Free Traffic Legal Advice
Live cases legal advice => Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) => Topic started by: hugradar on July 14, 2024, 10:33:07 pm
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Any advice?
It's now up to you whether to take them all the way to the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, or pay-up the £35. If it were me, I'd take them to the TPT, but it's your money. In order to get to the TPT, you first have to submit representations against a Notice to Owner. Only when refused can you register an appeal at the TPT,.
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Any advice?
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I cant find the appeal i sent, but it was along the lines of this below that was suggested
Have a read here (section on restricted parking zones)
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/know-your-traffic-signs/on-street-parking-control-signs-and-road-markings#restricted-parking-zones
There have been a couple of cases on this forum for the RPZ in Coventry city centre. Here, the yellow lines have all been removed as they should be, and entry signs and repeater signs erected. The Blackburn RPZ has clearly been installed on the cheap, and hence by still having yellow lines in place, is confusing to the motorist.
I suggest you submit an informal challenge on the following lines: -
Dear Sirs
Re PCN <PCN Number> dated <dd/mm/yyyy> served at <hr:mn> in Lord Street West
I deny responsibility for payment of the PCN penalty on the grounds that the circumstances that gave rise to the PCN cause confusion to motorists.
Following receipt of the PCN, I sought advice on the alleged offence, because I could not see what I had apparently not done correctly. I should also mention that I am a Blue Badge Holder. It appears that Blackburn Council have installed a Restricted Parking Zone (RPZ), in the town centre. I have been advised that RPZs should not contain any yellow lines, double or single, in the Zone because they can cause confusion to motorists. Yet it is clear just from a walk around the Blackburn RPZ that yellow lines remain in place.
In view of this clear failure correctly to install the RPZ, there should be no enforcement of any parking irregularities until the yellow lines have been removed in their entirety. I therefore request that the PCN be immediately cancelled and that Blackburn cease enforcement, until the installation of the RPZ has been corrected to match government guidance.
Yours faithfully
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Hi
i received a notice of rejection today as attached
https://ibb.co/7CQSD3n
https://ibb.co/Rc2nQ3k
is it worth taking further, or pay?
For convenience:
(https://i.ibb.co/YQXNS5c/1.jpg) (https://ibb.co/7CQSD3n)
(https://i.ibb.co/DQ4Xw9H/2.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Rc2nQ3k)
Please may we see exactly what you wrote, so it can be seen how considered is their response.
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Hi
i received a notice of rejection today as attached
https://ibb.co/7CQSD3n
https://ibb.co/Rc2nQ3k
is it worth taking further, or pay?
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When you submit your informal representation or any future formal representation you should make it very clear that the Blue Badge holder, ie your daughter, was in the car when you parked. It's not your Blue Badge, or our Blue Badge.
However display of a BB doesn't give you an exemption from the no loading restrictions.
Were there any yellow lines in the vicinity of where you parked? Your opening post suggests there weren't and I don't see any in the photos. If you're going to try and argue that whole RPZ is not compliant because there are yellow lines elsewhere than your parking place, then it might be best if you get some photos to show them. Don't rely on GSV. Is that possible?
Certainly you should have a go and get something delivered to the Council on or before Sat the 27th July. If the Council reject then they should re-offer the discount for a further 14 days. So you have nothing lose by challenging. Says as much on the back of the PCN.
I'd be inclined to try a more humble and contrite approach. The presence of yellow lines elsewhere in the RPZ led you to misunderstand that could park where there weren't any yellow lines. Terribly sorry, it won't happen again, an honest mistake, could happen to anyone, here's a copy of the BB that was displayed, the BB is my daughter's and she was in the car when I parked, please your discretion to cancel the PCN. Try and incorporate something like the above into Incandescent's version in the posts above.
See what others have to say as you have some time.
The yellow lines have not been fully removed where i parked, so its difficult to tell if they should be there and time has taken its course on it, or should not be there .
