Free Traffic Legal Advice

Live cases legal advice => Private parking tickets => Topic started by: Keeper on June 24, 2024, 10:03:00 am

Title: Re: Civil Enforcement - No permit - Sacred Heart Church Wimbledon
Post by: Keeper on September 24, 2025, 04:46:17 pm
Brilliant, thanks! I got half way through point 2 and started chuckling.

Do you think they will back down, or send me everything requested?

I have used the following email addresses for CE

office@ce-service.co.uk
Legal3@ce-service.co.uk

I've also seen that the email has been opened (possibly automatically) 1 minute after sending
Title: Re: Civil Enforcement - No permit - Sacred Heart Church Wimbledon
Post by: b789 on September 24, 2025, 12:13:49 pm
You do not use any of the forms that demand. Simply respond with the following in an email and CC yourself:

Quote
Subject: Response to your Letter of Claim Ref: [reference number]

Re: PCN at Sacred Heart Wimbledon, Edge Hill – VRM [reg] – LBC dated 04/09/2025

Dear Sirs,

1) Protocol non-compliance
Your Letter Before Claim contains insufficient detail and omits the key documents required to enable informed engagement. It fails to comply with the Pre-Action Protocol for Debt Claims (paras 3.1(a)–(d), 5.1–5.2) and the Practice Direction – Pre-Action Conduct and Protocols (PD-PAC), including the duty to exchange key documents before proceedings.

2) Documents required
Pursuant to PAPDC 5.1–5.2 and PD-PAC 6, provide in a single paginated PDF bundle:

(1) The original NtK (both sides) and all subsequent notices.
(2) The precise legal basis relied on (keeper liability under PoFA 2012 or driver liability) and strict proof of PoFA compliance, including the statutory warning and an identified period of parking.
(3) All photographs/ANPR images and full VRM [reg] in/out logs covering at least one hour either side of the material times, plus any manual checks.
(4) Contemporaneous photographs of the actual signs in situ on the material date, the full terms in readable close-ups, and a site plan showing location/number of signs and the entrance signage.
(5) An unredacted landowner contract/chain of authority showing your standing to offer contracts, issue PCNs and litigate in your own name at this site on the material date.
(6) Machine/payment records and audit logs for the relevant period (or confirmation none existed).
(7) A full breakdown of the sum claimed and the legal basis for any sums over the core PCN, identifying whether the principal is alleged consideration or damages and whether the £70 “debt recovery” add-on attracts VAT (and if so, on what basis).
(8) The name, role and regulatory status of the person with conduct of this matter.

3) Timing and hold
Given the late receipt of your LBC, confirm that the 30-day period runs from service of a compliant, document-supported LBC. In accordance with PAPDC 5.2, place the matter on hold for a minimum of 30 days after you have supplied the above.

4) Next steps
Upon receipt of a compliant Letter Before Claim and the requested documents I will seek advice and provide a substantive response within 30 days. If you issue proceedings prematurely, I will apply for a stay and appropriate sanctions for non-compliance, relying on Webb Resolutions v Waller Needham & Green [2012] EWHC 3529 (Ch), Daejan Investments v Park West Club (Part 20) Buxton Associates [2003] EWHC 2872, and Charles Church Developments v Stent Foundations & Peter Dann [2007] EWHC 855, together with PD-PAC paras 13, 15(b)–(c) and 16 and PAPDC 7.2.

5) Address for service & data accuracy
Record the address after my signature as my address for service. If you hold any other address, rectify your records and confirm erasure of incorrect data.

Yours faithfully,

[Your name]

[Address for service]
Title: Re: Civil Enforcement - No permit - Sacred Heart Church Wimbledon
Post by: Keeper on September 23, 2025, 07:43:04 pm
Hello! Hope all are doing well!

Well here we are, nearly a year since the last update and after ignoring several debt collection service letters, I'm now the lucky recipient of a Letter before action from CE.

Letter attached (note that it's dated 04 September but received just a few days ago, probably around the 18th.

They've also included Annex 1 from here https://www.justice.gov.uk/documents/debt-pap.pdf and a Press Summary of two cases: Cavendish Square Holding v Talal El Makdessi and ParkingEye ltd v Beavis as well as some paperwork to fill in if one is unable to pay.

https://www.justice.gov.uk/documents/debt-pap.pdf

Letter: (not sure how to get it to embed?)

https://imgur.com/a/qC1ILkW
Title: Re: Civil Enforcement - No permit - Sacred Heart Church Wimbledon
Post by: DWMB2 on October 09, 2024, 08:46:21 pm
As I noted on a previous thread, if you move house before the matter is resolved, make sure you tell CEL your new address for service.
Title: Re: Civil Enforcement - No permit - Sacred Heart Church Wimbledon
Post by: Keeper on October 09, 2024, 08:28:05 pm
Absolutely.

I have had a similar experience with a different operator, guided expertly by those on this forum and they pulled out at the last minute.

Quite ready to receive (and ignore) debt collection letters.

So for now, wait till the actual letter of claim - got it!

Many thanks as always
Title: Re: Civil Enforcement - No permit - Sacred Heart Church Wimbledon
Post by: b789 on October 09, 2024, 11:12:43 am
Fairly typical and fails to fully address the points raised in your POPLA submission. POPLA have to justify their paymasters and do so by obfuscation in their responses, as you can see.

Nothing to worry about. This has no bearing on anything going forward and you are not bound by the POPLA decision. Don't pay CEL.

For the time being, you now have to ignore all the debt collector letters they are going to send you. Whilst these may appear to be scary, they are in fact powerless to do anything and are simply employed on a no-win, no-fee basis by the operator and use words such as "bailiff" and "CCJ" to try and scare low-hanging fruit on the gullible tree into pooping their pants and paying up. Never, ever engage with a debt collector. You can safely ignore them. You should use their letters to line the bottom of a cat litter tray.

What you are waiting for is to see if when they send a Letter of Claim (LoC). They hope that the initiation of litigation will be another step in scaring the gullible into paying up. Of course, you are not gullible as you are here receiving well worn advice on how to deal with these scams.

