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Live cases legal advice => Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) => Topic started by: ReflectoR on June 22, 2024, 12:41:56 am

Title: Re: Islington, Code 11 Parked without payment of parking charge, Brewery Road
Post by: John U.K. on February 11, 2025, 11:57:35 am
Much thanks for letting us know :) ... so many threads are left hanging in the ether!
Title: Re: Islington, Code 11 Parked without payment of parking charge, Brewery Road
Post by: ReflectoR on February 11, 2025, 11:47:48 am
Update on this case, because it's nice to know.

They did not contest the PCN. So won by default.
Title: Re: Islington, Code 11 Parked without payment of parking charge, Brewery Road
Post by: John U.K. on December 17, 2024, 09:19:18 am
Seems to be attendance at the office.

Did you contact them as advised above? If not do so. What exactly does the letter say about method, date, time, and place of hearing?



But I've yet to get any evidence pack or anything.


The Council should send you a copy of the evidence pack by Christmas Day BUT Christmas post.....
If it doesn't arrive on 27th, you'll need to check Tribunal opening hours over Christmas and  contact tribunal.


Title: Re: Islington, Code 11 Parked without payment of parking charge, Brewery Road
Post by: ReflectoR on December 17, 2024, 09:14:37 am
They've said it a on Chancery Lane. And I should get it at least 3 days before the hearing. Which isn't much time, what happens if they don't send it 3 days before?
Title: Re: Islington, Code 11 Parked without payment of parking charge, Brewery Road
Post by: ReflectoR on December 17, 2024, 09:12:23 am
Seems to be attendance at the office.

But I've yet to get any evidence pack or anything.
Title: Re: Islington, Code 11 Parked without payment of parking charge, Brewery Road
Post by: Incandescent on December 12, 2024, 09:39:08 pm
So I did the submission, and I've yet to get any evidence pack from Islington. And the hearing is on Jan 2nd, in person.

Secondly is there anyway to get a telephone hearing instead?

P.s. they responded to the subject access request and said they do not keep footage past 90days.
So what hearing is it, papers-only, or attendance at their office ? ALmost all adjudications nowadays are telephone-based. I think you just need to contact London Tribunals to get it altered.

Title: Re: Islington, Code 11 Parked without payment of parking charge, Brewery Road
Post by: ReflectoR on December 12, 2024, 07:57:21 pm
So I did the submission, and I've yet to get any evidence pack from Islington. And the hearing is on Jan 2nd, in person.

Secondly is there anyway to get a telephone hearing instead?

P.s. they responded to the subject access request and said they do not keep footage past 90days.
Title: Re: Islington, Code 11 Parked without payment of parking charge, Brewery Road
Post by: Incandescent on November 12, 2024, 09:35:41 pm
Can I send the above then? I've only got a few days left to appeal.
Seems OK to me, and nobody else has commented, so submit it.
Title: Re: Islington, Code 11 Parked without payment of parking charge, Brewery Road
Post by: ReflectoR on November 12, 2024, 05:05:12 pm
Can I send the above then? I've only got a few days left to appeal.
Title: Re: Islington, Code 11 Parked without payment of parking charge, Brewery Road
Post by: ReflectoR on November 09, 2024, 10:15:11 pm
I've tried rewriting a draft below.

Dear Tribunal,

I am appealing this PCN relying on my original representations outlined below, and on any further material which may emerge from the Evidence Pack.

My original appeal is below, which is a reply to the original informal appeal rejection.

It was rejected wrongly. The correspondence officer, Mo Ali, has misstated the law by saying that ‘Although the picking up of people is permitted at the location, this must be done promptly, and the driver must remain with the vehicle.’

This is incorrect, the driver does not need to remain with the vehicle. And it also doesn’t make sense, considering the assistance part, if the driver is with the vehicle who is to do the assistance?

What I was trying to explain in my earlier appeal was that I parked for a moment to go into the flats opposite to help bring a baby and all his stuff to the car.

So I pulled up into the nearest available bay, which was a pay & display to help onboard a 6 month old baby, and all his belongings, including his pushchair (you can even see this pictured on the side of the vehicle).

All other spots were taken, otherwise I could have even parked in a permit holder bay, for which I have a permit. When I came back the warden was already at the car, however, he had not issued the PCN yet, the windscreen was empty, and the PCN was not yet printed.

