Free Traffic Legal Advice
Live cases legal advice => Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) => Topic started by: RW33 on July 15, 2024, 06:28:08 pm
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;D DNC on 8th January.
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Apparently, I have the day off tomorrow as one council have retreated.
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Thanks Hippocrates. Just replied
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We have had one not contested very recently. I am happy to represent you and advise further. I will PM you my details.
Failure to consider the wording issues.
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Notice of Rejection has finally arrived in my email. Annoyingly it is a week old, as it went into my junk folder.So I have about 3 weeks. My next step would be to appeal to the transport tribunal.
From earlier posts, it seems there are previous successes during the appeal stage. Any help here would be greatly appreciated!
Notice of Rejection - https://imgur.com/a/xjMonxy
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Three not contested. The refused one was probably a DYI.
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Here is the list of cases that have gone to the London Tribunal for the location A406 N CIRCULAR W-BND CHEQUERS WAY GREEN LANES
Case Reference
2240472549 - Appeal allowed
2240475456 - Appeal allowed
2240395459 - Appeal refused
2240423871 - Appeal allowed
https://londontribunals.org.uk/ords/pwslive/f?p=14952:60::INITIALISE::::&cs=387gq53mdbDTC8NU_tP1GBGpXFwa8WQceoWyU7OyFk1T4yKQJR49zLA1R41kOcLQ9M9HVvPybPvRUz0ZtFk0_4w (https://londontribunals.org.uk/ords/pwslive/f?p=14952:60::INITIALISE::::&cs=387gq53mdbDTC8NU_tP1GBGpXFwa8WQceoWyU7OyFk1T4yKQJR49zLA1R41kOcLQ9M9HVvPybPvRUz0ZtFk0_4w)
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So post it and get a receipt and do it asap.
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Thanks. There didn’t seem to be a way to submit representation online. Once you have entered the PCN details the TFL website only offers a button to pay the PCN rather than submit representation or challenge. Am I not looking in the right place?
I may have to do a written one of this fails
TFL website after entering PCN details - https://imgur.com/a/XYJoi2w
Only option given is to add to basket and pay - https://imgur.com/a/4VkQdND
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Dear TFL
I make these formal representations:
1. I require you to consider my original challenge as a formal representation.
2. The Enforcement Notice, as does the PCN, mistakenly states Ground 4(2)(c) provided at Schedule I. It clearly limits to theft.
3. The Enforcement Notice describes itself as a PCN with regard to the Interpretation Act.
In light of the above, please cancel both notices.
Yours
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After taking their sweet time, TFL has finally sent me the Enforcement Notice - https://imgur.com/a/MFmftug
Do you suggest I submit the representation using the same information as the initial challenge?
Also, TFL have sent me a CD, which I presume is video evidence. I have no device to read a CV! I will ask around for some help on that.
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As promised, link to my thread and TFL correspondence:
https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/pcn-bus-lane-a406-n-circular-w-bnd-chequers-way-green-lanes/msg36146/#msg36146
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Please and also can you start your own thread.
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I’m following your situation closely, as I ended up in the same position—caught by the same camera in the bus lane. Interestingly, for a change, I did receive a letter specifically addressing the camera authorisation point. Would you like me to post it here?
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@cp8759
@RW33
https://imgur.com/a/ZFWUtow
Fascinating attempt at wriggling out of some of the points made. Please wait for the Enforcement Notice. They will take this all the way.
Pending any issues with that document when it arrives, I suggest submitting the same without commenting upon their reply.
I will draw lots with cp on this one! I keep a pack of longer straws.
"Revenge is a dish best served cold". (https://emoji.tapatalk-cdn.com/emoji33.png)
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Finally received response from TFL to my challenge letter. They are not willing to budge, as expected, and will send the formal Enforcement Notice within 28 days. I will then be able to make a formal representation against that.
Their grounds for rejecting my challenge was a bit shaky. They ended up saying in one sentence that "Case law reflects we need to be substantially compliant with the mandatory information we are required to place on a PCN, and we consider we are at least substantially compliant if not compliant." Make what you will of that.
The video evidence apparently is coming in a separate post. There was no response to the point on Camera Authorisation.
Also their response letter is dated 20/08/2024 and is more than 28 days after my initial challenge.