Even if the do escalate to a claim, that is a good thing as the county court is the ultimate dispute resolution service. Not that most claims ever reach a hearing when we deal with them. The majority of (over 99%) them end up being discontinued once they realise that you intend to go all the way and they know they are in fact on shaky ground and so go off in search of lower-hanging fruit to go pick on. Most of the few other claims that aren't discontinued are struck out due to procedural deficiencies in the actual claim.

In the remote, worst case scenario, should you be on of the less than one percenters who actually make it to a hearing and are unsuccessful, there is no danger of a CCJ.

So, are you aggrieved enough to want to fight them on this?
Title: Re: Civil Enforcement - No permit - Sacred Heart Church Wimbledon
Post by: Keeper on October 09, 2024, 09:20:04 am
POPLA Appeal has come back - unsuccessful (explanation below for those interested) - what should be my next steps?

Many thanks!


Quote
Assessor summary of operator case
The operator has issued the PCN because the vehicle was parked on the site and failed to obtain a permit during the notified period.


Assessor summary of your case
The appellant has raised the following grounds of appeal: • The signage on the site does not comply with Section 19.3 and 19.4 of the British Parking Association (BPA) Code of Practice. • The evidence provided by the operator has been tampered with. • The operator has not provided adequate evidence of their authority to issue parking charges at this location. In the comments the appellant has advised the following: • The confirmation of appointment is not a contract. • The images provided by the operator show different timestamps which indicates potential tampering. • The signage does not comply with Section 19.4 of the BPA Code of Practice. The appellant has provided a document detailing their appeal.


Assessor supporting rational for decision
When assessing an appeal POPLA considers if the operator has issued the parking charge notice correctly and if the driver has complied with the terms and conditions for the use of the car park. The operator has provided evidence of the vehicle parked on the site for one hour and 11 minutes on the day in question. The data from the permit system shows that the vehicle had not been registered for a permit on the day of the incident. In this case, it is not clear who the driver of the appellant’s vehicle is, so I must consider the Protection of Freedoms Act (PoFA) 2012, as the operator issued the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) to the keeper of the vehicle. The operator has provided me with a copy of the notice to keeper sent to the appellant. I have reviewed the notice to keeper against the relevant sections of PoFA 2012 and I am satisfied that it is compliant. I will therefore be assessing keeper liability. The appellant has advised that the signage on the site is not compliant. The British Parking Association (BPA) has a Code of Practice which set the standards its parking operators need to comply with. Section 19.3 of the code states that signs must be placed throughout the car park so that drivers have the chance to review the terms and conditions. The code confirms that these signs must be conspicuous and legible and written in intelligible language so that they are easy to see read and understand. The operator has provided multiple images of the signs within the car park and after reviewing these, I am satisfied that there are plenty of signs located within the car park and that these signs meet the requirements of section 19.3 of the Code of Practice.The signage clearly advises that a permit is required to park and failing to obtain one is a breach of the terms. Further to the appellant’s statement that the operator’s evidence has been tampered with I am satisfied that the evidence the operator has provided is correct and has not been tampered with. The fact that there are different timestamps on some of the images does not invalidate the PCN in any way. Section 19.4 of the Code of Practice states that if parking operators intend to use the keeper liability provisions in Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act (PoFA) 2012, the signs must give adequate notice of the charge. I have reviewed the signs and I am satisfied that the charge amount is clear as it has been highlighted to draw motorist’s attention to the amount. The appellant has questioned landowner authority .I note the appellant’s comments and I refer to Section 7 of the British Parking Association(BPA) Code of Practice which states in 7 .1 “If you do not own the land on which you are carrying out parking management, you must have the written authorisation of the landowner (or their appointed agent). The written confirmation must be given before you can start operating on the land in question and give you the authority to carry out all the aspects of car park management for the site that you are responsible for. In particular, it must say that the landowner (or their appointed agent) requires you to keep to the Code of Practice and that you have the authority to pursue outstanding parking charges. 7.2 If the operator wishes to take legal action on any outstanding parking charges, they must ensure that they have the written authority of the landowner (or their appointed agent) prior to legal action being taken. 7.3 The written authorisation must also set out: a the definition of the land on which you may operate, so that the boundaries of the land can be clearly defined b any conditions or restrictions on parking control and enforcement operations, including any restrictions on hours of operation c any conditions or restrictions on the types of vehicles that may, or may not, be subject to parking control and enforcement d who has the responsibility for putting up and maintaining signs e the definition of the services provided by each party to the agreement”. The operator has provided a confirmation of appointment document and I am satisfied that the operator has the authority to issue PCN’s on this site. The operator does not need to provide a full copy of the full contract as it may contain commercially sensitive information. The evidence provided in relation to this appeal meets the criteria POPLA requires, and therefore I am satisfied that the operator has sufficient authority at the site on the date of the parking event. After considering the evidence from both parties the vehicle was parked on the site and failed to obtain a permit during the notified period and therefore did not comply with the terms and conditions of the site. Based on the evidence provided, I am satisfied the parking charge has been issued correctly therefore, I must refuse the appeal.
Title: Re: Civil Enforcement - No permit - Sacred Heart Church Wimbledon
Post by: Keeper on August 06, 2024, 05:07:52 pm
It's just a comment box - can't upload or attach anything so mentioning is the best I can do...

I meant did you highlight the doctored photos in your original appeal? If you didn't, you must try and describe what is obviously an alteration of the evidential photo which is in breach of the CoP.

It may need painting out to the local priest that the landowner is jointly and severally liable for the actions of their agents. Maybe there's a religious metaphor that can be used.  :o

Yes I did highlight the doctored photos:

Quote
Evidence Tampering by the operator
The operator has submitted as supposed evidence a photograph of the sign that is alleged to have formed the contract. The BPA CoP specifically Staes at 21.5a as follows:
Use of photographic evidence: Photographic evidence must not be used by you as the basis for issuing a parking charge unless: b) the images bear an accurate time and date stamp applied at the point the picture was taken;

It is obvious from the photograph above, provided by the operator, that it has been tampered with and altered. There are two different timestamps, one of which has, without a doubt, been added after the point the picture was taken. Additionally, in section 21.5a it states:
Alteration of photographic evidence: You must not digitally or by other means alter images used as photographic evidence other than: e) to blur faces or the VRMs of other vehicles in the image in accordance with your GDPR obligations; or f) to enhance the image of the VRM for clarity, but not to alter the letters and numbers displayed.
It is obvious that this breach of the BPA CoP must invalidate the PCN as it has been issued incorrectly.