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When you submit your informal representation or any future formal representation you should make it very clear that the Blue Badge holder, ie your daughter, was in the car when you parked. It's not your Blue Badge, or our Blue Badge.
However display of a BB doesn't give you an exemption from the no loading restrictions.
Were there any yellow lines in the vicinity of where you parked? Your opening post suggests there weren't and I don't see any in the photos. If you're going to try and argue that whole RPZ is not compliant because there are yellow lines elsewhere than your parking place, then it might be best if you get some photos to show them. Don't rely on GSV. Is that possible?
Certainly you should have a go and get something delivered to the Council on or before Sat the 27th July. If the Council reject then they should re-offer the discount for a further 14 days. So you have nothing lose by challenging. Says as much on the back of the PCN.
I'd be inclined to try a more humble and contrite approach. The presence of yellow lines elsewhere in the RPZ led you to misunderstand that could park where there weren't any yellow lines. Terribly sorry, it won't happen again, an honest mistake, could happen to anyone, here's a copy of the BB that was displayed, the BB is my daughter's and she was in the car when I parked, please your discretion to cancel the PCN. Try and incorporate something like the above into Incandescent's version in the posts above.
See what others have to say as you have some time.
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........................................
If you would like to Challenge this PCN please fill in the form below:
Step 1: Enter your details and your Challenge
Step 2: Upload supplementary evidences (optional)
Step 3: Confirm all information you provided and submit
Fields marked with an asterisk (*) must be completed
PCN number:
Vehicle Registration:
Title: *
Select
First name: *
Surname: *
Telephone: *
Email: *
Address line 1: *
Address line 2: *
Town: *
County: *
Post code: *
Is this all required to be provided? as the car is Motability.
Yes it is required.
The person in possession of an on-street PCN can submit an informal representation (informal challenge) which is what you've been advised to do in this case. Motability or otherwise makes no difference but mention it in your informal representation if you wish.
If the Council reject your informal representation and you don't pay the charge then the Council will serve a Notice to Owner on the Registered Keeper as held by the DVLA. In the case of a Motability vehicle that will be the person named on the Motability agreement followed by a fleet number. So that's you or is it your daughter? If that happens then the RK named must respond to the NTO by either paying it or by submitting a formal representation, even if the response to the informal representation is still outstanding.
This should be all on the PCN you have, which is one of the reasons we want to look at it, to check it's all compliant.
yeah i have already uploaded the PCN:
https://ibb.co/wdgN2PZ
https://ibb.co/chY7xfm
I am on the agreement, as she is only 5
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........................................
If you would like to Challenge this PCN please fill in the form below:
Step 1: Enter your details and your Challenge
Step 2: Upload supplementary evidences (optional)
Step 3: Confirm all information you provided and submit
Fields marked with an asterisk (*) must be completed
PCN number:
Vehicle Registration:
Title: *
Select
First name: *
Surname: *
Telephone: *
Email: *
Address line 1: *
Address line 2: *
Town: *
County: *
Post code: *
Is this all required to be provided? as the car is Motability.
Yes it is required.
The person in possession of an on-street PCN can submit an informal representation (informal challenge) which is what you've been advised to do in this case. Motability or otherwise makes no difference but mention it in your informal representation if you wish.
If the Council reject your informal representation and you don't pay the charge then the Council will serve a Notice to Owner on the Registered Keeper as held by the DVLA. In the case of a Motability vehicle that will be the person named on the Motability agreement followed by a fleet number. So that's you or is it your daughter? If that happens then the RK named must respond to the NTO by either paying it or by submitting a formal representation, even if the response to the informal representation is still outstanding.
This should be all on the PCN you have, which is one of the reasons we want to look at it, to check it's all compliant.
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Have a read here (section on restricted parking zones)
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/know-your-traffic-signs/on-street-parking-control-signs-and-road-markings#restricted-parking-zones
There have been a couple of cases on this forum for the RPZ in Coventry city centre. Here, the yellow lines have all been removed as they should be, and entry signs and repeater signs erected. The Blackburn RPZ has clearly been installed on the cheap, and hence by still having yellow lines in place, is confusing to the motorist.
