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Live cases legal advice => Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) => Topic started by: maisiethecat on July 21, 2023, 03:32:57 pm

Title: Re: Bus lane PCN for havering, moved into bus lane for oncoming traffic and issued with a PCN
Post by: cp8759 on March 17, 2024, 11:16:23 pm

ICO Decision Notice (https://ico.org.uk/media/action-weve-taken/decision-notices/2024/4028108/ic-258168-c5n2.pdf).


Does this set a precedent?

Not really, as the ICO was not provided with any substantive arguments as to why the exemption applied. Another council could try and come up with a better argument. It only really becomes a precedent if it gets to the First-tier Tribunal, but I have a number of TFL cases headed that way at the moment.
Title: Re: Bus lane PCN for havering, moved into bus lane for oncoming traffic and issued with a PCN
Post by: Hippocrates on March 02, 2024, 10:04:37 am
Case number?
All their paperwork now fixed.

Actually, not quite.  They still refer to service date in the first sentence under Enforcement Notice.


(https://i.imgur.com/XDfCNkh.jpeg)
Title: Re: Bus lane PCN for havering, moved into bus lane for oncoming traffic and issued with a PCN
Post by: Hippocrates on March 01, 2024, 01:22:54 pm
ICO Decision Notice (https://ico.org.uk/media/action-weve-taken/decision-notices/2024/4028108/ic-258168-c5n2.pdf).
Another possible avenue to contact the auditors?
Title: Re: Bus lane PCN for havering, moved into bus lane for oncoming traffic and issued with a PCN
Post by: John U.K. on February 29, 2024, 06:36:22 pm
ICO Decision Notice (https://ico.org.uk/media/action-weve-taken/decision-notices/2024/4028108/ic-258168-c5n2.pdf).
[/i]

Does this set a precedent?
Title: Re: Bus lane PCN for havering, moved into bus lane for oncoming traffic and issued with a PCN
Post by: cp8759 on February 29, 2024, 05:58:46 pm
ICO Decision Notice (https://ico.org.uk/media/action-weve-taken/decision-notices/2024/4028108/ic-258168-c5n2.pdf).
Title: Re: Bus lane PCN for havering, moved into bus lane for oncoming traffic and issued with a PCN
Post by: Hippocrates on February 02, 2024, 10:52:50 am
Case number?

2230439332 (£38) costs hearing took place and 2230533614 (£95) not contested.  Both cases DNCed. Both paid - finally.  ::) All their paperwork now fixed. 
Title: Re: Bus lane PCN for havering, moved into bus lane for oncoming traffic and issued with a PCN
Post by: cp8759 on February 01, 2024, 11:23:19 pm
Case number?
Title: Re: Bus lane PCN for havering, moved into bus lane for oncoming traffic and issued with a PCN
Post by: Hippocrates on January 31, 2024, 02:55:34 am
Good luck with your costs application.



Successful
Title: Re: Bus lane PCN for havering, moved into bus lane for oncoming traffic and issued with a PCN
Post by: cp8759 on January 30, 2024, 10:28:06 pm
Just had this from the council:

TES Ltd is the Manufacturer and Small Blue is the model.

It took a decision notice from the information commissioner to force them to disclose this, I'll post it on here once it's published.

Title: Re: Bus lane PCN for havering, moved into bus lane for oncoming traffic and issued with a PCN
Post by: cp8759 on November 26, 2023, 02:08:48 pm
Mr Harman allowed costs in a Kingston case in January but not to the representative.  Fair enough.
As above, the representative's costs are only recoverable if the appellant pays for them. Where an appellant has paid for my train tickets to attend the tribunal in person and a costs award has been made, the tribunal has always allowed the appellant to recover those costs from the authority.
Title: Re: Bus lane PCN for havering, moved into bus lane for oncoming traffic and issued with a PCN
Post by: Hippocrates on November 25, 2023, 08:16:51 pm
Mr Harman allowed costs in a Kingston case in January but not to the representative.  Fair enough.

