Free Traffic Legal Advice

Live cases legal advice => Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) => Topic started by: HenryShah on July 04, 2024, 11:25:54 am

Title: Re: BRENT - Contravention code 53 - Mount Stewart Ave j/w Manning Gardens
Post by: Hippocrates on October 07, 2024, 08:37:28 pm
Quote from: Incandescent on October 06, 2024, 05:32:20 pm
That might be a useful adjudication, because it states that unless a clock is in position at the sign giving the time, the council must accept that timepieces carried by people on their person or fitted to the vehicle may not be totally in synchronisation with the council camera clock. Useful to see an adjudicator use the words "de minimis".

5. Mr Murray-Smith also submitted a collateral challenge on behalf of the
Appellant, upon which I comment notwithstanding that my Decision is
founded on an evidential basis, since I note that the issue raised had been
drawn to this Enforcement Authority's attention by Adjudicator Carl Teper in
Case No 2240196951 Decided on 29th July 2024. I concur with Mr Teper's
finding; the Enforcement Authority is on notice as to the situation.

Our administrator is truly the Mozart of the parking world.
Title: Re: BRENT - Contravention code 53 - Mount Stewart Ave j/w Manning Gardens
Post by: Incandescent on October 06, 2024, 05:32:20 pm
That might be a useful adjudication, because it states that unless a clock is in position at the sign giving the time, the council must accept that timepieces carried by people on their person or fitted to the vehicle may not be totally in synchronisation with the council camera clock. Useful to see an adjudicator use the words "de minimis".
Title: Re: BRENT - Contravention code 53 - Mount Stewart Ave j/w Manning Gardens
Post by: cp8759 on October 06, 2024, 03:41:58 pm
Outcome (https://drive.google.com/file/d/1kUnpR6AeimZ0uSMUcxhmIiK5j9eSHnka/view).
Title: Re: BRENT - Contravention code 53 - Mount Stewart Ave j/w Manning Gardens
Post by: cp8759 on September 01, 2024, 10:24:08 pm
Well the last time I crossed swords with Brent it did not go well for them, see Commercial Plant Services Ltd v London Borough of Brent (2240198640, 29 August 2024) (https://drive.google.com/file/d/1NmvKS_FdyZB21_XlZxHSxQHYMugPc0pg/view)

Anyway the obvious next step would be to appeal, @HenryShah I'll drop you a PM in case you'd like me to represent you.
Title: Re: BRENT - Contravention code 53 - Mount Stewart Ave j/w Manning Gardens
Post by: Hippocrates on September 01, 2024, 08:26:30 pm
1. Bolleaux re timings argument.

2. NOR fails to mention the power of the adjudicator to extend time in which to lodge the appeal.

Website has problems too as cp8759 may wish to explain - like Haringey.
Title: Re: BRENT - Contravention code 53 - Mount Stewart Ave j/w Manning Gardens
Post by: HenryShah on September 01, 2024, 02:44:16 pm
Apologies for the delay in adding the NOR.

(https://i.imgur.com/V0eJdn8.jpg)
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Title: Re: BRENT - Contravention code 53 - Mount Stewart Ave j/w Manning Gardens
Post by: Hippocrates on August 31, 2024, 01:45:16 pm
We need to see the NOR please.
Title: Re: BRENT - Contravention code 53 - Mount Stewart Ave j/w Manning Gardens
Post by: Incandescent on August 31, 2024, 11:18:55 am
Quote from: HenryShah on August 31, 2024, 11:04:48 am
Hi - finally got a response from Brent(they have an 6-8wk backlog!). My appeal was rejected…so I guess my next stage is appeal? If, the appeal is unsuccessful does that mean the full penalty is payable?
Yes it does, but you have a pretty strong case on the times. You could also add in the very tardy response to your reps in your appeal to London Tribunals.
Title: Re: BRENT - Contravention code 53 - Mount Stewart Ave j/w Manning Gardens
Post by: HenryShah on August 31, 2024, 11:04:48 am
Hi - finally got a response from Brent(they have an 6-8wk backlog!). My appeal was rejected…so I guess my next stage is appeal? If, the appeal is unsuccessful does that mean the full penalty is payable?
Title: Re: BRENT - Contravention code 53 - Mount Stewart Ave j/w Manning Gardens
Post by: cp8759 on July 08, 2024, 08:30:36 pm
You can add a reference to that case if you wish but it won't make any difference to the council's response. It's only at the tribunal that previous decisions are given any weight.
Title: Re: BRENT - Contravention code 53 - Mount Stewart Ave j/w Manning Gardens
Post by: HenryShah on July 08, 2024, 09:04:41 am
Thank you!! Should I not reference Mohamed Byanouni v London Borough of Barnet (case reference 218015398A)?
Title: Re: BRENT - Contravention code 53 - Mount Stewart Ave j/w Manning Gardens
Post by: cp8759 on July 06, 2024, 04:46:54 pm
Here you go:

Dear London Borough of Brent,

I challenge liability on the ground that the alleged contravention did not occur but even if it did, it must be de-minimis. According to the clock in my car I passed the signs at 2:29, prior to the commencement of the restricted hours, but even according to your video I passed the signs when it was only 2:30:18, so only 18 seconds into the restricted hours.

