Free Traffic Legal Advice

Live cases legal advice => Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) => Topic started by: hirerspcn on June 15, 2023, 01:15:02 pm

Title: Re: Waltham Forest - 01 Parked in restricted street
Post by: hirerspcn on July 25, 2023, 01:19:23 pm
After phoning the hirer company multiple times, i was unable to get an reply to my pcn.

Therefore I have decided to pay before the price increased.

Thanks all for your help.
Title: Re: Waltham Forest - 01 Parked in restricted street
Post by: mrmustard on July 19, 2023, 07:07:31 pm
I agree with CP8759
Title: Re: Waltham Forest - 01 Parked in restricted street
Post by: cp8759 on July 19, 2023, 04:01:36 pm
If they've supplied the first agreement I think it would be risky to go to appeal, but wait and see what Mr Mustard says.

You definitely want to try and find out before the end of this week, because if you decide it's not worth the risk, you don't want to lose the 50% discount (which expires at midnight on 25 July, next Tuesday).
Title: Re: Waltham Forest - 01 Parked in restricted street
Post by: hirerspcn on July 19, 2023, 02:16:32 pm
I am trying to get ahold of the hire company to get a clear answer but they are being very slow.

If i don't get an answer I will have to go into their offices.

Do I have an option 2 if they have supplied the 1st agreement?

Should my third option be that i pay before the charge increases?
Title: Re: Waltham Forest - 01 Parked in restricted street
Post by: cp8759 on July 18, 2023, 11:56:20 pm
As Mr Mustard says you do not have to incriminate yourself. If the hire company supplied the May agreement to the council, you have a winning appeal IMO. I'd just ask the hire company to be sure.
Title: Re: Waltham Forest - 01 Parked in restricted street
Post by: mrmustard on July 18, 2023, 12:10:22 pm
This case may turn on which agreement the car hire company gave to the council.

We exploit any holes in the council's case, we don't have to fill in the missing evidence.
Title: Re: Waltham Forest - 01 Parked in restricted street
Post by: hirerspcn on July 18, 2023, 11:58:38 am
I should have mentioned but the rental agreement in my previous reply is an updated agreement one that i signed because they have got the dates wrong.

The first agreement i signed here: https://i.ibb.co/pWng4QQ/IMG-2495.jpg
Title: Re: Waltham Forest - 01 Parked in restricted street
Post by: mrmustard on July 18, 2023, 11:44:36 am
I have messaged cp8759 off line.

I noticed that the hire agreement is from 17/3/23 to 6/9/23 but was only signed on 23/5/23 so an adjudicator probably won't accept it as proof of hire on the alleged contravention date of 12/4/23
Title: Re: Waltham Forest - 01 Parked in restricted street
Post by: hirerspcn on July 18, 2023, 11:31:38 am
On the notice of rejection letter, they wrote that they have been supplied with a signed hire agreement.

What grounds do i actually have here?
Title: Re: Waltham Forest - 01 Parked in restricted street
Post by: cp8759 on July 17, 2023, 10:46:15 pm
The hire agreement is on the face of it complaint.

You need to press the hire company to see if they have supplied a copy of it to the council. You also need them to confirm in writing whether they've heard back or not.

If the hire company answers that they haven't supplied a copy of the actual rental agreement, or that they haven't heard back from the council, that gives you grounds to carry on.

I've checked the map tile here (https://store.traffweb.app/walthamforest/documents/parkmap/msched/CT43_rv8_1.pdf) and it all seems to be in order.
Title: Re: Waltham Forest - 01 Parked in restricted street
Post by: hirerspcn on July 17, 2023, 03:10:14 pm
My rental agreement
https://i.ibb.co/9Tj8Z67/IMG-0793.jpg
Title: Re: Waltham Forest - 01 Parked in restricted street
Post by: cp8759 on July 16, 2023, 10:18:05 pm
So it's a short term hire as it's less than six months. Could you show us a copy of whatever document you signed to hire the vehicle?

From what you say I'm 95% sure it's not complaint with The Road Traffic (Owner Liability) Regulations 2000 and that means you can easily win an appeal, but if you can post it on here (just redact address & driving licence number) I can tell you for sure.
Title: Re: Waltham Forest - 01 Parked in restricted street
Post by: hirerspcn on July 16, 2023, 01:22:27 pm
They have told me a while ago that they have not heard back from the council and that usually it takes a few weeks for them to get a response.