Case reference 2220812407
Appellant Michael Jenkins
Authority Royal Borough of Kingston Upon Thames
VRM GK68LWO
Decision Cost award allowed
PCN Details
PCN QT06661986
Contravention date 01 Sep 2022
Contravention time 17:12:00
Contravention location Eden Street E/B between junctions with Union St/St James Rd & Brook St
Penalty amount GBP 130.00
Contravention Being in a bus lane
Referral date
Decision Date 05 Dec 2022
Adjudicator Andrew Harman
Appeal decision Appeal allowed
Direction cancel the Penalty Charge Notice and the Enforcement Notice.
Reasons The appellant appeared before me today represented by Mr Morgan, who sought to challenge his liability for this bus lane penalty charge on the grounds set out in his speaking note provided to me today. He relied upon Mr Stanton Dunne's decision in Davy Georges Duthieuw (2220486482). He said that Mr Stanton Dunne was considering a further bus lane appeal arising from proceedings brought by Barnet Council. Although I said at the hearing that that case had been decided that is not in fact so.

Evidence of this incident was gathered by cctv camera. Such evidence is I find only admissible before this tribunal if it is produced by a prescribed device that has been approved by the Secretary of State. The council does not appear to adduce evidence on either point. Its camera evidence is not therefore admissible, and, in its absence, I cannot be satisfied that the contravention occurred. The appeal is accordingly allowed without consideration of any of the other issues raised by either party to the proceedings.
Authority Response
Cost Details
Application by Appellant
Decision date 30 Jan 2023
Adjudicator Andrew Harman
Decision Cost award allowed
Direction -
Reasons I allowed this appeal on 05 12 22 at a personal hearing both the appellant and his representative Mr Morgan appearing before me. Mr Morgan appeared before me again today to argue his application for an order for costs and expenses against the council the grounds thereof being set out on his email of 17 12 22 supported by his witness statement of 09 12 22 and that of the appellant of the same date. The council was put on notice as to the application but has made no submissions in response thereto. Upon reserving my decision. Evidence of this incident was gathered by cctv camera. Such evidence was I found only admissible before this tribunal if it was produced by a prescribed device that had been approved by the Secretary of State. The council did not adduce evidence on either point. I am satisfied in the absence thereof and on the facts of this specific case this issue having been raised in correspondence with it that it acted wholly unreasonably in contesting the appeal. I make no other finding in respect of any of the other grounds raised by Mr Morgan. I am empowered to make an award in respect of an appellant's costs and expenses but not in respect of those incurred by a representative. I make an award in respect of the appellant's expenses in full.
Title: Re: Bus lane PCN for havering, moved into bus lane for oncoming traffic and issued with a PCN
Post by: cp8759 on November 25, 2023, 07:20:36 pm
I can't find it offhand but there is a tribunal decision by Mr Chan that the costs of a representative are not the costs of the Appellant
For reps costs to be recoverable, you have to charge the client so that they become the client's costs. One solution is to agree a fee with the client on the understanding that if costs are not recovered from the opponent, the agreement won't be enforced, @Nosy Parker does this.

As for Mr Chan thinking legal costs are never recoverable in principle (which he has stated in a few decisions) he is mistaken, he seems to think that they're not because they wouldn't be recoverable in the small claims court, but that's wrong because of CPR 27.14(g) (https://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/procedure-rules/civil/rules/part27#27.14).

Of course whether they should be recoverable in any given case is a question at the absolute discretion of the adjudicator.
Title: Re: Bus lane PCN for havering, moved into bus lane for oncoming traffic and issued with a PCN
Post by: Hippocrates on November 25, 2023, 05:22:13 pm
Good luck with your costs application.