However, he did explain that he had already submitted it and it was too late to cancel, so he printed it anyway.

By the time the warden printed the PCN and stuck it on the window to take photos, we were already loading the car, and my daughter was already sitting inside the car. If you check the warden's bodycam you will find that it corroborates my story. Furthermore, you can see on the passenger side of the vehicle, near the back, my wife holding our baby, to put him in his car seat, and you can see the pushchair beside her in the same photo.

To add to this, you can see the observation time is from 16:11 to 16:11, which is 0 minutes. Hardly anytime at all to help onboard a baby, and his belongings into the car.

The Islington (Charged-For Parking Places) Order (Consolidation) 2023 has an exemption for assisted boarding at article 13(1)(a). And your correspondence officer Mo Ali, made a mistake in stating that the driver must remain with the vehicle. If this was the case, who is doing the assistance?
Title: Re: Islington, Code 11 Parked without payment of parking charge, Brewery Road
Post by: ReflectoR on November 09, 2024, 10:04:28 pm
No one was at the car. I went to fetch them, and came back to the car with the kids plus my wife.

So no one was waiting at the car.
Title: Re: Islington, Code 11 Parked without payment of parking charge, Brewery Road
Post by: H C Andersen on November 09, 2024, 09:41:44 pm
You are missing the point which relates to the facts of the case not how reps were made.

Was the driver the only person in the car or was the person who assisted the child only a passenger with the driver remaining in the car throughout?
Title: Re: Islington, Code 11 Parked without payment of parking charge, Brewery Road
Post by: ReflectoR on November 09, 2024, 08:34:41 pm
All the correspondence has been sent in my wife's name.

Should I appeal as her or not?

P.s. when appealing directly to Islington, I did so as myself, choosing the "driver" option.
Title: Re: Islington, Code 11 Parked without payment of parking charge, Brewery Road
Post by: ReflectoR on November 09, 2024, 03:16:28 pm
Sorry, to clarify I wrote the appeal to Tribunal as if I were my wife.

Because my understanding was the keeper of vehicle has to appeal at the tribunal.

When I appealed to Islington, I appealed as myself, and yes I was the driver.

Also to clarify no one was in the account.

The story is the same, I wrote it differently because I was under the impression my wife would have to make the appeal to the tribunal.
Title: Re: Islington, Code 11 Parked without payment of parking charge, Brewery Road
Post by: H C Andersen on November 08, 2024, 10:30:18 am
OP, your account has changed and IMO needs to be clarified.

Pl clarify.

To start with and in your challenge you've posted and submitted 'I parked for a moment to go into the flats opposite to help bring a baby and all his stuff to the car. So I pulled up into the nearest available bay'.

But now this has become: 'I explained to Islington Council that my husband parked to help me board a newborn baby into the vehicle.'.

There was no previous mention that you were the passenger, everything focused on you being the driver and only adult occupant and therefore having to leave the car in order to board your child.

Pl clarify. Were you driving or not and was someone in the car while it was parked?
Title: Re: Islington, Code 11 Parked without payment of parking charge, Brewery Road
Post by: ReflectoR on November 08, 2024, 10:15:53 am
Hi, my draft is below. Thank you!

I would like to appeal this PCN on the same grounds as my original representations.

I explained to Islington Council that my husband parked to help me board a newborn baby into the vehicle. This is covered under the assisted boarding exemption in The Islington (Charged-For Parking Places) Order (Consolidation) 2023 under article 13(1)(a).

I made the following points:

There was no observation time, my husband had gone into the flats to help with the baby, and came out right away with him.

I was already in the car, before they had fully processed the ticket. The PCN was not printed, and not on the windshield. They continued the procedure as I loaded the car with the baby and his stuff.

I have a permit for the bays close to the pay and display bays, however, they were all in use, this was the only suitable area to park.

Islington have stated in their response that a driver found in this situation should remain with the vehicle and instruct the person or people to come to the vehicle. Else they should purchase a payment to park.

If that is the case, then it renders the boarding exemption moot. As if they could get to the vehicle, there’d be no need for assistance in the first place.