Maybe there's a religious metaphor that can be used.  :o
"He who is without sin can cast the first Parking Charge Notice"

Something about flocks and who thou leaves in charge of thy sacred land... I don't think the argument that CEL are agents of the Lord will fly though!
Title: Re: Civil Enforcement - No permit - Sacred Heart Church Wimbledon
Post by: DWMB2 on August 06, 2024, 04:53:12 pm
Maybe there's a religious metaphor that can be used.  :o
"He who is without sin can cast the first Parking Charge Notice"
Title: Re: Civil Enforcement - No permit - Sacred Heart Church Wimbledon
Post by: b789 on August 06, 2024, 04:28:23 pm
It's just a comment box - can't upload or attach anything so mentioning is the best I can do...

I meant did you highlight the doctored photos in your original appeal? If you didn't, you must try and describe what is obviously an alteration of the evidential photo which is in breach of the CoP.

It may need painting out to the local priest that the landowner is jointly and severally liable for the actions of their agents. Maybe there's a religious metaphor that can be used.  :o
Title: Re: Civil Enforcement - No permit - Sacred Heart Church Wimbledon
Post by: Keeper on August 06, 2024, 03:50:39 pm
It's just a comment box - can't upload or attach anything so mentioning is the best I can do...

On the landowner front I spoke to the Archdiocese who confirmed that the Parish Priest should be able to do this so I have no idea why he was reluctant. A further email may be in order...
Title: Re: Civil Enforcement - No permit - Sacred Heart Church Wimbledon
Post by: b789 on August 06, 2024, 03:28:20 pm
As long as you point out in your response, any of your original points that have not been rebutted or answered, it will be good to go. Did you highlight the doctored photos? Simply mentioning them is not enough.
Title: Re: Civil Enforcement - No permit - Sacred Heart Church Wimbledon
Post by: Keeper on August 06, 2024, 03:01:20 pm
Bumping as I think I need to submit this by tomorrow or latest Thursday.

Is there anything that anyone thinks I should add or shall I submit as above?
Title: Re: Civil Enforcement - No permit - Sacred Heart Church Wimbledon
Post by: Keeper on August 05, 2024, 11:34:41 pm
How's this for a response?

I am writing to provide comments on the response submitted by Civil Enforcement Ltd (CEL) regarding my appeal against the parking charge issued on 4th June 2024. I maintain that the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) should be cancelled for the reasons outlined below:

Confirmation of Appointment is Not a Contract:
The "Confirmation of Appointment" provided by CEL does not constitute a valid contract. It fails to demonstrate CEL's authority to issue and enforce parking charges at Sacred Heart Church Wimbledon. CEL must provide a full, contemporaneous, and unredacted copy of their contract with the landowner, including specifics such as the definition of the land, restrictions on parking control and enforcement operations, and the duration of their authority. The provided document lacks these details and does not comply with BPA Code of Practice, Section 7.

Evidence Tampering and Inaccurate Photographic Evidence:
CEL's photographic evidence shows different timestamps, indicating potential tampering. The BPA Code of Practice (Section 21.5a) states that photographic evidence must not be altered except for GDPR compliance or to enhance the image of the VRM for clarity. The presence of two different timestamps suggests that the images were altered after they were taken, breaching the BPA Code of Practice and undermining the credibility of CEL's evidence.

Inadequate Signage:

Visibility and Legibility: The signage at Sacred Heart Church Wimbledon is not sufficiently prominent or clear. My photographs show that the signs are hard to read, especially in low light conditions, and are not visible from a distance.
Clear and Prominent Charges: CEL's signage fails to meet the standard set by ParkingEye Ltd v Beavis [2015] UKSC 67. The £100 charge is buried within a lot of text, reducing its visibility and the likelihood that a driver would notice and understand the charge upon entering the car park.
Conclusion:
Given the inadequate signage, the lack of a valid contractual agreement between CEL and the landowner, and the evidence tampering, I respectfully request that POPLA upholds my appeal and cancels the parking charge issued by Civil Enforcement Ltd.

Thank you for considering my comments.
Title: Re: Civil Enforcement - No permit - Sacred Heart Church Wimbledon
Post by: b789 on August 01, 2024, 09:50:54 am
So they haven’t produced an unredacted copy of the contract. The “Confirmation of Appointment” document is not a copy of a contract and appears to be something thrown together and is unsigned. It does not show any contract flowing from the landowner through their agent to the operator.

Highlight this in your response and point out that anyone could have put that together.

Whatever POPLA decides makes no difference. You won’t be paying these scammers.
Title: Re: Civil Enforcement - No permit - Sacred Heart Church Wimbledon
Post by: DWMB2 on August 01, 2024, 09:39:08 am
presumably there's no additional opportunity for me to add further arguments?
You cannot use this space to raise additional points of appeal, those should have been made in your POPLA appeal. This space is used to draw attention to any parts of their evidence pack that support your case, any points they have failed to address, etc.
Title: Re: Civil Enforcement - No permit - Sacred Heart Church Wimbledon
Post by: Keeper on August 01, 2024, 08:49:32 am
My POPLA appeal was virtually word for word the version in one of your posts, see my final pdf here (https://jmp.sh/gf9VgIWb)

I got in touch with the Residents association who put me in touch with the Church who put me in touch with the Parish Priest of the particular church who told me that I should appeal to Creative. I will also have a look to see if there's anyone I can speak to at the Roman Catholic Archdiocese of Southwark - I did not realise this was the landowner till I saw the contract.

The document at the end of the pdf in previous post has the details of the Parish Priest redacted BY ME - it didn't feel fair to share his name / details online but then again, these are probably public anyway.

No comment on evidence tampering.