I can't find it offhand but there is a tribunal decision by Mr Chan that the costs of a representative are not the costs of the Appellant (especially as I work pro bono - for free) and given that 95% of the time spent is by the representative I no longer regard it as worthwhile to make costs applications. The Appeal was only 127 words which did not take long to formulate so any claim would be a minimal amount. The main cost comes from considering the evidence pack, writing the skeleton argument and attending the tribunal in person, none of which happened.
Agreed.
Title: Re: Bus lane PCN for havering, moved into bus lane for oncoming traffic and issued with a PCN
Post by: mrmustard on November 25, 2023, 05:16:54 pm
Good luck with your costs application.

I can't find it offhand but there is a tribunal decision by Mr Chan that the costs of a representative are not the costs of the Appellant (especially as I work pro bono - for free) and given that 95% of the time spent is by the representative I no longer regard it as worthwhile to make costs applications. The Appeal was only 127 words which did not take long to formulate so any claim would be a minimal amount. The main cost comes from considering the evidence pack, writing the skeleton argument and attending the tribunal in person, none of which happened.
Title: Re: Bus lane PCN for havering, moved into bus lane for oncoming traffic and issued with a PCN
Post by: Hippocrates on November 25, 2023, 05:15:51 pm
To bring everyone up to date.

Havering rejected the representations on 26 October but didn't bother to mention them in the rejection, just that the vehicle was in the bus lane.

I started an Appeal on 3 November on the basis that the Notice of Rejection was inadequate and unlawful + the representations themselves were still live.

Yesterday, Havering decided to 'Do not contest' the Appeal.

Hurrah.

Require them to say why, I would.  May have something to do with my previous post. ;)

Appalling conduct in the other case and equally appalling advice given to them by some lawyer a year ago re the camera issue.

If anyone wants to listen in, please do.
Title: Re: Bus lane PCN for havering, moved into bus lane for oncoming traffic and issued with a PCN
Post by: Hippocrates on November 25, 2023, 04:52:34 pm
The PCN and EN contain grounds which do not exist!  There is a costs hearing this Tuesday at 14.00 hrs. 

@Mr Mustard:  I will e mail you.
Title: Re: Bus lane PCN for havering, moved into bus lane for oncoming traffic and issued with a PCN
Post by: mrmustard on November 25, 2023, 04:02:16 pm
To bring everyone up to date.

Havering rejected the representations on 26 October but didn't bother to mention them in the rejection, just that the vehicle was in the bus lane.

I started an Appeal on 3 November on the basis that the Notice of Rejection was inadequate and unlawful + the representations themselves were still live.

Yesterday, Havering decided to 'Do not contest' the Appeal.

Hurrah.
Title: Re: Bus lane PCN for havering, moved into bus lane for oncoming traffic and issued with a PCN
Post by: mrmustard on August 24, 2023, 12:31:53 pm
There is no time limit for responding to bus lane formal representations. Some adjudicators will find 90 days excessive and others 180, the duty at law is to use their legal powers in a manner which is fair in all the circumstances and to be reasonably expeditious.
Title: Re: Bus lane PCN for havering, moved into bus lane for oncoming traffic and issued with a PCN
Post by: maisiethecat on August 24, 2023, 12:27:53 pm
thankyou so much,   do they have same time to reply to that representation,   from memory 56 days?


Appreciate the help
Title: Re: Bus lane PCN for havering, moved into bus lane for oncoming traffic and issued with a PCN
Post by: mrmustard on August 24, 2023, 10:50:42 am
I have made the formal representations. In brief

1.   Avoiding an accident is an exemtion.

2.   The 28 day period for payment is wrongly stated.

I expect to win at the tribunal if rejected.
Title: Re: Bus lane PCN for havering, moved into bus lane for oncoming traffic and issued with a PCN
Post by: maisiethecat on August 22, 2023, 05:26:01 pm
We seem to have screenshots of the pages rather than just the images themselves, makes them smaller than would be ideal.

However, the front page is perfectly clear and it contains a fatal error.