Kind regards,
Title: Re: Islington, Code 11 Parked without payment of parking charge, Brewery Road
Post by: John U.K. on November 03, 2024, 01:21:48 pm
I am going to take it to tribunal.

Will write a draft tonight



Post your draft here for comment before submitting.

When registering, opt for personal or telephone hearing (never a decision on papers) and write something like I rely on my original reprsenations and any additional material which may follow on receipt of the Evidence Pack.

When you have a date for hearing advise us, and when you receive the Evidence Pack please post up here the List of Contents and the council's summary as to why they think your appeal should be rejected.
Title: Re: Islington, Code 11 Parked without payment of parking charge, Brewery Road
Post by: ReflectoR on November 03, 2024, 12:53:00 pm
I am going to take it to tribunal.

Will write a draft tonight
Title: Re: Islington, Code 11 Parked without payment of parking charge, Brewery Road
Post by: stamfordman on October 30, 2024, 08:56:10 am
Should you take it to the tribunal?

Well, the choice is

- pay £80
- go to tribunal, lose, still pay £80; win pay £0
Title: Re: Islington, Code 11 Parked without payment of parking charge, Brewery Road
Post by: ReflectoR on October 30, 2024, 02:41:20 am
Should I take this to tribunal?
Title: Rejection
Post by: ReflectoR on October 27, 2024, 01:40:24 pm
So my formal representation to the NTO for this case was rejected, I have posted the rejection letter below.

I've contacted Islington for the bodycam footage, I know I should have done this months ago, which I did do, but I never followed up to their response for ID.

EDIT: The letter is dated 17th, it arrived only the Thursday that just passed (24th).

(https://u.cubeupload.com/rtx/formalrejection1.jpg)
(https://u.cubeupload.com/rtx/formalrejection2.jpg)
Title: Re: Islington, Code 11 Parked without payment of parking charge, Brewery Road
Post by: ReflectoR on September 02, 2024, 01:58:28 pm
Sorry, I was in a rush for work.

To clarify, I submitted the reps online through Islington's system.

Saved the confirmation screenshot.

The actual date printed on the NTO is 5th August.

I made a mistake when I said it arrived on the 5th of August.
Title: Re: Islington, Code 11 Parked without payment of parking charge, Brewery Road
Post by: H C Andersen on September 02, 2024, 09:16:57 am


the NTO has finally arrived, well actually it arrived on the 5th of August.

The NTO was dated 5th August.


Unlikely.

Anyway, you've submitted reps so let's keep our fingers crossed. For accuracy, the fact that the penalty is still at £80 does not mean that reps could not be disregarded.
Title: Re: Islington, Code 11 Parked without payment of parking charge, Brewery Road
Post by: John U.K. on September 02, 2024, 08:39:53 am
Okay, posted now!
I hope they accept. Thank you so much!


Not online?
Title: Re: Islington, Code 11 Parked without payment of parking charge, Brewery Road
Post by: ReflectoR on September 02, 2024, 07:28:38 am
Okay, posted now!

I hope they accept. Thank you so much!
Title: Re: Islington, Code 11 Parked without payment of parking charge, Brewery Road
Post by: ReflectoR on September 02, 2024, 07:16:31 am
The NTO was dated 5th August.

I will submit today.
Title: Re: Islington, Code 11 Parked without payment of parking charge, Brewery Road
Post by: Hippocrates on August 31, 2024, 01:55:24 pm
We have not seen the NTO. I would submit TODAY. Still shows £80.
Title: Re: Islington, Code 11 Parked without payment of parking charge, Brewery Road
Post by: H C Andersen on August 31, 2024, 01:39:06 pm
I'm glad you've lost my tongue-in-cheek para!

OP, my concern is that you haven't posted the NTO therefore we don't know its date of issue. The 28-day period begins on the date of service which is deemed to be 2 working days after posting and whether this is 5th Aug. we wouldn't know.

What is the date of issue of the NTO?

If it's 1 Aug. then the 28-day period ends 1 Sept. which is tomorrow;
If earlier then the 28 days are already up.

It's this critical.
Title: Re: Islington, Code 11 Parked without payment of parking charge, Brewery Road
Post by: Hippocrates on August 31, 2024, 01:27:55 pm

I think the 28days area nearly up for the NTK, should I send what I have?
No as it is too combative. I would simply state that the contravention did not occur and I reiterate my original challenge which I require you to consider as my formal representations.