When you say 'operator response' it is just a 10,000 character space to provide comments on what has been uploaded by Civil Enforcement - presumably there's no additional opportunity for me to add further arguments?
Title: Re: Civil Enforcement - No permit - Sacred Heart Church Wimbledon
Post by: b789 on July 31, 2024, 08:30:52 pm
Obviously the landowner is the Roman Catholic Archdiocese of Southwark. Who did you contact to try and get the PCN a cancelled?

The “Confirmation of Appointment” is not a copy of the contract. It is a document that you or I could reproduce on a whim. Did you include something like this in your POPLA appeal:

Quote
The operator is also put to strict proof, by means of contemporaneous and unredacted evidence, of a chain of authority flowing from the landholder of the "relevant land" to the operator. It is not accepted that the operator has adhered to the landholder's definitions, exemptions, grace period, hours of operation, etc. and any instructions to cancel charges due to complaints. There is no evidence that the freeholder authorises this operator to issue parking charges or what the land enforcement boundary and start/expiry dates are, nor whether this operator has standing to enforce such charges in their own name rather than a bare licence to act as an agent ‘on behalf of’ the landowner.
The operator is put to strict proof of full compliance with the BPA Code of Practice as this operator does not have proprietary interest in the “relevant land” then I require that they produce an unredacted copy of the contract with the landowner.
The contract and any 'site agreement' or 'User Manual' setting out details including exemptions - such as any 'genuine customer' or 'genuine resident' exemptions or any site occupier's 'right of veto' charge cancellation rights - is key evidence to define what this operator is authorised to do and any circumstances where the landowner/firms on site in fact have a right to cancellation of a charge. It cannot be assumed, just because an agent is contracted to merely put some signs up and issue Parking Charge Notices, that the agent is also authorised to make contracts with all or any category of visiting drivers and/or to enforce the charge in court in their own name (legal action regarding land use disputes generally being a matter for a landowner only). Witness statements are not sound evidence of the above, often being pre-signed, generic documents not even identifying the case in hand or even the site rules.
A witness statement might in some cases be accepted by POPLA but in this case I
suggest it is unlikely to sufficiently evidence the definition of the services provided by each party to the agreement. Nor would it define vital information such as charging days/times, any exemption clauses, grace periods (which I believe may be longer than the bare minimum times set out in the BPA CoP) and basic information such as the land boundary and bays where enforcement applies/does not apply.
Not forgetting evidence of the various restrictions which the landowner has authorised can give rise to a charge and, of course, how much the landowner
authorises this agent to charge (which cannot be assumed to be the sum on a sign
because template private parking terms and sums have been known not to match
the actual landowner agreement). Paragraph 7 of the BPA Code of Practice defines
the mandatory requirements and I put this operator to strict proof of full
compliance:
7.2 If the operator wishes to take legal action on any outstanding parking
charges, they must ensure that they have the written authority of the
landowner (or their appointed agent) prior to legal action being taken.
7.3 The written authorisation must also set out:
(a) the definition of the land on which you may operate, so that the
boundaries of the land can be clearly defined
(b) any conditions or restrictions on parking control and enforcement
operations, including any restrictions on hours of operation
(c) any conditions or restrictions on the types of vehicles that may, or may
not, be subject to parking control and enforcement
(d) who has the responsibility for putting up and maintaining signs
(e) the definition of the services provided by each party to the agreement

Point this out in your response to the operator.

What about the photos that have obviously been altered that have different “added” timestamps? Was that raised in the original appeal? Highlight it in your operator response.
Title: Re: Civil Enforcement - No permit - Sacred Heart Church Wimbledon
Post by: Keeper on July 31, 2024, 06:30:55 pm
Here is the response  (https://jmp.sh/s/Zo8R6pFwyzj3B7yjMBj5)- they also included my correspondence with them which has already been posted here so I removed those pages.

The last page is the contract that was requested and it seems like Creative Parking has sub-contracted to Civil Enforcement or something like that? In any case the signatories details (which I've redacted) are the same person that I originally reached out to who said, "our parking system in the church car park is managed by Creative Parking, not by the parish.  Any appeal must go directly to them, as we do not have the ability to cancel any PCNs.

CE also included this summary of the Beavis case (https://jmp.sh/tvm3TeXH) and this set of images and a plan (https://jmp.sh/s/QfEqjKneLqlyKCdL4phU) for the site.


I now have 7 days to submit up to 10,000 characters of comments on their evidence...
Title: Re: Civil Enforcement - No permit - Sacred Heart Church Wimbledon
Post by: DWMB2 on July 31, 2024, 11:31:16 am
I'm figuring out a way to upload the rather lengthy pdf - please bear with.
Dropbox/Google Drive work well - be careful to redact any of your personal details that might be in the document.
Title: Re: Civil Enforcement - No permit - Sacred Heart Church Wimbledon
Post by: Keeper on July 31, 2024, 11:27:14 am
There has been a response, which I have uploaded here plus a myriad of images. Would the fact that I have an email from the chair of the residents' association saying that other attendees were also caught out, be of any use?

I'm figuring out a way to upload the rather lengthy pdf - please bear with.
Title: Re: Civil Enforcement - No permit - Sacred Heart Church Wimbledon
Post by: Keeper on July 24, 2024, 07:35:57 pm
Excellent, I will do this and then report back.

Title: Re: Civil Enforcement - No permit - Sacred Heart Church Wimbledon
Post by: b789 on July 23, 2024, 04:51:07 pm
Add another section to the POPLA appeal titled "Evidence tampering by the operator".

Expand on it by saying that the operator has submitted as supposed evidence a photograph of the sign that is alleged to have formed the contract. The BPA CoP specifically Staes at 21.5a as follows:

Use of photographic evidence

Photographic evidence must not be used by you as the basis for issuing a parking charge unless:

b) the images bear an accurate time and date stamp applied at the point the picture was taken;

(https://i.imgur.com/FWzaiQ1.png)

It is obvious from the photograph above, provided by the operator, that it has been tampered with and altered. There are two different timestamps, one of which has, without a doubt, been added after the point the picture was taken.

