Free Traffic Legal Advice
Live cases legal advice => Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) => Topic started by: nature_boy on June 21, 2024, 04:58:00 pm
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not sure if there are any more options now other than going to court or pay the fine?
Nope, just those two options, although note that London Tribunals is not a court in the strict legal sense. If you take them to London Tribunals, it is with the full PCN penalty in play, nil if you win. They have re-offered the discount.
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Representation rejected, not sure if there are any more options now other than going to court or pay the fine?
pls help!
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I have received a reply from Southwark on this after more than a month.
The email reply has been received today 29/7/2024.
When I log into their site to view the status of the PCN, it says they replied to my representation on 25/7/24.
In the actual rejection letter says (pls see attachments) Rejection Date as 26/7/24.
I do not know if these discrepancies in date means anything or not, the representation has been rejected anyway.
It says I have 14 days to pay the fine now after which time it will increase.
I am not sure from which date the 14 days will be counted from!
Appreciate if anyone kindly let me know what are my options now?
Many thanks.
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1BMtEwhlng-OJqWJGYpyOj1_dzIOCUiZa?usp=sharing
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Thanks a lot.
I will come back on this, once I hear back from the Southwark council.
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You should log on and go to the representations option. Screenshot and/or make a pdf as required.
Dear Southwark Parking Services
Ref: PCNs VRM
I make these formal representations against the two Penalty Charge Notices as follows:
1. There is a plethora of signage which I found to be confusing. Please, at least, use your discretion to cancel the second PCN.
2. Your website contains a similar plethora of grounds and reasons for challenging such a PCN, many of which are either irrelevant or bear no relation to the law.
3. The law states this @ 4.8. iii-v to Schedule I:
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukla/2003/3/section/4/enacted
(iii)that the penalty charge must be paid before the end of the period of 28 days beginning with the date of the notice;
(v)that, if the penalty charge is not paid before the end of the 28 day period, an increased charge may be payable;
In both instances, your website shows that the price will increase to £130 a whole day before it is legally possible to do so. Therefore, this is a serious departure from the statutory scheme and it follows that the PCNs should be cancelled.
Yours faithfully
Registered Keeper
Address
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If you type in penalty exceeded amount:
I never received the PCN
explain why my PCN was given
I'm challenging my PCN late because...
the CCTV system/operator made a mistake
I never received the PCN or Notice to Owner
I've already paid - in cash
I've already paid - by cheque
I've already paid - by credit card
I've already paid - by postal order
you've overcharged me
I've been away so didn't know the charge was increasing - can I pay less?
I'm short of money - can I pay less?
I've changed address so didn't know the charge was increasing - can I pay less?
****
The law:
(v)that, if the penalty charge is not paid before the end of the 28 day period, an increased charge may be payable;
******
This is wrong:
Ticket ReferenceJK11577109
Your PCN is at discount stage. PCN process information
Vehicle Registration NumberFP19XGM
ColourSILVER
MakeTOYOTA
Contravention52m - Failing to comply with a prohibition on certain types of vehicle (motor vehicles)
LocationRYE LANE JUNCTION HANOVER PARK
First seen atSat, 8 Jun 2024 23:56
Issued atSat, 8 Jun 2024 23:56
Served byPost
The amount outstanding on the Penalty Charge Notice will increase to £130.00 on Tue, 9 Jul 2024. Please pay £65.00 now.
***
This wrong too:
Penalty Charge Notice details
Ticket ReferenceJK11601870
Your PCN is at discount stage. PCN process information
Vehicle Registration NumberFP19XGM
ColourSILVER
MakeTOYOTA
Contravention52m - Failing to comply with a prohibition on certain types of vehicle (motor vehicles)
LocationRYE LANE JUNCTION HANOVER PARK
First seen atWed, 12 Jun 2024 23:52
Issued atWed, 12 Jun 2024 23:52
Served byPost
The amount outstanding on the Penalty Charge Notice will increase to £130.00 on Sun, 14 Jul 2024. Please pay £65.00 now.
PM sent. Back in half an hour with exact instructions.
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I guess understanding things in wrong order is my thing 🤪
Reading the replies I thought there is no grounds for appeal!
Pls let me what technical grounds I need to adopt/explore to appeal, off course don’t want my hard earned money to be wasted like this!
Thanks in advance.
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If you care to read what I have put in the above post.
So I guess the bottom line now is to pay and move on, thanks!
If you pay both now you will be joining The Mugged Club. There is a technical "appeal" for both actually. Your money, your choice.
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Thanks for all feedback.