I suggest you submit an informal challenge on the following lines: -
Dear Sirs
Re PCN <PCN Number> dated <dd/mm/yyyy> served at <hr:mn> in Lord Street West
I deny responsibility for payment of the PCN penalty on the grounds that the circumstances that gave rise to the PCN cause confusion to motorists.
Following receipt of the PCN, I sought advice on the alleged offence, because I could not see what I had apparently not done correctly. I should also mention that I am a Blue Badge Holder. It appears that Blackburn Council have installed a Restricted Parking Zone (RPZ), in the town centre. I have been advised that RPZs should not contain any yellow lines, double or single, in the Zone because they can cause confusion to motorists. Yet it is clear just from a walk around the Blackburn RPZ that yellow lines remain in place.
In view of this clear failure correctly to install the RPZ, there should be no enforcement of any parking irregularities until the yellow lines have been removed in their entirety. I therefore request that the PCN be immediately cancelled and that Blackburn cease enforcement, until the installation of the RPZ has been corrected to match government guidance.
Yours faithfully
I did want to ask, it asks though, when doing the challenge it asks for the below details
If you would like to Challenge this PCN please fill in the form below:
Step 1: Enter your details and your Challenge
Step 2: Upload supplementary evidences (optional)
Step 3: Confirm all information you provided and submit
Fields marked with an asterisk (*) must be completed
PCN number:
Vehicle Registration:
Title: *
Select
First name: *
Surname: *
Telephone: *
Email: *
Address line 1: *
Address line 2: *
Town: *
County: *
Post code: *
Is this all required to be provided? as the car is Motability.
-
Have a read here (section on restricted parking zones)
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/know-your-traffic-signs/on-street-parking-control-signs-and-road-markings#restricted-parking-zones
There have been a couple of cases on this forum for the RPZ in Coventry city centre. Here, the yellow lines have all been removed as they should be, and entry signs and repeater signs erected. The Blackburn RPZ has clearly been installed on the cheap, and hence by still having yellow lines in place, is confusing to the motorist.
I suggest you submit an informal challenge on the following lines: -
Dear Sirs
Re PCN <PCN Number> dated <dd/mm/yyyy> served at <hr:mn> in Lord Street West
I deny responsibility for payment of the PCN penalty on the grounds that the circumstances that gave rise to the PCN cause confusion to motorists.
Following receipt of the PCN, I sought advice on the alleged offence, because I could not see what I had apparently not done correctly. I should also mention that I am a Blue Badge Holder. It appears that Blackburn Council have installed a Restricted Parking Zone (RPZ), in the town centre. I have been advised that RPZs should not contain any yellow lines, double or single, in the Zone because they can cause confusion to motorists. Yet it is clear just from a walk around the Blackburn RPZ that yellow lines remain in place.
In view of this clear failure correctly to install the RPZ, there should be no enforcement of any parking irregularities until the yellow lines have been removed in their entirety. I therefore request that the PCN be immediately cancelled and that Blackburn cease enforcement, until the installation of the RPZ has been corrected to match government guidance.
Yours faithfully
Thanks, i will get that uploaded today
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Have a read here (section on restricted parking zones)
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/know-your-traffic-signs/on-street-parking-control-signs-and-road-markings#restricted-parking-zones
There have been a couple of cases on this forum for the RPZ in Coventry city centre. Here, the yellow lines have all been removed as they should be, and entry signs and repeater signs erected. The Blackburn RPZ has clearly been installed on the cheap, and hence by still having yellow lines in place, is confusing to the motorist.
I suggest you submit an informal challenge on the following lines: -
Dear Sirs
Re PCN <PCN Number> dated <dd/mm/yyyy> served at <hr:mn> in Lord Street West
I deny responsibility for payment of the PCN penalty on the grounds that the circumstances that gave rise to the PCN cause confusion to motorists.