In light of the above the penalty charge should be cancelled.

Yours faithfully,


Send this online via https://brent.tarantoportal.com/PCN/ and take a screenshot of the confirmation page.

The screenshot below isn't needed now, but will be handy if we have to take this to the tribunal.

(https://i.imgur.com/xPNzB5v.png)
Title: Re: BRENT - Contravention code 53 - Mount Stewart Ave j/w Manning Gardens
Post by: MrChips on July 04, 2024, 12:38:44 pm
Hi Henry, I was corresponding with you on Facebook about this case.

Here is the decision I referred to which will have relevance with your circumstances...

Case Details
Case reference   218015398A
Appellant   Mohamed Byanouni
Authority   London Borough of Barnet
VRM   RV62RFK
PCN Details
PCN   AG9020969A
Contravention date   08 Mar 2018
Contravention time   16:14:00
Contravention location   In Clovelly Avenue (Colindale Primary School) NW9
Penalty amount   GBP 130.00
Contravention   Stopped in a restricted area outside a school etc
Referral date   
Decision Date   17 May 2018
Adjudicator   Sean Stanton-Dunne
Appeal decision   Appeal allowed
Direction   cancel the Penalty Charge Notice and the Notice to Owner.
Reasons   
This PCN was issued for the alleged contravention of being stopped in a restricted area outside a school when prohibited. The alleged contravention occurred in Clovelly Avenue at 4.14pm on 8 March 2018.

I have looked at the CCTV footage and also the site images submitted by the Council. These show that Mr Byanouni's vehicle was stopped on entrance markings in front of Colindale Primary School. They also show that there is a sign at the location warning motorists that there is no stopping on the entrance markings between 2.45pm and 4.15pm Mondays to Fridays.

Mr Byanouni appeals because he says that he stopped to pick up his children from school. He says that he is well aware of the restrictions and that the clock in his car showed the time of 4.15pm. The Council says that its clock is calibrated according to the Atomic Clock, ensuring 100% accuracy. The CCTV timing shows the vehicle stopping at 4:14:18.

I accept the evidence of Mr Byanouni that the clock in his car showed the time of 4.15pm. I find that the alleged contravention did not occur. There must be some application of common sense. Motorists cannot all be expected to wear time pieces calibrated to the exact second according to the Atomic Clock. A motorist reading an ordinary watch will not be able to know the time calculated to the exact second.
Title: Re: BRENT - Contravention code 53 - Mount Stewart Ave j/w Manning Gardens
Post by: HenryShah on July 04, 2024, 12:23:23 pm
Thank you .  I tried to follow the instruction, but didn't quite get it...doh.  Looks like I missed a page.

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Title: Re: BRENT - Contravention code 53 - Mount Stewart Ave j/w Manning Gardens
Post by: John U.K. on July 04, 2024, 12:09:51 pm
You need to follow the instructions in the above link about posting the BBCodes here.
Here you go:

(https://i.imgur.com/zq5JBnz.jpeg)


(https://i.imgur.com/h2xF5IY.jpeg)

Just two sides to the PCN?


Title: Re: BRENT - Contravention code 53 - Mount Stewart Ave j/w Manning Gardens
Post by: John U.K. on July 04, 2024, 11:41:10 am
For meaningful advice, please to have a read of
https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/read-this-first-before-posting-your-case!-this-section-is-for-council-tfl-dartme/

and post up here all sides of the PCN, redacting only name & address, with a GSV link to the location.

Also any video which may be on the council site.
Title: BRENT - Contravention code 53 - Mount Stewart Ave j/w Manning Gardens
Post by: HenryShah on July 04, 2024, 11:25:54 am
Hi

Was seeking help for a failing to comply with a restriction on vehicles entering a pedestrian zone.
The contravention took place 18secs into the zone coming into effect.  I genuinely believed that I was still a minute before the 2.30 restriction and the restriction applies to a very small section of the road that can be passed in less than 20seconds.

(https://imgur.com/a/YgD1hL4)

https://imgur.com/a/YgD1hL4 (https://imgur.com/a/YgD1hL4)