Free Traffic Legal Advice
Live cases legal advice => Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) => Topic started by: preciousb on July 02, 2024, 01:15:47 am
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Thanks for your reply. For some reason I'm just seeing your response from the 25th as well! I'd come to check here but there was no reply at the time. Someone else had even referenced this thread somewhere else on the message boards as probably not going anywhere so I ended up paying it on the 24th because the 14 days was up and I didn't want the price to double! :-[ For future reference, in layman's terms, what does all that mean please?
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@preciousb so here is The Waltham Forest (Various Roads) (Lead Pipe Replacement) (Temporary Road Closures) (No. 1) Order 2024 (https://drive.google.com/file/d/1sT9bt7vQgZ-ejTmRBoGtFMXGEYdLOQdW/view)
(https://i.imgur.com/Lot7Jqr.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/W44SPqx.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/hYMCUyM.jpeg)
(https://i.imgur.com/CEAhmKY.jpeg)
(https://i.imgur.com/wpvc0Gs.jpeg)
Hence there is a TTRO, just no signs to tell you about it, so the authority appears to have fallen foul of the Schedule to The Road Traffic (Temporary Restrictions) Procedure Regulations 1992 (https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1992/1215/schedule/made).
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You were parked in a parking place.
The sign conveyed that 'parking bays suspended'.
The PCN stated that you were parked etc. ..(temporary traffic order).
There is no reference to a TTRO on the sign you've posted.
Their reply claims that parking was suspended by virtue of a temporary traffic order.
So, all the authority have to do is prove that they complied with the the regs, such as:
7. The authority shall take such steps as are necessary to secure—
(a)before the instument comes into force, the placing on or near each road to which the instrument relates of such traffic signs in such positions as the authority may consider requisite for the purposes of securing that adequate information as to the effect of the instrument is made available to persons using the road;
(b)the maintenance of such signs so long as the instrument continues in force; and
(c)in a case where the instrument contains provisions suspending statutory provisions to which section 14(7) of the 1984 Act applies, such removal, replacement or covering up of existing traffic signs as the authority may consider requisite for the purpose of avoiding confusion to the users of the road.
And of course without sight of the order itself (displayed in the road) how could a driver know that a TTRO was in effect?
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@preciousb the informal representations were bound to be rejected, just wait for the notice to owner and let us know as soon as you've got it.
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It's not a parking suspension, it's a TTRO, so the starting point is the signs don't tell you that.
The informal challenge is fine for now but in parallel I'm going to make some enquiries.
Also please re-post the PCN without redacting the number plate please, as per the guidance here (https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/read-this-first-before-posting-your-case!-this-section-is-for-council-tfl-dartme/).
Hi CP
I just thought I'd check do you think it's worth going down another route please, considering the informal challenge was unsuccessful?
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Response Just received. Unfortunately they're not budging. So heartless!
Not really heartless. Computers have no hearts, and it's 'computer says no'!
Perhaps 99% of informal challenges end in rejection :(
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Council photos:
(https://i.imgur.com/dijhuGD.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/Ip3SHqF.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/iqsSCJE.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/3oLG5Tm.png)
Thanks for this.
Response Just received. Unfortunately they're not budging. So heartless!
Response image links:
https://1drv.ms/i/s!AmssZTKU0TY2_1agxFH7d38S6P-k?e=zbpRyl
https://1drv.ms/i/s!AmssZTKU0TY2_1cPfbUN6QuF9tmh?e=WXXYf2
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Council photos:
(https://i.imgur.com/dijhuGD.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/Ip3SHqF.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/iqsSCJE.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/3oLG5Tm.png)
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It's not a parking suspension, it's a TTRO, so the starting point is the signs don't tell you that.
The informal challenge is fine for now but in parallel I'm going to make some enquiries.
Also please re-post the PCN without redacting the number plate please, as per the guidance here (https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/read-this-first-before-posting-your-case!-this-section-is-for-council-tfl-dartme/).
Amazing...Ok sure.
Here's the PCN again - https://1drv.ms/i/s!AmssZTKU0TY2_mqnOC2dwus_v1yF?e=GubhAv
Many thanks
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It's not a parking suspension, it's a TTRO, so the starting point is the signs don't tell you that.
The informal challenge is fine for now but in parallel I'm going to make some enquiries.
Also please re-post the PCN without redacting the number plate please, as per the guidance here (https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/read-this-first-before-posting-your-case!-this-section-is-for-council-tfl-dartme/).
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Will do...cheers!