Additionally, in section 21.5a it states:

Alteration of photographic evidence

You must not digitally or by other means alter images used as photographic evidence other than:
e) to blur faces or the VRMs of other vehicles in the image in accordance with your GDPR obligations; or

f) to enhance the image of the VRM for clarity, but not to alter the letters and numbers displayed.

It is obvious that this breach of the BPA CoP must invalidate the PCN as it has been issued incorrectly.

Or, something along the lines of the above.
Title: Re: Civil Enforcement - No permit - Sacred Heart Church Wimbledon
Post by: Keeper on July 23, 2024, 04:31:54 pm
Apologies, I completely missed your question about the image.

That image was attached with the rejection of appeal later.

I've copied it again here, uncropped. As far as I can see, the tampering if any is that there are two timestamps one hour apart... only one can be correct.

They are also from May whereas the incident was in June - not sure if this is relevant.

Thanks very much and apologies again for the delayed response - I've not gotten around to sending off the POPLA appeal yet - I will wait to hear if there are any further changes you'd suggest...

https://imgur.com/kUDMSSL
Title: Re: Civil Enforcement - No permit - Sacred Heart Church Wimbledon
Post by: b789 on July 15, 2024, 01:57:11 pm
In terms of POPLA appeals, the burden of proof rests with the operator to provide clear evidence of the contravention it alleges occurred, and consequently, that it issued the PCN correctly.

POPLA Appeal Argument: Inadequate Signage and Lack of Landowner Authority by Civil Enforcement Ltd at Sacred Heart Church, Wimbledon

Appeal Summary:

The burden of proof rests with the operator, Civil Enforcement Ltd (CEL), to provide clear evidence of the alleged contravention and to demonstrate that the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) was issued correctly. The signage at Sacred Heart Church Wimbledon fails to meet the necessary standards of clarity, prominence, and legibility as set out in the British Parking Association (BPA) Code of Practice (CoP) and the Protection of Freedoms Act (PoFA) 2012. Furthermore, CEL has not provided adequate evidence of their authority to issue parking charges at this location. Therefore, the PCN should be cancelled.

1. Inadequate Signage:

The appellant contests that the signage at Sacred Heart Church, Wimbledon, is neither prominent, clear, nor legible from all parking spaces and there is insufficient notice of the sum of the parking charge.

2. BPA Code of Practice Compliance:

When evaluating the adequacy of the signage, it is essential to consider the minimum standards set out in the BPA Code of Practice:

- Section 19.3 of the BPA Code of Practice states: “You must place signs containing the specific parking terms throughout the site, so that drivers are given the chance to read them at the time of parking or leaving their vehicle… Signs must be conspicuous and legible, and written in intelligible language, so that they are easy to see, read and understand.”

The signage installed by Civil Enforcement Ltd (CEL) at Sacred Heart Church, Wimbledon, fails to comply with the British Parking Association (BPA) Code of Practice, specifically Section 19, which requires that signs must be clear and legible so that they are easy to see, read, and understand. The key issues with the signage are as follows:

a. Visibility and Legibility:

 
- The signage is not sufficiently prominent, especially upon entering the car park. The excessive amount of text and the way it is presented make it difficult for drivers to quickly comprehend the terms and conditions.

  - The signage fails to adequately attract attention, particularly in low light conditions. Photographs taken at various times of the day demonstrate that the signs are hard to read and not clearly visible from a distance.

(https://i.imgur.com/Vw8QEGy.jpg)

b. Clear and Prominent Charges:

 
- As established in ParkingEye Ltd v Beavis [2015] UKSC 67, the signage must be clear and prominent to ensure that drivers are aware of the charges. In the Beavis case, the charge was prominently displayed and easily noticed by drivers. In contrast, the CEL signage does not prominently display the £100 charge.

The £100 parking charge is not prominently displayed. The charge is buried within a lot of text, reducing its visibility and the likelihood that a driver would see and understand the charge upon entering the car park.

(https://i.imgur.com/PCrTa89.jpg)

3. Protection of Freedoms Act (PoFA) Compliance:

In addition to the BPA Code of Practice, PoFA 2012 also discusses the clarity needed to make a motorist aware of the parking charge. Specifically, it requires that the driver is given “adequate notice” of the charge.

- PoFA defines “adequate notice” as follows:

 
- “(3) For the purposes of sub-paragraph (2) “adequate notice” means notice given by:
   
- (a) the display of one or more notices in accordance with any applicable requirements prescribed in regulations under paragraph 12 for, or for purposes including, the purposes of sub-paragraph (2); or
    - (b) where no such requirements apply, the display of one or more notices which:
     
- (i) specify the sum as the charge for unauthorized parking; and
      - (ii) are adequate to bring the charge to the notice of drivers who park vehicles on the relevant land.”

Even if PoFA does not apply, this standard is reasonable for an independent assessment of the signage at this location.

4. Assessment Against POFA and BPA Requirements:

Having evaluated the signage at Sacred Heart Church Wimbledon against the requirements of Section 19 of the BPA Code of Practice and PoFA, it is evident that the signage fails to provide adequate notice of the parking charge. It does not bring the parking charge to the attention of the motorist, which is necessary to form a valid contract.

5. No Evidence of Landowner Authority:

The operator, Civil Enforcement Ltd, has not provided evidence that it has the authority to issue parking charges on behalf of the landowner at Sacred Heart Church, Wimbledon. The BPA Code of Practice (Section 7) stipulates that operators must have a written agreement with the landowner that establishes their authority. CEL is put to strict proof, by means of contemporaneous and unredacted evidence, of a chain of authority flowing from the landholder of the "relevant land" to the operator.

It is not accepted that the operator has adhered to the landholder's definitions, exemptions, grace period, hours of operation, etc., and any instructions to cancel charges due to complaints. There is no evidence that the freeholder authorizes this operator to issue parking charges or what the land enforcement boundary and start/expiry dates are, nor whether this operator has standing to enforce such charges in their own name rather than a bare license to act as an agent ‘on behalf of’ the landowner.

As this operator does not have a proprietary interest in the “relevant land,” I require that they produce an unredacted copy of the contract with the landowner. The contract and any 'site agreement' or 'User Manual' setting out details including exemptions - such as any 'genuine customer' or 'genuine resident' exemptions or any site occupier's 'right of veto' charge cancellation rights - is key evidence to define what this operator is authorized to do and any circumstances where the landowner in fact has a right to cancellation of a charge.