Ignore my point about the website for the time being.

The registered keeper must do this.
Title: Re: Islington, Code 11 Parked without payment of parking charge, Brewery Road
Post by: ReflectoR on August 31, 2024, 12:51:20 pm
I'm not too sure what you're asking?

I think the 28days area nearly up for the NTK, should I send what I have?
Title: Re: Islington, Code 11 Parked without payment of parking charge, Brewery Road
Post by: Hippocrates on August 25, 2024, 11:41:39 am
Apologies if this is already known; but, when you go to challenge online, what are the grounds stated on their website please?  There may be an issue.
Title: Re: Islington, Code 11 Parked without payment of parking charge, Brewery Road
Post by: ReflectoR on August 24, 2024, 05:59:07 pm
Here is the modified version:

Dear Islington,

I am responding to the NTO for PCN: IZ30900529. VRN: LK56CSZ.

This is my formal representation, and I am appealing on the same grounds that I did in my original informal appeal.

It was rejected wrongly. The correspondence officer, Mo Ali, has misstated the law by saying that ‘Although the picking up of people is permitted at the location, this must be done promptly, and the driver must remain with the vehicle.’

This is incorrect, the driver does not need to remain with the vehicle. And it also doesn’t make sense, considering the assistance part, if the driver is with the vehicle who is to do the assistance?

What I was trying to explain in my earlier appeal was that I parked for a moment to go into the flats opposite to help bring a baby and all his stuff to the car.

So I pulled up into the nearest available bay, which was a pay & display to help onboard a 6 month old baby, and all his belongings, including his pushchair (you can even see this pictured on the side of the vehicle).

All other spots were taken, otherwise I could have even parked in a permit holder bay, for which I have a permit. When I came back the warden was already at the car, however, he had not issued the PCN yet, the windscreen was empty, and the PCN was not yet printed.

However, he did explain that he had already submitted it and it was too late to cancel, so he printed it anyway.

By the time the warden printed the PCN and stuck it on the window to take photos, we were already loading the car, and my daughter was already sitting inside the car. If you check the warden's bodycam you will find that it corroborates my story. Furthermore, you can see on the passenger side of the vehicle, near the back, my wife holding our baby, to put him in his car seat, and you can see the pushchair beside her in the same photo.

To add to this, you can see the observation time is from 16:11 to 16:11, which is 0 minutes. Hardly anytime at all to help onboard a baby, and his belongings into the car.

The Islington (Charged-For Parking Places) Order (Consolidation) 2023 has an exemption for assisted boarding at article 13(1)(a). And your correspondence officer Mo Ali, made a mistake in stating that the driver must remain with the vehicle. If this was the case, who is doing the assistance?
Title: Re: Islington, Code 11 Parked without payment of parking charge, Brewery Road
Post by: stamfordman on August 19, 2024, 08:10:30 pm
You need to lose the last paragraph and more politely restate the grounds of the initial challenge as an exemption. 
Title: Re: Islington, Code 11 Parked without payment of parking charge, Brewery Road
Post by: ReflectoR on August 19, 2024, 07:03:32 pm
Okay,

the NTO has finally arrived, well actually it arrived on the 5th of August. I've just got around to writing out a draft below. Please if you all could pick it apart, I'd be grateful. Thank you so much.

Dear Islington,

I am responding to the NTO for PCN: IZ30900529. VRN: LK56CSZ.

This is my formal representation, and I am appealing on the same grounds that I did in my original informal appeal.

It was rejected wrongly. The correspondence officer, Mo Ali, has misstated the law by saying that ‘Although the picking up of people is permitted at the location, this must be done promptly, and the driver must remain with the vehicle.’

This is incorrect, the driver does not need to remain with the vehicle. And it also doesn’t make sense, considering the assistance part, if the driver is with the vehicle who is to do the assistance?

While one part of me wants the authority to cancel the PCN now, another part of me wants you to continue your baseless argument regarding loading/assisted boarding to enable me to obtain a costs award which might go some way towards compensating me for the wholly unnecessary time and effort which the authority’s pursuit of the PCN has cased.
Title: Re: Islington, Code 11 Parked without payment of parking charge, Brewery Road
Post by: ReflectoR on July 21, 2024, 10:16:42 pm
OP, it's a no-brainer to wait for the NTO.