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Looks OK to me. Post up their reply when you get it. This will be just an informal challenge. Depending on how they reply, further advice will be given.
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OK, so I suggest you submit an informal representation based on what you have told us, especially emphasising that although you are a BB holder and own a car, you are unable at times to go out for many days, and thus was unable to go and check your car when the suspension sign was erected. You therefore ask that the PCN be cancelled.
Include copies of whatever medical evidence that supports your disabled status.
I think you also need to see if you can arrange for your car to be looked at at regular intervals by, (say) a friend or family member. Suspensions in London are very common so you don't want PCNs to keep arriving in the future.
Thanks for that advice. I appreciate it. What do you think about me sending the following please:
vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv
Dear Sir or Madam,
Parking ticket number: FR62791853
Vehicle registration number: [will insert vehicle registration number here]
I received a parking ticket on 27/06/24 and would like to submit an appeal due to mitigating circumstances.
I barely leave the house due to disability, was unaware of the impending suspension, and was parked there before the signs went up. The last time I went out or used the car before receiving the ticket was on Tuesday 18/06/24 and I was shocked to come out for the first time in a long time to see the ticket.
Having just been placed on medication for anxiety by my GP, it’s been distressing having to deal with this too.
I live in [will insert property name here] at the end of the road where I was parked and unfortunately I can't see the road from my house. I can't walk very far and we don't have any sort of dedicated parking for the building. And so I use my resident permit to park on Cecil road or Knebworth Avenue on the other side.
Please see photos of my blue badge and disabled section of my v5 attached as evidence and proof of my appeal.
Yours faithfully,
[will insert signature here]
[will insert name (printed) here]
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OK, so I suggest you submit an informal representation based on what you have told us, especially emphasising that although you are a BB holder and own a car, you are unable at times to go out for many days, and thus was unable to go and check your car when the suspension sign was erected. You therefore ask that the PCN be cancelled.
Include copies of whatever medical evidence that supports your disabled status.
I think you also need to see if you can arrange for your car to be looked at at regular intervals by, (say) a friend or family member. Suspensions in London are very common so you don't want PCNs to keep arriving in the future.
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I barely go out due to having a disability.
Could you expand on this, please. Do you have a Blue Badge at all ?
Not being able to go out very often could be compelling reasons for cancellation of a PCN, because you missed the suspension signs due to this disability.
Hiya
Thanks for your reply.
Yes, I have a Blue Badge due to having multiple chronic conditions and my car is registered as disabled. I spend most of my time indoors and probably go out once a week if at all. I hadn't been out for about 9/10 days during the period when the suspension signs were put up.
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I barely go out due to having a disability.
Could you expand on this, please. Do you have a Blue Badge at all ?
Not being able to go out very often could be compelling reasons for cancellation of a PCN, because you missed the suspension signs due to this disability.
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Evening all,
I'd be grateful for some help and advice on this matter please.
WALTHAM FOREST COUNCIL
Cecil Road - Thursday 27/06/24
CONTRAVENTION: 02a Parked or loading / unloading in a restricted street where waiting and loading/unloading restrictions are in force (temporary traffic order)
I was unaware of the impending suspension, and was parked there before the signs went up. And so you can imagine my shock when I went out on the day of the actual suspension to see the signs and find a ticket on my car. Just my luck! :(
I barely go out due to having a disability. The last time I went out in the car was on Tuesday 18/06/24.
I was told by a resident on Cecil Road that the signs went up around a week before I received the ticket.
I live in a maisonette at the end of the road where I was parked and unfortunately I can't see the road from my house. We don't have any sort of dedicated parking. So we have residents permits and share parking with residents who live on Cecil road and Knebworth Avenue on the other side.
I was told by a resident on Cecil Road that the signs went up around a week before I received the ticket.
Would there be any point in challenging this? If so, what would be the best way to go about it please?
Thanks in advance.
Streetview location:
https://maps.app.goo.gl/SAar1ViRmUUeYHF77
Images:
Ticket 1 - https://1drv.ms/i/s!AmssZTKU0TY2_jT1OI6YLEacJzkA?e=0BoXyY
Ticket 2 - https://1drv.ms/i/s!AmssZTKU0TY2_jUwSF_yLK_E_jc4?e=DMiXAO
Suspension signs on road - https://1drv.ms/i/s!AmssZTKU0TY2_XzfZf6VMe9PtEaQ?e=g5LDCM
Suspension sign close up - https://1drv.ms/i/s!AmssZTKU0TY2_X1EfELU9Jr2G29M?e=dcL3aN