 'section 25 crossing', which this is, does not require a traffic order and therefore this - often fruitful- line of enquiry is closed off. If this council re-offers the discounted sum even after unsuccessful formal reps then the matter could be taken to this stage at least - the stage where most procedural improprieties manifest themselves.
'Could have moved forward', then why didn't she? Did this space only arise while she was parked, if so, for how long was she parked?
*- is you mother the registered keeper with current DVLA details?
Thanks for your prompt reply.
I've added the full pcn onto the main post with vrm and pcn number kept in, link here also: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1tkKfe0cOhYnsRc8hJSaY4R-MVt93hzwK/view?usp=drive_link
She could've and offered to move forward, but the ceo did not care and said she was getting a ticket regardless.
She was in the car for around 3 minutes before the CEO arrived stating she was going to get a ticket, and once she had the conversation with them she moved forward the 2-3ft as previously stated. there was plenty of space at all time. Definitely enough to be fully within the bay.
She is the registered keeper and all details are current.
I've added the only other photo as they've supplied.
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There are more photos, surely?
Pl either post these or supply the PCN and VRM and we can look ourselves.
In any event, IMO the degree of incursion is greater than would be accepted by an adjudicator as 'de minimis'(legal term AKA too trifling to worry about) so your mother's* only plea is for discretion. However, an adjudicator may not exercise discretion and therefore this would have to be targeted at the council.
The reason I've leapt ahead to adjudication is because discretion cannot be considered and therefore absent prospective procedural errors on the council's part, which wouldn't become evident until the statutory discount has lapsed, the discount should be kept in mind. You should know that a 'section 25 crossing', which this is, does not require a traffic order and therefore this - often fruitful- line of enquiry is closed off. If this council re-offers the discounted sum even after unsuccessful formal reps then the matter could be taken to this stage at least - the stage where most procedural improprieties manifest themselves.
'Could have moved forward', then why didn't she? Did this space only arise while she was parked, if so, for how long was she parked?
*- is you mother the registered keeper with current DVLA details?
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Hi all,
My mum is a care worker, she was parked 80% into a bay with her back wheels on zig zags whilst waiting for the pharmacy to open for one of her clients. There was no car in front of her. Whilst she was waiting for the pharmacy to open, a CEO gave her a ticket for parking on zig zags, when she explained that she could just move forward 2-3ft, the CEO did not care. She offered to do this, the CEO said it did not matter and she was getting a ticket regardless.
The PCN in full is attached with the PCN number and reg blanked out but reading the top of the page, the faq, it says to leave it in. I will do this if needed.
EDIT: file too big wont attach, see link here for pcn: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1tkKfe0cOhYnsRc8hJSaY4R-MVt93hzwK/view?usp=drive_link
back side: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1u0rd7_WR7CcfmTRdB089paYd7v8bQJbB/view?usp=sharing
Google maps link:
https://maps.app.goo.gl/L8tYBw4iy5o8mpHu7 - she was parked right next to the sign of parking rules.
I have noticed the PCN says green, car is blue, doubt it make a difference.
I hope I have filled this all out correctly, please let me know a way we can get this cancelled. We have not replied to them at all yet.
(https://i.imgur.com/MSTXLzG.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/KVUiYXg.png)