Amid all the verbiage of their response, the following stand out:

1. 'Although the picking up of people at the location is permitted..'

2. '..the driver must remain with the vehicle'.

1, Excellent news, they knew and now so do we.

2. Garbage. We know and soon so will they! 


In any reps, I'm tempted to suggest you weave in something along these lines..

..while one part of me wants the authority to cancel the PCN now, another part wants you to continue your baseless argument regarding loading/assisted boarding to enable me to obtain a costs award which might go some way towards compensating me for the wholly unnecessary time and effort which the authority's pursuit of the PCN has caused. ...



I want to add that in too. Haha.

Thank you for the help and support, I am waiting for the NTO. Sorry for the late reply, I have been away for work.
Title: Re: Islington, Code 11 Parked without payment of parking charge, Brewery Road
Post by: H C Andersen on July 09, 2024, 12:14:52 pm
OP, it's a no-brainer to wait for the NTO.

Amid all the verbiage of their response, the following stand out:

1. 'Although the picking up of people at the location is permitted..'

2. '..the driver must remain with the vehicle'.

1, Excellent news, they knew and now so do we.

2. Garbage. We know and soon so will they! 


In any reps, I'm tempted to suggest you weave in something along these lines..

..while one part of me wants the authority to cancel the PCN now, another part wants you to continue your baseless argument regarding loading/assisted boarding to enable me to obtain a costs award which might go some way towards compensating me for the wholly unnecessary time and effort which the authority's pursuit of the PCN has caused. ...

Title: Re: Islington, Code 11 Parked without payment of parking charge, Brewery Road
Post by: Hippocrates on July 09, 2024, 09:35:46 am
I would request the CEO's notes to corroborate the bodycam SAR. Let's hope a more senior officer considers the formal representations.
Title: Re: Islington, Code 11 Parked without payment of parking charge, Brewery Road
Post by: cp8759 on July 08, 2024, 10:55:21 pm
Okay I will wait for NTO, and then I think you can appeal one more time the NTO before it goes tribunal, if I am correct?
When you get the NTO you must make formal representations, if those representations are rejected then you can appeal against that rejection to the tribunal.
Title: Re: Islington, Code 11 Parked without payment of parking charge, Brewery Road
Post by: ReflectoR on July 08, 2024, 03:11:59 pm
Okay I will wait for NTO, and then I think you can appeal one more time the NTO before it goes tribunal, if I am correct?
Title: Re: Islington, Code 11 Parked without payment of parking charge, Brewery Road
Post by: cp8759 on July 07, 2024, 11:38:15 pm
When you respond again Islington usually put the PCN on hold, and the discount is extended, sometimes.
To be honest in a case like this that should go to the tribunal anyway, the discount is largely irrelevant.
Title: Re: Islington, Code 11 Parked without payment of parking charge, Brewery Road
Post by: ReflectoR on July 06, 2024, 08:28:37 pm
The v5c is in my wife's name and at our current address.

When you respond again Islington usually put the PCN on hold, and the discount is extended, sometimes.
Title: Re: Islington, Code 11 Parked without payment of parking charge, Brewery Road
Post by: John U.K. on July 06, 2024, 05:36:57 pm
Wait for the NtO. See what the experts here have to say.
If you want to keep the discount, they have given you until 23rd to have the money in their account, but I suspect you may be advised to press on and probably end up paying nothing.

Meanwhile, physically check your V5C - is it your name and address, and is the address correct in every particular? When was it last updated?
Title: Re: Islington, Code 11 Parked without payment of parking charge, Brewery Road
Post by: ReflectoR on July 06, 2024, 05:23:59 pm
Great! Thanks John.

So should I respond with this or wait for the NTK?
Title: Re: Islington, Code 11 Parked without payment of parking charge, Brewery Road
Post by: John U.K. on July 06, 2024, 12:32:00 pm
They have mis-stated the law on assisted boarding/alighting.

Quote
Although the picking up of people is permitted at the location, this must be done promptly, and the driver must remain with the vehicle.
Title: First Rejection
Post by: ReflectoR on July 06, 2024, 12:06:51 pm
I just got a rejection to my appeal. I have posted the response below. I am thinking to respond to this rejection first, instead of simply just waiting for the NTO. What do you think? I'm not too sure how to word the response.

