Free Traffic Legal Advice
Live cases legal advice => Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) => Topic started by: Jamran on July 21, 2023, 12:44:42 pm
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Well done for sticking with it, TH knew they would lose.
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Just a final update. TH withdrew themselves and stated they wouldn’t challenge it so it was cancelled
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I don't have anything to add other than that failure to date the NtO is a serious error and a procedural impropriety, and you should emphasize this in your reps. It means you have no idea when the period for paying or submitting reps ends.
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Bump
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Ok thanks. Aside from this and the points in the original reps, is there anything else I should add?
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It certainly needs to be one of the points in your representations against the NtO, because without a date how do you know when the 28 day period for submitting representations or for paying expires.
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Should I base my appeal on that?
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Hello all,
Finally recieved the NTO yesterday but there is no date of service of the notice on the letter? Also, I’m sure it’s been more than 56 days since they rejected my appeal? Is this still valid? I’ve attached the NTO and also a timeline of “key events” from their website link below
https://share.icloud.com/photos/05e1s6_iZynqw_yBfphaGFQAQ
Date of NtO is mandatory, see below: -
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2022/71/regulation/20/made
56 days only applies to response to formal representations against a Notice to Owner. There is no time limit on responding to informal representations, although anything over 3 months can be cited on the grounds of unfairness if you get to adjudication.
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It looks as if the muppets have forgotten to date the NtO. This may well be a fatal omission, despite its being dated on the council website, as date of service is reckoned as 2nd working day from date of letter..
See what the experts here say.
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Hello all,
Finally recieved the NTO yesterday but there is no date of service of the notice on the letter? Also, I’m sure it’s been more than 56 days since they rejected my appeal? Is this still valid? I’ve attached the NTO and also a timeline of “key events” from their website link below
https://share.icloud.com/photos/05e1s6_iZynqw_yBfphaGFQAQ
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It would be really useful if you could please stop cross-posting on both sites. The other site will go offline anyway in November and it would be best to keep everything in one place.
Sorry. Will do
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It would be really useful if you could please stop cross-posting on both sites. The other site will go offline anyway in November and it would be best to keep everything in one place.
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If I wait for the NTO I lose the discounted rate of £40 though?
No, as long as you make representations within 14 days of the date of issue of the NTO, the discount will be reoffered.
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If I wait for the NTO I lose the discounted rate of £40 though?
The vehicle is under my name and address
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You can't appeal to the adjudicator yet, first you need to wait for the Notice to Owner and make representations against that. If those representations are also rejected, it's only at that point that you can appeal to the adjudicator. The whole process is explained here: https://www.londontribunals.gov.uk/eat/understanding-enforcement-process/parking-penalty-charge-notice-enforcement-process
For now I would wait for the Notice to Owner, the only thing to do is check that the address on the V5C is up to date (don't guess or assume, please get it out and physically check it).
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So should bother appealing to adjudicator? Or pay off the discounted rate now?
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I agree.
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In the cancellation of PCN document, under point 6 of the compelling reasons/mitigating circumstances, it says the following:
The motorist had a valid permit or other required item for the place where the vehicle was parked but the item was not displayed at all or was displayed incorrectly
When in a place that requires a permit, scratchcard, pay & display ticket, Disabled Person's Badge or any other item to be displayed in the vehicle, that item must be displayed so that all details are clearly visible. If a CEO cannot see all the details then a PCN may be issued. It is not a defence against a PCN simply to possess an item. If the item can be produced with the representations, however, and was valid at the time of the contravention then the Council will consider using its discretion to cancel the PCN. In general, discretion will only be applied once.
This policy does not apply to multi-vehicle permits or Disabled Person's Badges if they are not visible in the vehicle as they could be in use elsewhere.
The last sentence seems to me that it is relevant to my situation?
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Traffic order: https://store.traffweb.app/towerhamlets/documents/parkmap/sched/2019%20No.57%20and%202019%20No.58%20Signed%20TMO.pdf
Map tiles: https://store.traffweb.app/towerhamlets/documents/parkmap/msched/U12_rv0_1.pdf and https://store.traffweb.app/towerhamlets/documents/parkmap/msched/V12_rv0_1.pdf
Map tile legend: https://store.traffweb.app/towerhamlets/documents/parkmap/sched/Legend_20191121_1.pdf
The latest cancellation policy we have is here (your scribbid link doesn't work): https://drive.google.com/file/d/10cD2MN7K0B8DfFH3G6GzPEybwyR0hXn4/view
For a first-time contravention we'd expect a cancellation at the NTO stage providing the representations are reasonably compelling.
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Well we normally would expect councils to cancel in these circumstances, as long as you're not a repeat offender. Have you had any PCNs cancelled in similar circumstances in the past year or two?
As long as you're the registered keeper and the V5C is up to date, there's limited risk in carrying on: as long as you challenge the NTO within 14 days of the date of issue, they'll re-offer the discount anyway.
Can you give us a link to the exact spot on google street view please? While you wait for the NTO, we might as well check the traffic order.
Here is the council's cancellation policy
https://www.scribd.com/document_downloads/direct/553208338?extension=pdf&ft=1690149908<=1690153518&show_pdf=true&user_id=90884443&uahk=syJOAnw-FDStRhC98dX6ePb1OyA
GSV of location: https://maps.app.goo.gl/jEDaLRRUVRcVhDo1A?g_st=ic
I have not had any PCN cancelled like this. This is a first.
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Well we normally would expect councils to cancel in these circumstances, as long as you're not a repeat offender. Have you had any PCNs cancelled in similar circumstances in the past year or two?
As long as you're the registered keeper and the V5C is up to date, there's limited risk in carrying on: as long as you challenge the NTO within 14 days of the date of issue, they'll re-offer the discount anyway.
Can you give us a link to the exact spot on google street view please? While you wait for the NTO, we might as well check the traffic order.
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There is no option to edit my OP.
You should see a button marked 'Modify' at the top right of your posts.
Nope. No such option I’m afraid
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There is no option to edit my OP.
You should see a button marked 'Modify' at the top right of your posts.
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There is no option to edit my OP.
Here are the unredacted images:
https://share.icloud.com/photos/0be8EX-hmcKYHdzSoSy0H-9ig
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Please read the guidance here: https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/read-this-first-before-posting-your-case!-this-section-is-for-council-tfl-dartme/
Then update the opening post with an unredacted copy of the PCN, your representation and any supporting evidence, and the rejection. Only your postal address needs to be redacted, PCN number and number plate should be left visible.
Also the council will re-offer the discount at the next stage providing representations are received by the council within 14 days, so there is limited / manageable risk in carrying on.
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Hi everyone. I parked on a P&D bay with my blue badge but it fell off the dash after I left the vehicle. As a result, I got a PCN. I did informal rep stating what had happened. Unfortunately, they rejected the rep stating “ this is not considered sufficient mitigation to warrant cancellation of this PCN”.
I was under the impression that first PCN for blue badge holders they cancel? Is this not the case? Do I have any chance of winning with adjudicator?
Here is the letter of rejection and PCN.
https://share.icloud.com/photos/0d3dXT0TxrIWuBHHBOH0SnnRw
Thank you for your help