It cannot be assumed, just because an agent is contracted to merely put up some signs and issue Parking Charge Notices, that the agent is also authorized to make contracts with all or any category of visiting drivers and/or to enforce the charge in court in their own name (legal action regarding land use disputes generally being a matter for a landowner only). Witness statements are not sound evidence of the above, often being pre-signed, generic documents not even identifying the case in hand or even the site rules.

A witness statement might in some cases be accepted by POPLA, but in this case, it is unlikely to sufficiently evidence the definition of the services provided by each party to the agreement. Nor would it define vital information such as charging days/times, any exemption clauses, grace periods (which I believe may be longer than the bare minimum times set out in the BPA Code of Practice), and basic information such as the land boundary and bays where enforcement applies/does not apply.

Not forgetting evidence of the various restrictions which the landowner has authorized can give rise to a charge and, of course, how much the landowner authorizes this agent to charge (which cannot be assumed to be the sum on a sign because template private parking terms and sums have been known not to match the actual landowner agreement).

Paragraph 7 of the BPA Code of Practice defines the mandatory requirements, and I put this operator to strict proof of full compliance:

- 7.2 If the operator wishes to take legal action on any outstanding parking charges, they must ensure that they have the written authority of the landowner (or their appointed agent) prior to legal action being taken.

- 7.3 The written authorisation must also set out:

 
- (a) the definition of the land on which you may operate, so that the boundaries of the land can be clearly defined

  - (b) any conditions or restrictions on parking control and enforcement operations, including any restrictions on hours of operation

  - (c) any conditions or restrictions on the types of vehicles that may, or may not, be subject to parking control and enforcement

  - (d) who has the responsibility for putting up and maintaining signs

  - (e) the definition of the services provided by each party to the agreement

Conclusion:

Due to the inadequate signage at Sacred Heart Church, Wimbledon, which fails to comply with the BPA Code of Practice and does not provide clear and prominent notice of the parking charge, the PCN cannot be considered enforceable. Additionally, Civil Enforcement Ltd has not provided evidence of their authority to issue parking charges at this location. The signage does not meet the necessary standards to form a contract by conduct with the driver. Therefore, the PCN issued at this location should be canceled.


This expanded narrative now includes a comprehensive challenge to the operator’s authority, emphasising the need for unredacted evidence of their contractual rights and responsibilities as mandated by the BPA Code of Practice.
Title: Re: Civil Enforcement - No permit - Sacred Heart Church Wimbledon
Post by: b789 on July 15, 2024, 12:53:47 pm
As already pointed out, pre-estimate of loss is a non-runner. However, the points about the signage need to be expanded on, as does the landholder authority.

I am also interested in this image you posted earlier on:

(https://i.imgur.com/wdrK0El.jpeg)

Is this a file image from the operators website? If so, it is evidence that they have tampered with the images because the timestamp cannot be contemporaneous and must have been added later. Look at the image and one of the photos already has a timestamp on it but the two images have a second timestamp superimposed.
Title: Re: Civil Enforcement - No permit - Sacred Heart Church Wimbledon
Post by: DWMB2 on July 15, 2024, 12:23:19 pm
No Genuine Pre-Estimate of Loss:
The parking charge does not represent a genuine pre-estimate of loss. The charge of £100 is disproportionate to any potential loss incurred by the landowner or operator. The purpose of the charge should be to compensate for the actual loss caused by the parking contravention. Given that the car park was not full, the incident occurred at night, and parking at the Sacred Heart Church is not normally charged, the charge is punitive and unenforceable. There was no financial loss suffered by the landowner in this instance, making the charge unjustifiable.
The Beavis case largely (but not entirely) killed off this point - I'd leave it out here.
Title: Re: Civil Enforcement - No permit - Sacred Heart Church Wimbledon
Post by: b789 on July 15, 2024, 12:20:40 pm
Please show us the photographic evidence you intend to use in your appeal.
Title: Re: Civil Enforcement - No permit - Sacred Heart Church Wimbledon
Post by: Keeper on July 15, 2024, 09:33:43 am
Thanks,

How's this?

______________________

Dear POPLA Adjudicator,

I am writing to appeal against the parking charge issued by Civil Enforcement Ltd (CEL) at Sacred Heart Church Wimbledon on 4th June 2024. I am contesting this charge on the following grounds:

Background:
On 4th June 2024, I attended a community meeting at Sacred Heart Church Wimbledon. Several other attendees also received parking fines on this occasion, highlighting a widespread issue with the clarity and visibility of the parking signage at this location. The signage is inadequate in communicating the terms and conditions to drivers, resulting in multiple penalties for individuals who were unaware of the specific parking restrictions.

Inadequate Signage:
The signage at Sacred Heart Church Wimbledon fails to comply with the British Parking Association (BPA) Code of Practice, specifically Section 19 which requires that signs must be clear and legible so that they are easy to see, read, and understand. The signage at the site is not sufficiently prominent, and the terms and conditions are not clearly visible upon entering the car park. As established in the case of ParkingEye Ltd v Beavis [2015] UKSC 67, the signage must be clear and prominent to ensure that the driver is aware of the charges. The signs at Sacred Heart Church are not adequately visible, especially in low light conditions, and fail to convey the necessary information to drivers. Attached are photographs taken at various times of the day showing that the signs are difficult to read and not adequately visible from a distance.

Lack of Prominent Notice of Charges:
Referring to the principle laid out by Lord Denning in J Spurling Ltd v Bradshaw [1956] EWCA Civ 3, known as the "red hand rule," the more unreasonable a clause, the greater the notice which must be given. The parking charge of £100 is substantial, and therefore, it requires clear and prominent notice. The signs at this location do not meet this standard, as they fail to effectively communicate the penalty charge. The terms should have been more prominently displayed, especially given the high charge.