Side note: I submitted the subject access request.

appeal rejection pg 1/2
(https://u.cubeupload.com/rtx/RejectionPG1Rdctd.jpg)

appeal rejection pg 2/2
(https://u.cubeupload.com/rtx/RejectionPG2Rdctd.jpg)
Title: Re: Islington, Code 11 Parked without payment of parking charge, Brewery Road
Post by: ReflectoR on July 04, 2024, 07:47:22 pm
Okay cool, I will put in a request for it. It should coroborate my story at least.

Thank you so much, again!
Title: Re: Islington, Code 11 Parked without payment of parking charge, Brewery Road
Post by: cp8759 on July 03, 2024, 10:25:18 pm
Okay, what is the footage for, if you don't mind me asking?
You've mentioned it in the representation and you've said it will corroborate your story. So, we might as well get it and have a look. You have to request it now because it could take a month to come back, if you wait for the notice of rejection then there won't be enough time to wait for it.

I've never seen a council produce such footage at the tribunal (apart from Bexley) so if it hurts your case, we can just ignore it. If it helps you, you can use it as an item of evidence for your tribunal appeal.
Title: Re: Islington, Code 11 Parked without payment of parking charge, Brewery Road
Post by: ReflectoR on July 03, 2024, 05:42:35 pm
Okay, what is the footage for, if you don't mind me asking?

I am about to submit the appeal now. I am going to save as PDF, and upload, because the text box messes up the formatting.

EDIT: I've just now submitted the appeal.
Title: Re: Islington, Code 11 Parked without payment of parking charge, Brewery Road
Post by: cp8759 on July 02, 2024, 12:57:13 am
Looks good to me.

In parallel, I'd make a subject access request for the bodycam footage, there's a form you can fill in on https://www.islington.gov.uk/about-the-council/information-governance/data-protection/subject-access-request
Title: Re: Islington, Code 11 Parked without payment of parking charge, Brewery Road
Post by: ReflectoR on July 02, 2024, 12:12:54 am
Thank you again for all of your replies. I have made the changes John UK, and cp8759 have suggested. Below is the second draft.

Thank you John for pointing out the mistake I was making with regards to seating my daughter at the front. I am going to double check her height tomorrow. But I believed she reached 135cm already. Either way, I think you're right its best to leave that detail out.

I'm wondering if leaving in the part to check the bodycam bit is okay?


Draft 2 below.

I am writing to make representations against PCN IZ30900529.

I parked for a moment to go into the flats opposite to help bring a baby and all his stuff to the car. So I pulled up into the nearest available bay, which was a pay & display to help onboard a 6 month old baby, and all his belongings, including his pushchair (you can even see this pictured on the side of the vehicle).

All other spots were taken, otherwise I could have even parked in a permit holder bay, for which I have a permit.

When I came back the warden was already at the car, however, he had not issued the PCN yet, the windscreen was empty, and the PCN was not yet printed. However, he did explain that he had already submitted it and it was too late to cancel, so he printed it anyway.

By the time the warden printed the PCN and stuck it on the window to take photos, we were already loading the car, and my daughter was already sitting inside the car. If you check the warden's bodycam you will find that it corroborates my story.

Furthermore, you can see on the passenger side of the vehicle, near the back, my wife holding our baby, to put him in his car seat, and you can see the pushchair beside her in the same photo.

To add to this, you can see the observation time is from 16:11 to 16:11, which is 0 minutes. Hardly anytime at all to help onboard a baby, and his belongings into the car.

The Islington (Charged-For Parking Places) Order (Consolidation) 2023 has an exemption for assisted boarding at article 13(1)(a). I ask that you cancel the PCN based on this exemption.

Thank you kindly,

ReflectoR



Title: Re: Islington, Code 11 Parked without payment of parking charge, Brewery Road
Post by: John U.K. on June 30, 2024, 06:02:07 pm
+1


Please post your final draft here before submitting.
Title: Re: Islington, Code 11 Parked without payment of parking charge, Brewery Road
Post by: cp8759 on June 30, 2024, 04:23:47 pm
@ReflectoR I've made a couple of changes highlighted in red below:

To add to this, you can see the observation time is from 16:11 to 16:11, which is 0 minutes. Hardly anytime at all to help onboard a baby, and his belongings into the car.