It says that payment must be made 'not later that the last day of the period fo 28 days beginning with the date of this Enforcement Notice'.

The law, the London Local Authorities Act 1996 sets the time limit as being 28 days from service of the Enforcement Notice (in para 1(2)(c) of Schedule 1).

Probably best let me represent you (free of charge) maisiethecat. If you want that please send me a complete copy of the Enforcement Notice by email to mrmustard@zoho.com

ah thankyou very much,  I will send a copy over to you,  im scanning it with my mobile as the scanner has broken at work  :) 

will of course donate to your charity, very good one aswell.

Quick question, what stops them re issuing the enforcement notice correctly or is that not allowed by law?

thanks
Title: Re: Bus lane PCN for havering, moved into bus lane for oncoming traffic and issued with a PCN
Post by: Hippocrates on August 21, 2023, 09:55:26 pm
Indeed, and which contradicts the representations time limit: 

(3)The council may disregard any such representations which are received by them after the end of the period of 28 days beginning with the date on which the penalty charge notice or enforcement notice in question was served.
Title: Re: Bus lane PCN for havering, moved into bus lane for oncoming traffic and issued with a PCN
Post by: mrmustard on August 21, 2023, 01:10:04 pm
We seem to have screenshots of the pages rather than just the images themselves, makes them smaller than would be ideal.

However, the front page is perfectly clear and it contains a fatal error.

It says that payment must be made 'not later that the last day of the period fo 28 days beginning with the date of this Enforcement Notice'.

The law, the London Local Authorities Act 1996 sets the time limit as being 28 days from service of the Enforcement Notice (in para 1(2)(c) of Schedule 1).

Probably best let me represent you (free of charge) maisiethecat. If you want that please send me a complete copy of the Enforcement Notice by email to mrmustard@zoho.com
Title: Re: Bus lane PCN for havering, moved into bus lane for oncoming traffic and issued with a PCN
Post by: Circle87 on August 21, 2023, 11:37:39 am
I just see one page.

I am able to upload pictures for OP. Hope this helps. 3 pages.

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: Bus lane PCN for havering, moved into bus lane for oncoming traffic and issued with a PCN
Post by: Hippocrates on August 21, 2023, 11:07:39 am
I just see one page.
Title: Re: Bus lane PCN for havering, moved into bus lane for oncoming traffic and issued with a PCN
Post by: maisiethecat on August 20, 2023, 09:46:37 pm
evening all, ive uploaded the enforcement notice.  appreciate any help
hopefully this link works

https://imgur.com/a/SSOkmhQ


thanks

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: Bus lane PCN for havering, moved into bus lane for oncoming traffic and issued with a PCN
Post by: mrmustard on August 20, 2023, 09:37:29 am
Please post clears cans of all pages of the Enforcement Notice. Sometimes they contain fatal errors.
Title: Re: Bus lane PCN for havering, moved into bus lane for oncoming traffic and issued with a PCN
Post by: maisiethecat on August 19, 2023, 10:37:55 pm
i received the enforcement notice today,  £130.00 to pay now.

the council never replied to my email on why missing second page.   i have confirmation that i mailed them with a reference. 

Title: Re: Bus lane PCN for havering, moved into bus lane for oncoming traffic and issued with a PCN
Post by: maisiethecat on July 24, 2023, 11:42:19 pm
thanks, i found some details on the london tribunals website.  ive posted the link as it may help someone in the future

appreciate all the advice

https://www.londontribunals.gov.uk/eat/understanding-enforcement-process/bus-lane-pcn-enforcement-process (https://www.londontribunals.gov.uk/eat/understanding-enforcement-process/bus-lane-pcn-enforcement-process)
Title: Re: Bus lane PCN for havering, moved into bus lane for oncoming traffic and issued with a PCN
Post by: cp8759 on July 24, 2023, 11:27:50 pm
OK thankyou,  i need to google, is there a time period that happens,  and i guess once that is issued by the parking/council then the full amount is payable?
There's a six-month cut off, but it's unlikely they'll wait that long.