Comparison with Beavis Case Signage:
The signage at Sacred Heart Church does not compare favourably with the signage in the Beavis case, which was deemed adequate by the Supreme Court. In the Beavis case, the charge was prominently displayed with clear terms, whereas in this instance, the signage is unclear and not sufficiently visible to the driver upon entering and parking. This failure to provide clear signage means that the parking charge cannot be considered enforceable.

No Evidence of Landowner Authority:
Civil Enforcement Ltd has not provided evidence that it has the authority to issue parking charges on behalf of the landowner at Sacred Heart Church Wimbledon. The BPA Code of Practice (Section 7) stipulates that operators must have a written agreement with the landowner that establishes their authority. I request that CEL provides a full, contemporaneous, and unredacted copy of their contract with the landowner, which authorises them to issue parking charges.

No Genuine Pre-Estimate of Loss:
The parking charge does not represent a genuine pre-estimate of loss. The charge of £100 is disproportionate to any potential loss incurred by the landowner or operator. The purpose of the charge should be to compensate for the actual loss caused by the parking contravention. Given that the car park was not full, the incident occurred at night, and parking at the Sacred Heart Church is not normally charged, the charge is punitive and unenforceable. There was no financial loss suffered by the landowner in this instance, making the charge unjustifiable.

Photographic Evidence:
I have included photographic evidence of the signage at the Sacred Heart Church from various angles and distances. These photos clearly show that the terms and conditions are not adequately conveyed to drivers, particularly in low light conditions or from typical viewing distances.

Lack of Contractual Agreement:
Due to the inadequate signage, there can be no contractual agreement between myself and Civil Enforcement Ltd. For a contract to be formed, the terms must be clearly communicated, and in this case, they were not. Therefore, I cannot be held liable for the charge.

Conclusion:
Given the above points, I respectfully request that POPLA upholds my appeal and cancels the parking charge issued by Civil Enforcement Ltd. The signage at the Sacred Heart Church Wimbledon is insufficient to meet the standards required for forming a contractual agreement and for clearly communicating the parking charges.

Thank you for considering my appeal.

Yours sincerely,
Title: Re: Civil Enforcement - No permit - Sacred Heart Church Wimbledon
Post by: b789 on July 12, 2024, 01:05:27 am
Lord Dennings “Red hand rule”:

(https://i.imgur.com/PCrTa89.jpeg)

J Spurling Ltd v Bradshaw [1956] EWCA Civ 3 is an English contract law and English property law case on exclusion clauses and bailment. It is best known for Denning LJ's "red hand rule" comment, where he said, I quite agree that the more unreasonable a clause is, the greater the notice which must be given of it.
Title: Re: Civil Enforcement - No permit - Sacred Heart Church Wimbledon
Post by: Keeper on July 11, 2024, 08:19:56 pm
I see what you mean. Is there any regulation on this?

I did a google about Beavis and saw some of the history of that particular case - what is the relevance of the sign you've provided a photograph of?

Cheers
Title: Re: Civil Enforcement - No permit - Sacred Heart Church Wimbledon
Post by: b789 on July 11, 2024, 02:28:35 am
This is what needs to be argued… compare the Beavis sign and the CE sign:

(https://i.imgur.com/SRGenNY.jpeg)

Do you notice the difference and how the charge is brought to the attention of the driver?
Title: Re: Civil Enforcement - No permit - Sacred Heart Church Wimbledon
Post by: Keeper on July 10, 2024, 10:45:31 pm
Thanks both for the responses

Signs are as in my first post - link again here for ready reference.

https://imgur.com/wqLkhDk

It's quite local to me, so happy to go and take any further photos if needed...
Title: Re: Civil Enforcement - No permit - Sacred Heart Church Wimbledon
Post by: b789 on July 10, 2024, 09:47:07 am
Whilst it is agreed that it appears that the driver parked almost in front of a sign and it must have been still light at the time, the argument can still centre on the fact that the signs are a block of text in a tiny font and the charge is not adequately brought to the attention of the driver.

We need to see a close up photo of the sign to determine for sure if there is any weight to that argument.
Title: Re: Civil Enforcement - No permit - Sacred Heart Church Wimbledon
Post by: DWMB2 on July 10, 2024, 09:05:31 am
One thing that may not help is where the driver parked, seemingly directly below one of the signs.
Title: Re: Civil Enforcement - No permit - Sacred Heart Church Wimbledon
Post by: b789 on July 10, 2024, 01:47:18 am
OK, there are signs but they do not appear to adequately bring to the attention of the driver what the charge is for breaching any terms.

Do you have a close up of the terms sign so that it can be compared to the Beavis sign to show the failures? The only close up you’ve shown us is the entrance sign that refers to the other signs with the terms.
Title: Re: Civil Enforcement - No permit - Sacred Heart Church Wimbledon
Post by: Keeper on July 09, 2024, 10:35:32 pm
I'm not having much joy with Plan A - landowner is known for being unhelpful

Photos of car park attached - I think I was parked 2 spaces to the right of the black SUV

If it helps, the signage changed at some point - looking at street view (https://maps.app.goo.gl/Bo9t6EZRyvhGLqL18) for the area, it's an entirely different company


https://imgur.com/Nycf0ka

https://imgur.com/W3S2bt6

https://imgur.com/BpF58eo




Title: Re: Civil Enforcement - No permit - Sacred Heart Church Wimbledon
Post by: b789 on June 27, 2024, 01:37:36 pm
You should, if possible, get some photos of the car park. They should be area pictures showing the layout and the signs. Whilst you won’t use close up photos of signs in your POPLA appeal except to perhaps show any inadequacies in them, it is useful to see where you were parked and exactly what signs were prominent or not.

You will need to point out in your POPLA appeal that CEL must prove that they have a valid contract between them and the landowner. A signed statement confirming that a valid contract exists is not sufficient evidence.

When you have provided some suitable photos to show the layout and general views of the car park and signs, I will be able to provide you with some suitable paragraphs for use in your POPLA appeal.

You have until Monday 29th July to submit your POPLA appeal. The rejection letter says 28 days but we know that POPLA appeal codes are valid for 33 days.
Title: Re: Civil Enforcement - No permit - Sacred Heart Church Wimbledon
Post by: Keeper on June 27, 2024, 11:07:34 am
aaaand we're already there!