Here is their response in full - https://imgur.com/a/ZFWUtow
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Not yet. I challenged the PCN as Hippocrates suggested. TFL has paused the enforcement and they have 28 days to respond. So I’ll find out what they say later.
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Did you hear back about the appeal as I got ticket same place. Used to have no bus lane cameras only recently put them up
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Ah yes I remember now. Sorry the last cases I did were two years ago and have mislaid the e mail address.
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Thanks, Hippocrates. I have submitted the initial challenge using your draft. Interestingly, the challenge has to be submitted on this site - https://tfl.gov.uk/modes/driving/red-routes, rather than the site indicated in the letter. The PCN can also be viewed there. The enforcement is paused and now I wait to see what they come up with
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cp will have it.
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I don’t think I have the email contact. I had to raise an enquiry on the website. If there is one it would be really helpful.
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Thanks! That is very helpful. I have already raised an enquiry asking for the video and any other evidence related to this PCN. Should I make the initial challenge using the same process, by raising an enquiry regarding the PCN on the TFL website? There doesn’t seem to be any obvious route to send any formal representation at this stage, unless there is a way.
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@cp8759 do you have the email contact for TFL please? I should have it somewhere. :-[
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Dear TFL
Ref: PCN
VRM
I make this initial challenge as follows:
The PCN is unenforceable because:
1. The reference to The Interpretation Act is both irrelevant and confusing as the legislation pertaining to Bus Lane enforcement refers to actions which may be taken by the authority and/or appellant from the date of the notice.
2. The statement: "Any written correspondence before the issue of the Enforcement Notice will not be treated as a formal representation." fetters discretion and is contrary to the legislation in that it clearly implies that you will send an Enforcement Notice when the legislation states "may" at 4(3)(e)
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukla/1996/9/section/4/enacted
3. The statement: "It will not entitle you to the right of appeal." is both absurd and flies in the face of the law and natural justice. Further, the next statement about consideration seems to contradict what has been previously stated.
4. The statement: "Failure to respond or contact us within 28 days of the service date of this notice will result in the Enforcement Notice automatically being sent to you after this period." similarly fetters discretion and also misstates the time period.
Request for the video
I ask for a copy asap please.
The alleged contravention did not occur
The embedded photograph on the PCN lacks any proof of relevant signage either passed or in situ.
Camera authorisation
I put you to strict proof that the camera used to capture the alleged contravention has the correct certification. If this is not forthcoming, this will be another ground of appeal.
In light of the above, please cancel the PCN,
Name
Addresss
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This PCN has serious flaws re service of an Enforcement Notice, when - not if - they will send one. The Interpretation Act reference is entirely irrelevant! Actions start from the date of the notice.
I will draft something shortly.
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You can get a delay by contacting TfL and request the video of the alleged contravention. They send this out as a DVD, and put the PCN on hold for 2 weeks. We need to see the video to decide if there is a credible appeal argument to take to London Tribunals. If you submit reps, TfL will refuse anything you say, because they know most people then just cough-up. Once you get the DVD, upload it to here for assessment. If you haven't received the video towards the end of the hold period, contact TfL to ask for the DVD again. It may be prudent to submit a simple representation at that point so as not to lose your option of going to London Tribunals.
With TfL, there may be a technical appeal argument, but I'll let the experts tell you about that.
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Thanks. I can wait out the 28 days. But it would be good to know on what grounds I would fight the ticket.
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We always advise fighting bus lane tickets!
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I received this PCN from TFL by post today. The notice is dated 06/07/2024 but received it 9 days later. The notice says that the 50% reduced rate is payable if "paid before the end of the period of 14 days beginning with the date of this notice". I was expecting it to be 14 days from the date the letter was received. This is a bit unfair that now I have only 5 days remaining to pay £80 and accept liability, or wait until the full 28 days to be then served with the enforcement notice and presumably become liable to pay the full £160 fine.
Incidentally, there are houses along that section of road next to the problematic bus lane. Access to those require you to drive into the bus lane in order to drive into the respective parking spaces for the houses. There is nothing to say the driver was not intending to visit any of those premises that day.
Having looked at this notice is there anything that can be done? If not I am tempted to pay the reduced amount before the time expires instead of waiting the 28 days and ending up with with the full charge.
PCN - https://imgur.com/a/cYjtWuo