The EN will demand the full penalty, but if you challenge it within 14 days they will re-offer the discount, they always do to give you an incentive not to appeal.
Title: Re: Bus lane PCN for havering, moved into bus lane for oncoming traffic and issued with a PCN
Post by: maisiethecat on July 24, 2023, 11:23:10 pm
OK thankyou,   i need to google, is there a time period that happens,  and i guess once that is issued by the parking/council then the full amount is payable?
Title: Re: Bus lane PCN for havering, moved into bus lane for oncoming traffic and issued with a PCN
Post by: cp8759 on July 24, 2023, 10:50:57 pm
At this point I would just wait for the Enforcement Notice and post it up on here when you get it.
Title: Re: Bus lane PCN for havering, moved into bus lane for oncoming traffic and issued with a PCN
Post by: maisiethecat on July 24, 2023, 10:01:03 pm
hi yes there is nothing on the back of the letter which rejects my appeal to the pcn.   

Title: Re: Bus lane PCN for havering, moved into bus lane for oncoming traffic and issued with a PCN
Post by: cp8759 on July 24, 2023, 07:39:05 pm
There is no second page of the rejection letter,  im not sure if there should be but i would think they would sign off the letter wouldn't they.
Are you saying the back of the letter is blank?
Title: Re: Bus lane PCN for havering, moved into bus lane for oncoming traffic and issued with a PCN
Post by: maisiethecat on July 24, 2023, 01:51:29 pm
ive found this document on the havering website which is the  'Discretion Policy for the Enforcement and Cancellation of Penalty Charge''  I've attached the document.

on page 89 it does state the following

''MC46 - Where the motorist claims they were forced into the bus lane.

MAY ACCEPT REPRESENTATIONS
Where the CCTV footage shows an emergency vehicle approaching.
Where the CCTV footage evidences oncoming traffic forcing the driver into the bus
lane.
Where an obstruction in the road can be seen in the footage.

MAY REJECT REPRESENTATIONS
 On all other occasions

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: Bus lane PCN for havering, moved into bus lane for oncoming traffic and issued with a PCN
Post by: maisiethecat on July 24, 2023, 01:34:06 pm
ive had a google and manage to submit a query online and have asked if they can email or at least call me due to the time constraints whether there was a second page.   
Title: Re: Bus lane PCN for havering, moved into bus lane for oncoming traffic and issued with a PCN
Post by: maisiethecat on July 24, 2023, 12:40:24 pm
hi ive tried again this morning, but whatever option i choose i cannot actually speak to anybody.  I will see if i can find a email address, otherwise i will have to send a postal letter to them
Title: Re: Bus lane PCN for havering, moved into bus lane for oncoming traffic and issued with a PCN
Post by: John U.K. on July 24, 2023, 10:51:39 am
Quote
There is no second page of the rejection letter,  im not sure if there should be but i would think they would sign off the letter wouldn't they.

There would definitely be more to the rejection letter. I assume you're telephoning the number on the letter?
I can only suggest you keep trying, but others here may have better ideas.

Have you an e-mail address for them?
Title: Re: Bus lane PCN for havering, moved into bus lane for oncoming traffic and issued with a PCN
Post by: maisiethecat on July 24, 2023, 09:59:34 am
morning,  apologies for the hash of this,  ive uploaded again the pcn and the back of it and a third sheet , plus the rejection letter. 
I have tried to speak to someone at havering and its a absolute nightmare to get hold of anyone on the phone, you have to push numbers and takes you through to automated services.

https://imgur.com/a/qimhiLg (https://imgur.com/a/qimhiLg)


There is no second page of the rejection letter,  im not sure if there should be but i would think they would sign off the letter wouldn't they.
Title: Re: Bus lane PCN for havering, moved into bus lane for oncoming traffic and issued with a PCN
Post by: John U.K. on July 24, 2023, 08:26:24 am
So far you've posted
the PCN (front page only) twice (original post and post #14), over-redacted (only redact your name and address, leave reg.mark and PCN number in).