Received attached, along with photos of signage (same as mine above plus this other one)



https://imgur.com/twkSJs8

https://imgur.com/PNJ6AzC

https://imgur.com/U8TApNw
Title: Re: Civil Enforcement - No permit - Sacred Heart Church Wimbledon
Post by: DWMB2 on June 26, 2024, 08:25:17 pm
The chances of them accepting the appeal are close to nil. As b789 noted, the main purpose is to get you a code with which you can then appeal to POPLA. With that in mind, there's little harm in starting to consider your draft now.
Title: Re: Civil Enforcement - No permit - Sacred Heart Church Wimbledon
Post by: Keeper on June 26, 2024, 07:37:11 pm
Thanks, have done this and will report back...
Title: Re: Civil Enforcement - No permit - Sacred Heart Church Wimbledon
Post by: b789 on June 25, 2024, 04:44:41 pm
For now you need to get a generic appeal in so that you can get a POPLA code. You don't have much time left for the appeal.

A simple appeal along these lines will get your rejection and POPLA code:

Re PCN number:

I dispute your 'parking charge', as the keeper of the vehicle. I deny any liability or contractual agreement and I will be making a complaint about your predatory conduct to your client landowner.

There will be no admissions as to who was driving and no assumptions can be drawn. Since your PCN is a vague template, I require an explanation of the allegation and your evidence. You must include a close up actual photograph of the sign you contend was at the location on the material date as well as your images of the vehicle.

If the allegation concerns a PDT machine, the data supplied in response to this appeal must include the record of payments made - showing partial VRNs - and an explanation of the reason for the PCN, because your Notice does not explain it.

If the allegation involves an alleged overstay of minutes, your evidence must include the actual grace period agreed by the landowner.

Title: Re: Civil Enforcement - No permit - Sacred Heart Church Wimbledon
Post by: The Rookie on June 25, 2024, 12:34:52 pm
Could I use the
1/ "Given that it's not paid for parking, the driver did not rob you of any income - parking is 'free' anyway"
Or the
2/ "I don't have to tell you who the driver is"

3/ Failing these, would you suggest that I just pay it, or do something else?
Numbered for answering
1/ No, what matters is whether the charge is commercially justified (Ref the Supreme court ruling in Parking Eye v Beavis)
2/ That is correct, but then you may be liable as the Keeper if they have met the requirements of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (schedule 4). I can't see your PCN through my co. firewall so can't tell you if they have or not.

3/ Lets get all the facts first, was the signage 'there to be seen' so the driver should have been aware of them, do they create a contract (detailed photo's needed).
Title: Re: Civil Enforcement - No permit - Sacred Heart Church Wimbledon
Post by: Keeper on June 25, 2024, 11:46:10 am
Thanks for this advice

Realistically, what grounds could I have for a part 20?
 
I have a feeling that the Church will just not be interested - do I have any course of action available with an appeal to CE?

Could I use the "Given that it's not paid for parking, the driver did not rob you of any income - parking is 'free' anyway"
Or the "I don't have to tell you who the driver is"

Failing these, would you suggest that I just pay it, or do something else?


Title: Re: Civil Enforcement - No permit - Sacred Heart Church Wimbledon
Post by: b789 on June 24, 2024, 02:15:28 pm
The signs and the NtK (invoice) are in CE’s name.

If Creative Solutions is a separate registered company and the landowner contract is with them and not CE, then it will depend on how that contract is worded. You’re not going to get sight of that, if you’re lucky, until POPLA and even then they will try and get away with only a signed statement that the contract is valid.

It may have to go all the way to court before they are forced to reveal the contract with the landowner.

You may need to be more forceful with the church if they are the landowner. Remind them that they are jointly and severally liable for the actions of their agent and that should they take the matter to court, they can be expected to called as a witness and and be could named as a party to a Part 20 counterclaim.

The landowner should understand their liability and cannot simply fob you off back to their agents.
Title: Re: Civil Enforcement - No permit - Sacred Heart Church Wimbledon
Post by: Keeper on June 24, 2024, 10:24:13 am
We need to see the PCN (all of it) please, just personal details redacted.

Creative and Civil are the same 'people' but different legal companies, so if the signs are in one name and the PCN or contract (with the Church) in another, they can't enforce it (but will continue blindly anyway).

Pretty shitty behaviour by people claiming to be religious!

Thought I'd done it in original post but didn't enter correctly, done now, thanks for the heads up!

And yes, don't get me started!
Title: Re: Civil Enforcement - No permit - Sacred Heart Church Wimbledon
Post by: The Rookie on June 24, 2024, 10:20:05 am
We need to see the PCN (all of it) please, just personal details redacted.

Creative and Civil are the same 'people' but different legal companies, so if the signs are in one name and the PCN or contract (with the Church) in another, they can't enforce it (but will continue blindly anyway).

Pretty shitty behaviour by people claiming to be religious!
Title: Civil Enforcement - No permit - Sacred Heart Church Wimbledon
Post by: Keeper on June 24, 2024, 10:03:00 am
Hello everyone,

I've been slapped with a PCN (as the keeper) for parking without a permit on some private land (pdf attached)

Bit of context:

1. The driver went to a church hall as they often do for a local residents association meeting at about 8pm at night.
2. While in the meeting the issue of parking / traffic in the local area was discussed and it was mentioned that the church had applied parking conditions on their site due to parents at nearby schools taking all their spaces during pickup / drop-off times.
3. The driver left the meeting and upon leaving, now being aware, saw the signs (photo attached).
4. PCN was received and Plan A commenced. Local residents association were helpful, explained that the driver was not the only one caught out by the new rules and wrote to the Church. I also wrote to the church, asking if they would be able to ask CE to cancel the charge.
6. Church was not very helpful, responding directly to me that the only course of action available is to appeal directly to Creative Parking (aside: seems like a different company to Civil Enforcement?)

I now think I should make some sort of appeal to CE as directed on the notice. Something I noticed, if the appeal is unsuccessful, I lose the chance to pay the reduced rate. Is that normal?


https://imgur.com/wqLkhDk
https://imgur.com/LWCGksP
https://imgur.com/lImFq5j