The Islington (Charged-For Parking Places) Order (Consolidation) 2023 has an exemption for assisted boarding at article 13(1)(a), I ask that you cancel the PCN canceled based on this exemption.

Thank you kindly,

ReflectoR


You don't need to give them a link to the order, they have it already. Submit the representation online and keep a screenshot of the confirmation page.
Title: Re: Islington, Code 11 Parked without payment of parking charge, Brewery Road
Post by: John U.K. on June 29, 2024, 08:35:24 am
Wait for some tweaking by the experts.

Meanwhile, a couple of  small points

1) a deletion needed - at this stage you're seeking to persuade, not antagonise:

It’s not clear in any of the pictures that my daughter was sitting in the front seat because of the reflection on the windscreen, however, you will notice the warden has taken an extremely close up picture of the PCN, with the vehicle VIN number, I believe this was to avoid taking a picture of my daughter, who is only 7.

2) and an alteration - you are claiming a statutory exemption, not saying it would be nice if they'd grant it.

I would like the PCN canceled based on this exemption.
  I claim this exemption and look forward to the cancellation of this PCN.

-------------------------------------------
EDIT

Quote
We were already loading the car, and my daughter was already sitting in the front seat, by the time he had printed the PCN, stuck it on the window and took pictures. If you check the wardens bodycam you will find that it corroborates my story.

It’s not clear in any of the pictures that my daughter was sitting in the front seat because of the reflection on the windscreen, however, you will notice the warden has taken an extremely close up picture of the PCN, with the vehicle VIN number, I believe this was to avoid taking a picture of my daughter, who is only 7.

Looking for a way to re-instate your daughter's age , I thought of adjusting
my daughter was already sitting in the front seat to
my seven-year old daughter was already sitting

BUT that reminded me that you don't want to be admitting to having a 7year old in the front seat
(see
https://www.childcarseats.org.uk/carrying-other-peoples-children/child-seat-and-seat-belt-laws/
https://blog.halfords.com/can-my-child-sit-in-the-front-seat-of-a-car/
https://www.gov.uk/child-car-seats-the-rules    )

so probably best to change in the front seat to in the car.
Title: Re: Islington, Code 11 Parked without payment of parking charge, Brewery Road
Post by: ReflectoR on June 29, 2024, 08:03:46 am
Is the draft okay or does it need tweaking?
Title: Re: Islington, Code 11 Parked without payment of parking charge, Brewery Road
Post by: ReflectoR on June 26, 2024, 10:00:24 pm
Thank you so much for your replies!! Sorry for my delay, I have a draft below:

I am writing to make representations against PCN IZ30900529.

I parked for a moment to go into the flats opposite to help bring a baby and all his stuff to the car. So I pulled up into the nearest available bay, which was a pay & display to help onboard a 6 month old baby, and all his belongings, including his pushchair (you can even see this pictured on the side of the vehicle).

All other spots were taken, otherwise I could have even parked in a permit holder bay, for which I have a permit.

When I came back to the car the warden was already at the car, however, he had not issued the PCN yet, the windscreen was empty, and the PCN was not yet printed. However, he did explain that he had already submitted it and it was too late to cancel, so he printed it anyway.

We were already loading the car, and my daughter was already sitting in the front seat, by the time he had printed the PCN, stuck it on the window and took pictures. If you check the wardens bodycam you will find that it corroborates my story.

It’s not clear in any of the pictures that my daughter was sitting in the front seat because of the reflection on the windscreen, however, you will notice the warden has taken an extremely close up picture of the PCN, with the vehicle VIN number, I believe this was to avoid taking a picture of my daughter, who is only 7.

Furthermore, you can see on the passenger side of the vehicle, near the back, my wife holding our baby, to put him in his carseat.

To add to this, you can see the observation time is from 16:11 to 16:11, which is 0 minutes. Hardly anytime at all to help onboard a baby, and his belongings into the car.

Here is a link to a blanket order that covers all paid bays in the Islington borough.