I think short term because the minimum period was 6 weeks contract. After this it is monthly rolling and i can return the vehicle once i have given 2 weeks notice.
Title: Re: Waltham Forest - 01 Parked in restricted street
Post by: cp8759 on July 16, 2023, 01:13:19 pm
So have you heard back from the hire company?

Also, is this a short-term hire or a long-term lease?
Title: Re: Waltham Forest - 01 Parked in restricted street
Post by: hirerspcn on July 14, 2023, 04:08:10 pm
I have received a reply from Waltham Forest. Attached Images below

Front: https://i.ibb.co/GQdGjTg/IMG-2972.jpg
Back: https://i.ibb.co/NrmmMzL/IMG-2973.jpg
Title: Re: Waltham Forest - 01 Parked in restricted street
Post by: cp8759 on June 26, 2023, 02:24:39 pm
Not relevant to this topic but i noticed the Pepipoo forums are working, is it better to continue/create new posts on here rather than Pepipoo.
Please stick to the new site, thank you.
Title: Re: Waltham Forest - 01 Parked in restricted street
Post by: hirerspcn on June 26, 2023, 02:15:53 pm
Ok thanks for your reply. I will send this to them.

-----------

Not relevant to this topic but i noticed the Pepipoo forums are working, is it better to continue/create new posts on here rather than Pepipoo.
Title: Re: Waltham Forest - 01 Parked in restricted street
Post by: cp8759 on June 26, 2023, 02:13:04 pm
Ok here's my draft:

I am challenging this PCN as this vehicle is not registered to me and I do not own this vehicle.

------------

I feel like i could add more but i do not know what else i can add. If i could get any input on this, that would be greatly appreciated.
To be honest you don't need to add anything else, in the first instance they have to prove you are liable, it's not up to you to show that you're not.
Title: Re: Waltham Forest - 01 Parked in restricted street
Post by: hirerspcn on June 26, 2023, 02:05:55 pm
Ok here's my draft:

I am challenging this PCN as this vehicle is not registered to me and I do not own this vehicle.

------------

I feel like i could add more but i do not know what else i can add. If i could get any input on this, that would be greatly appreciated.
Title: Re: Waltham Forest - 01 Parked in restricted street
Post by: cp8759 on June 26, 2023, 01:04:33 pm
Since nobody has suggested anything else. Should i appeal on the basis that I am not the registered keeper.
Yes, do that and let's see what they say.
Title: Re: Waltham Forest - 01 Parked in restricted street
Post by: hirerspcn on June 26, 2023, 04:36:02 am
Since nobody has suggested anything else. Should i appeal on the basis that I am not the registered keeper.

I do not want to miss the deadline to appeal like last time.
Title: Re: Waltham Forest - 01 Parked in restricted street
Post by: cp8759 on June 16, 2023, 05:40:53 pm
You have until midnight on 28 June to make representations, if nobody else suggests anything better, just make representations on the basis that you are not the registered keeper and you do not own the vehicle.
Title: Waltham Forest - 01 Parked in restricted street
Post by: hirerspcn on June 15, 2023, 01:15:02 pm
This is continuing on from the previous forum (http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=149403) summarised.

I have received a windscreen for parking on double yellow at night. I was sick the following days. On the 5th day i was sick, is when i was notified that there is a pcn on the vehicle. A family friend came over on that day and moved the vehicle into a parking bay, I have doctors sick note to show the period in which i was sick. I do have a CPZ permit for this street with this vehicle. The vehicle is being rented to me for PHV use.


Since i did not appeal within 14 days of windscreen ticket, as i was waiting for advise on a draft appeal, the discount period passed. I was then advised to wait for a NTO which i have received. After receiving the Nto, i was advised to contact my hirer company and ask them if they heard back from the council after passing on my details. The company have been non responsive and would like further advise.

Windscreen pcn; https://i.ibb.co/sVDwjr2/IMG-2569.jpg
Nto: https://i.ibb.co/qC4ys6N/IMG-2655.jpg