It was my bad, yes I misread the signs thinking outside of that time the car could go in. Thinking it was one of those timed restrictions!
Similar another entry was made while the same sign was there about a couple of months ago, and nothing happened, that kind of was confusing enough to think there was no issues entering again!!
So I guess the bottom line now is to pay and move on, thanks!
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- I didn't see/understand the signs
Your PCN was issued for contravention 52: disobeying a sign that prohibits certain types of vehicle, for example motorcycles, goods vehicles, all motor vehicles or a combination of these. The sign is round, white and has a red border. It pictures the type of vehicle that is prohibited or, if all vehicles are prohibited, it explains this using words instead of pictures.
We do not normally cancel a PCN for this reason.
It is unfortunate that you were unfamiliar with the rules that were in force. However, it is still up to drivers to be aware of signs and road markings and obey them.
- the signs/markings were faulty
If you let us know why you believe the signs or markings were faulty, we will reconsider your case and then reply to you. To let us know, click Continue.
- this is a hire car - the hirer should pay
We will reconsider your case if you upload the hire agreement. To do this, click Continue.
Among other things, we will check that:
- the PCN was given during the hire period;
- the hire agreement shows the hirer's name and address and the vehicle registration; and
- the hirer has signed a statement of liability for PCNs.
- the fine is so expensive
The charges for PCNs are set by central government, not by us. They are set at high levels to encourage drivers to obey the parking and traffic rules and so increase traffic flow and safety. Also, to make the system fairer, the less serious contraventions (such as overstaying in a Pay & Display bay) now carry a lower charge than the more serious contraventions (such as parking on a double yellow line).
- my car had been stolen
We will reconsider your case if you upload an insurance or police document about the theft. To do this, click Continue.
Among other things, we will check:
- that the document refers to the theft of the vehicle; and
- that the PCN was given while the vehicle was not in your possession.
Search all reasons
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It is not a 'No Entry', it's a prohibition on motor vehicles AKA flying motorbike.
The sign means that at the time at issue you cannot go left or right, which seems odd on the face of it, until you go back, specifically to here: https://maps.app.goo.gl/e7xEoYbBjTgmxGwK8?g_st=ic
You misread at least 2 advance signs and IMO they would fatally undermine any defence based upon the location of the actual signs in Rye Lane.
How did you miss these advance signs? Or did you enter Hanover from Cerise which gives access only to the car park, in which case you have to turn right from Cerise, not left?
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Thanks
PCN: JK11601870
PCN: JK11577109
VRM: FP19XGM
Much appreciate your feedback thanks
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We also need the VRM and PCN numbers.
I would go onto their website and screenshot all the grounds available and/or copy and paste and go further as if to challenge. There may well be errors.
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Apologies for not attaching all the pages, pls have a look at the other pages/sides, appreciate all feedback, many thanks.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1bxKB6cMcg6chDpPm6Q2N2gwYiOME6v_F/view?usp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1wwq78nWmHUjvEzILMRHjKoTIs1RJSN7N/view?usp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1loEWvvR-wQc57_8-tVEPRJFqlrnMfKwS/view?usp=sharing
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So that might be a defence for an appeal?
At the restriction is only seen once the turn is made, therefore almost impossible to avoid, I would think it would be a key point in an appeal based on inadequacy of signage.
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Apologies I have reviewed the PCN link and it should work now!
We need both sides please or all sides.
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So that might be a defence for an appeal?
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I would say the advance sign is misleading as there is no hint of a traffic restriction on it, for a left turn.
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Apologies I have reviewed the PCN link and it should work now!
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I would read that as no entry at all times, but entry for loading is allowed 7-10am, so midnight would appear to be in contravention. Others may find issues in the PCN, but docs are private.
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Hello All, Received two PCNs from Southwark council for running through an apparent NO Entry sign for motor vehicles on the same place one week apart.
The NO Entry sign has timed restriction and by looking at the sign it was perceived that entry was not within the timed restrictions.
However I am still in confusion why the ticket has been issued because it seems that entry was outside the restricted time unless I am reading it all wrong!!
Can anyone kindly help if there are any grounds for appeal? Much appreciate all the help, thanks.
Below is a link of the location
https://maps.app.goo.gl/XpjUkWeDaHjfpTkd8
I am also attaching the picture of NO Entry sign, no sure what am I reading wrong!
Sign says no entry between 7am - 10 am
and entry was at midnight!!
PCN:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1pa4LxTmhq2nPTkhWHOEyIG3gIsa1QJ8J/view
NO Entry:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1cNfSogTSvJ21T5GzolQFWItd66JDwzZC/view
Many thanks in advance.