Your challenge (original post)
and

The rejection (front page only) (post#1).

Please post the all pages of the PCN (only redact your name and address, leave reg.mark and PCN number in).
and all pages of the rejection.

Your post #9, which claimed to contain the rejection but contained a pdf of the second(?) page of the PCN(?), seemed to imply that the back of the rejection was blank and there were no further pages with it. If this is the case, contact Havering asap and ask for them. If you have the remaing pages, please post them up.



Time is marching on.
Title: Re: Bus lane PCN for havering, moved into bus lane for oncoming traffic and issued with a PCN
Post by: maisiethecat on July 24, 2023, 08:09:59 am
https://imgur.com/a/ZuktQGy (https://imgur.com/a/ZuktQGy)

morning,   ive uploaded imgur hopefully this works.

thanks

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: Bus lane PCN for havering, moved into bus lane for oncoming traffic and issued with a PCN
Post by: cp8759 on July 24, 2023, 12:14:36 am
this is the response to the challenge, there was no second page or any details on the back of this one.
This is not the response to the challenge. Please read the guidance here (https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/read-this-first-before-posting-your-case!-this-section-is-for-council-tfl-dartme/) on how to post images, imgur is generally best as it had very good integration with the forum.

The registered keeper's(whoever this is) reps have been rejected, it's therefore pay or appeal.
Err no, it's not.

This is a London bus lane case so the next step is the enforcement notice, which the registered keeper needs to wait for.

But I would like to see the informal rejection while we wait.
Title: Re: Bus lane PCN for havering, moved into bus lane for oncoming traffic and issued with a PCN
Post by: maisiethecat on July 23, 2023, 10:15:14 am

'hi all, looking for advice, wife was driving in Rromford,

On the day of the alleged offence 21st April, I was driving towards the A12

The registered keeper's(whoever this is) reps have been rejected, it's therefore pay or appeal.

Absent technicalities, appeal outcomes often hang on credibility based upon first-hand accounts, in this case conditions at the time and the driver's view of events, not a bird's-eye camera.

So let's be clear about who was driving, who is the RK and who, possibly 2 people, would need to present evidence at a hearing.

wife was driving, and she is the registered keeper of the car.
Title: Re: Bus lane PCN for havering, moved into bus lane for oncoming traffic and issued with a PCN
Post by: guest179 on July 22, 2023, 10:02:34 pm

'hi all, looking for advice, wife was driving in Rromford,

On the day of the alleged offence 21st April, I was driving towards the A12

The registered keeper's(whoever this is) reps have been rejected, it's therefore pay or appeal.

Absent technicalities, appeal outcomes often hang on credibility based upon first-hand accounts, in this case conditions at the time and the driver's view of events, not a bird's-eye camera.

So let's be clear about who was driving, who is the RK and who, possibly 2 people, would need to present evidence at a hearing. 
Title: Re: Bus lane PCN for havering, moved into bus lane for oncoming traffic and issued with a PCN
Post by: Hippocrates on July 22, 2023, 01:59:17 pm
I do not see the page with the grounds still.
Title: Re: Bus lane PCN for havering, moved into bus lane for oncoming traffic and issued with a PCN
Post by: maisiethecat on July 22, 2023, 12:28:53 pm
this is the response to the challenge, there was no second page or any details on the back of this one.

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: Bus lane PCN for havering, moved into bus lane for oncoming traffic and issued with a PCN
Post by: maisiethecat on July 22, 2023, 12:28:13 pm
hi are the pcns front page

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: Bus lane PCN for havering, moved into bus lane for oncoming traffic and issued with a PCN
Post by: cp8759 on July 22, 2023, 12:52:28 am
As above, post all pages of the PCN please.