Following receipt of the PCN, I sought advice on the alleged offence, because I could not see what I had apparently not done correctly. I should also mention that I am a Blue Badge Holder. It appears that Blackburn Council have installed a Restricted Parking Zone (RPZ), in the town centre. I have been advised that RPZs should not contain any yellow lines, double or single, in the Zone because they can cause confusion to motorists. Yet it is clear just from a walk around the Blackburn RPZ that yellow lines remain in place.
In view of this clear failure correctly to install the RPZ, there should be no enforcement of any parking irregularities until the yellow lines have been removed in their entirety. I therefore request that the PCN be immediately cancelled and that Blackburn cease enforcement, until the installation of the RPZ has been corrected to match government guidance.
Yours faithfully
-
If you didn't know it already, a Restricted Parking Zone has signs at the entrance streets that tell you that you can only park in marked bays. No yellow lines are part of an RPZ, and, in fact, councils should remove them as their presence would be confusing.
To get to Lord St West, (which is one-way), you would have had to drive down Cardwell Place, and would, therefore have passed this sign: -
https://maps.app.goo.gl/c1mdd9ifnHGPKrEB6
Then, turning left from Corporation Street into Lord St West there is an RPZ repeater: -
https://maps.app.goo.gl/zPMWgcxdtNf4Qx6G9
However, whilst it looks as if you are bang-to-rights, I do have my doubts about this RPZ, because the council have not fully removed the single and double-yellow lines, which makes for much confusion.
So, advice is not to rush and pay, but wait a bit for others to comment. Don't miss any deadlines on the PCN, though. I think if your case got to an adjudicator, there is an excellent chance of a win, because the council have failed to follow the signing requirements of an RPZ, namely leaving the yellow lines in position. JUst look at these double-yellow lines in Cardwell Place after passing the RPZ sign.
https://maps.app.goo.gl/fTSCFHR5usbkyWt76
And finally, please post the PCN, all sides, so we can check it for errors.
Thanks for the reply, uploaded now
https://ibb.co/wdgN2PZ
https://ibb.co/chY7xfm
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If you didn't know it already, a Restricted Parking Zone has signs at the entrance streets that tell you that you can only park in marked bays. No yellow lines are part of an RPZ, and, in fact, councils should remove them as their presence would be confusing.
To get to Lord St West, (which is one-way), you would have had to drive down Cardwell Place, and would, therefore have passed this sign: -
https://maps.app.goo.gl/c1mdd9ifnHGPKrEB6
Then, turning left from Corporation Street into Lord St West there is an RPZ repeater: -
https://maps.app.goo.gl/zPMWgcxdtNf4Qx6G9
However, whilst it looks as if you are bang-to-rights, I do have my doubts about this RPZ, because the council have not fully removed the single and double-yellow lines, which makes for much confusion.
So, advice is not to rush and pay, but wait a bit for others to comment. Don't miss any deadlines on the PCN, though. I think if your case got to an adjudicator, there is an excellent chance of a win, because the council have failed to follow the signing requirements of an RPZ, namely leaving the yellow lines in position. JUst look at these double-yellow lines in Cardwell Place after passing the RPZ sign.
https://maps.app.goo.gl/fTSCFHR5usbkyWt76
And finally, please post the PCN, all sides, so we can check it for errors.
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Hello
Today (Sunday 14th) in Blackburn on LORD STREET WEST, I parked my car and displayed our disabled badge (As my daughter is entitled and was with us) in our Motability provided car.
I was given a ticket for parking in a loading area, which was not clearly parked as i saw the sign once i got the ticket, the sign is when you enter the area but not where i parked.
When trying to sort our child out it was not a priority to check i guess.
There are no clear yellow lines either.
Can i appeal this?
Contravention description: Parked or loading / unloading in a restricted street where waiting and loading/unloading restrictions are in force
https://ibb.co/2j1gWXT
https://ibb.co/4YQbVF6
https://ibb.co/0JGxWv4
https://ibb.co/xMR8VDK
https://ibb.co/zNqyPKP