The Islington (Charged-For Parking Places) Order (Consolidation) 2023

You will find under the relevant article 13(1)(a) an assisted boarding exemption. I would like the PCN canceled based on this exemption.

Thank you kindly,

ReflectoR


Title: Re: Islington, Code 11 Parked without payment of parking charge, Brewery Road
Post by: cp8759 on June 23, 2024, 04:41:24 pm
@ReflectoR we already have The Islington (Charged-For Parking Places) Order (Consolidation) 2023 (https://www.islington.gov.uk/-/media/sharepoint-lists/public-records/transportandinfrastructure/parking/2023-consolidation-order/made-orders/charged-pps.pdf), it's a blanket order that covers all the paid bays in the borough.

The relevant exemption is at article 13(1)(a) so no research is needed, and obviously a baby cannot walk herself to the car or carry her belongings.

All you need to do is make representations explaining what you've explained to us and asking the council to cancel the penalty based on the assisted boarding exemption at article 13(1)(a) of The Islington (Charged-For Parking Places) Order (Consolidation) 2023.

Post a draft on here before sending it off.
Title: Re: Islington, Code 11 Parked without payment of parking charge, Brewery Road
Post by: H C Andersen on June 22, 2024, 01:14:13 pm
To follow on from the previous post..

Make reps and claim that you were simply assisting a young child (* year-old)to the vehicle and loading their paraphernalia from ****(address) which is an adjacent property. Loading and assisting your child into the car were witnessed by the CEO and recorded in their photos, see attached.

You understand why the CEO continued to serve the PCN as this was already being prepared when we returned and they may not cancel a PCN in these circumstances, however, as these are exempt activities you would expect the authority to cancel the PCN.



If these aren't exempt activities then they'll tell you. You don't need to research this beforehand IMO.
Title: Re: Islington, Code 11 Parked without payment of parking charge, Brewery Road
Post by: Incandescent on June 22, 2024, 11:46:12 am
Essentially this comes down to the fact that you parked in a P&D bay to board a passenger, but didn't pay to park. You have posted the PCN so it was obviously served to you via the envelope on the car.

There may be a boarding/alighting passengers exemption in the traffic order for the bay. Our administrator is a real wizard in getting these, but it would probably take longer than your discount period. So I suggest you submit representations that your were boarding your child which meant you had to leave the car to collect her/him. This will get us a longer period in which to investigate the matter, and hold the hounds off you for a bit. 

Title: Islington, Code 11 Parked without payment of parking charge, Brewery Road
Post by: ReflectoR on June 22, 2024, 12:41:56 am
Hi all,

NOTE: I am reposting this hopefully it is more in line with the guidelines. I am sorry for my previous post, it was too late for me to edit it.

Thank you all in advance, as always.

I thought I was parking for a second and popping into the flats opposite to help bring a baby and all his stuff to the car. So I pulled up into a Pay and Display, I have a permit for the nearby resident bays, but they were all full, and there were only double yellows.

By the time I got back to the car, approximately 3 to 5 minutes later, the Ticket Warden was already at the car.

No PCN on windscreen yet, so I started loading the car. As you can see in the pictures (I've blurred out our faces).

Note in PIC 2 you can see the pushchair on the side.

It's not clear in any of the PICS, but my daughter is already sitting in the front seat. I think this is why in PIC 3 he zoomed in on the VIN, instead of the standard pic where its a closeup of the PCN on the windscreen.

When I arrived the PCN was not printed yet, and then he printed it as I was loading. And I asked him to just give it to me, but he didn't want to. He told me to appeal it, and they will check his bodycam to see that I have already arrived. I don't know how true that is.

The observation time is from 16:11 to 16:11, 0 minutes.

Do I have a case? What is the best way to word it?

PICTURES BELOW:

PCN FRONT:
(https://u.cubeupload.com/rtx/FrontIZ30900529.jpeg)

PCN BACK:
(https://u.cubeupload.com/rtx/BackIZ30900529.jpeg)

PIC 1:
(https://u.cubeupload.com/rtx/PIC10529.jpg)

PIC 2:
(https://u.cubeupload.com/rtx/PIC20529.jpg)

PIC 3:
(https://u.cubeupload.com/rtx/PIC30529.jpg)

PIC 4:
(https://u.cubeupload.com/rtx/PIC40529.jpg)