In the meantime I'll try and find out the make and model of the camera.
Title: Re: Bus lane PCN for havering, moved into bus lane for oncoming traffic and issued with a PCN
Post by: Hippocrates on July 21, 2023, 09:09:28 pm
Please show all the PCN
Title: Re: Bus lane PCN for havering, moved into bus lane for oncoming traffic and issued with a PCN
Post by: lexy on July 21, 2023, 05:55:08 pm
You can try appealing on the two minutes thing, but that's about all you've got. The video is pretty damning - she's fairly belting it right along the bus lane. I don't think you'd get anywhere with any other argument, even if those oncoming cars were in the wrong by not giving way.
Title: Re: Bus lane PCN for havering, moved into bus lane for oncoming traffic and issued with a PCN
Post by: John U.K. on July 21, 2023, 05:13:07 pm
Thread needs to be in civil-penalty-charge-notices - I've asked a mod to move.
Title: Re: Bus lane PCN for havering, moved into bus lane for oncoming traffic and issued with a PCN
Post by: maisiethecat on July 21, 2023, 03:39:59 pm
my next question is where do i go from here,  2 mins before the cut off,  oncoming traffic,  bus on the opposite lane blocking the traffic i was hoping that there would be a little bit of leniency but its a straight no. 
Title: Re: Bus lane PCN for havering, moved into bus lane for oncoming traffic and issued with a PCN
Post by: maisiethecat on July 21, 2023, 03:38:49 pm
here's the cctv of the offence


https://imgur.com/2RloXtf

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: Bus lane PCN for havering, moved into bus lane for oncoming traffic and issued with a PCN
Post by: maisiethecat on July 21, 2023, 03:37:14 pm
just to add the challenge was rejected , short version was that bus lane operates from 4-7pm and vehicle should have stopped in the correct lane and given way to the vehicles overtaking,  instead your vehicle continued to travel using a restricted bus lane during operational hours.





[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Bus lane PCN for havering, moved into bus lane for oncoming traffic and issued with a PCN
Post by: maisiethecat on July 21, 2023, 03:32:57 pm
Afternoon all I originally posted on Pepipoo but have been asked to post on here.   

''hi all, looking for advice, wife was driving in Rromford, essex (north street) she was in a lane and to the left was a bus lane, on the other side of the road it is a single lane (not a bus lane) the bus lane operates from 4pm to 7pm, my wife drive into the bus lane at 18.58pm because she could she oncoming cars passing a parked bus further up on the other side of the road (bus looks like it had indicator on to move out but doesnt in the video), the cars are entering her oncoming lane to pass the bus, so she has moved over into the bus lane.''


I asked if it was worth contesting the ticket, many said its worth a go,  so i did some forum members helped me word a challenge which was

''
On the day of the alleged offence 21st April, I was driving towards the A12 away from Romford in the appropriate driving lane. The road head was clear. A London bus was parked in the opposite traffic lane facing me.

As I approached the bus, I was suddenly confronted with a stream of traffic heading towards me on my side of the road. This traffic had obviously overtaken the bus, without ensuring that the road was clear for them to complete the manoeuvre safely.

Whilst the fault for this situation was clearly with the oncoming traffic. I had to take evasive action to avoid a head on collision.

The action I chose was to move into the bus lane to avoid oncoming traffic.

The council may consider that I had other options. For example doing an emergency stop. Or that I could have been more aware of the danger, and driven more cautiously.

Whilst my decision making could have been improved, the alleged contravention specifically is driving in a bus lane.

Notice that prior to the incident I was driving in the correct lane. I gained no advantage by driving in the bus lane, for example to facilitate undertaking, or prematurely moving over before turning left etc.

It is clear that the only reason I moved into the bus lane was to avoid an accident. Avoiding an accident is an exemption to this contravention. So this PCN should be cancelled.''





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