Free Traffic Legal Advice

Live cases legal advice => Private parking tickets => Topic started by: bdu7 on June 19, 2024, 12:49:40 pm

Title: Re: Parking Eye PCN - 0 Hours 0 Minutes - KFC Walkden, Salford
Post by: bdu7 on December 16, 2024, 02:17:35 pm
Thank you so much @b789

That has been sent, I will provide any further updates should they arrive.

Really appreciate your help!
Title: Re: Parking Eye PCN - 0 Hours 0 Minutes - KFC Walkden, Salford
Post by: b789 on December 16, 2024, 01:30:12 pm
You can respond to the LoC with the following:

Quote
Dear Sirs,

Re: Letter of Claim dated 13th November 2024

I refer to your Letter of Claim.

I confirm that my address for service at this time is as follows, and I request that any outdated address be erased from your records to ensure compliance with data protection obligations:

[YOUR ADDRESS]

Please note that the alleged debt is disputed, and any court proceedings will be robustly defended.

I note that the sum claimed has been increased by an excessive and unjustifiable amount, which appears contrary to the principles established by the Government, who described such practices as “extorting money from motorists.” Please refrain from sending boilerplate responses or justifications regarding this issue.
Under the Pre-Action Protocol for Debt Claims, I require specific answers to the following questions:

1. Does the additional £25 represent what you describe as a “Debt Recovery” fee? If so, is this figure net of or inclusive of VAT? If inclusive, I trust you will explain why I, as the alleged debtor, am being asked to cover your VAT liability.

2. Regarding the principal sum of the alleged Parking Charge Notice (PCN): Is this being claimed as damages for breach of contract, or will it be pleaded as consideration for a purported parking contract?

I would caution you against simply dismissing these questions with vague or boilerplate responses, as I am fully aware of the implications. By claiming that PCNs are exempt from VAT while simultaneously inflating the debt recovery element, you appear to be evading VAT obligations due to HMRC. Such mendacious conduct raises serious questions about the legality and ethics of your practices.

I strongly advise you to cease and desist. Should this matter proceed to court, you can be assured that these issues will be brought to the court’s attention, alongside a robust defence and potentially a counterclaim for unreasonable conduct.

I await your response.

Yours faithfully,


[YOUR NAME]
Title: Re: Parking Eye PCN - 0 Hours 0 Minutes - KFC Walkden, Salford
Post by: bdu7 on December 16, 2024, 01:08:58 pm
Please repost the LoC showing ALL dates. Why are you redacting the very info we need to see? Also, why have you redacted the location when it's included in the title of this thread?

Preferably repost the LoC pages as separate "images" (jpg) rather than as a PDF which we have to download and open separately to read. You can use Imgur.com to host the images and use the "Get Share Links" and then copy the link for "BBCode (Forums)" and paste the link into your post.

Just like this:

(https://i.imgur.com/ihvVgjt.jpeg)

Hi @b789, much appreciated!

Here is the letter. Let me know what I need to do next


(https://i.imgur.com/UT76Gi8.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/pxHAFou.png)
Title: Re: Parking Eye PCN - 0 Hours 0 Minutes - KFC Walkden, Salford
Post by: b789 on December 07, 2024, 11:23:08 am
Please repost the LoC showing ALL dates. Why are you redacting the very info we need to see? Also, why have you redacted the location when it's included in the title of this thread?

Preferably repost the LoC pages as separate "images" (jpg) rather than as a PDF which we have to download and open separately to read. You can use Imgur.com to host the images and use the "Get Share Links" and then copy the link for "BBCode (Forums)" and paste the link into your post.

Just like this:

(https://i.imgur.com/ihvVgjt.jpeg)
Title: Re: Parking Eye PCN - 0 Hours 0 Minutes - KFC Walkden, Salford
Post by: bdu7 on December 07, 2024, 09:07:38 am
Hi,

Is there anything I need to do at the moment, or am I just waiting for a court date for this matter now?

I've not received any further correspondence since the above letter from them or any debt collection agency

Many thanks
Title: Re: Parking Eye PCN - 0 Hours 0 Minutes - KFC Walkden, Salford
Post by: bdu7 on November 27, 2024, 06:29:22 pm
Can you please show us the content of the LoC?

No problem, it is attached here

Many thanks

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: Parking Eye PCN - 0 Hours 0 Minutes - KFC Walkden, Salford
Post by: b789 on November 26, 2024, 10:29:11 pm
Can you please show us the content of the LoC?
Title: Re: Parking Eye PCN - 0 Hours 0 Minutes - KFC Walkden, Salford
Post by: bdu7 on November 26, 2024, 08:13:11 pm
Good afternoon all,

The letter before county court claim has finally arrived.
Please advise on next steps

Many thanks!
@DWMB2 @b789

Sorry to bump this, I'm just conscious that time is moving along and don't want to miss any potential deadlines. I've received the Letter Before County Court Claim, and wonder what I need to do next?

Many thanks
Title: Re: Parking Eye PCN - 0 Hours 0 Minutes - KFC Walkden, Salford
Post by: bdu7 on November 19, 2024, 01:49:18 pm
Good afternoon all,

The letter before county court claim has finally arrived.
Please advise on next steps

Many thanks!

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: Parking Eye PCN - 0 Hours 0 Minutes - KFC Walkden, Salford
Post by: bdu7 on October 23, 2024, 11:28:18 am
It can go a couple of ways with ParkingEye. Sometimes they farm it out to a debt collector who will send a bunch of scary sounding letters before you eventually receive a Letter of Claim. Other times they do the litigation themselves.

Either way, you're looking out for a Letter of Claim, at which point you should come back here for advice.

They have up to 6 years from the date of parking to make a claim, but it would be unusual for ParkingEye to take that long, they're normally comparatively quick if they do decide to sue. If you move house before the matter has been to court, and before the 6 years have expired, write to them to provide your new address for service.

Thank you for the advice!
The debt collector letters are always fun for their creative use of the English language to make possible outcomes sound like the only outcome!
I shall wait for the Letter of Claim and come back here with any further updates.

Very much appreciated!
Title: Re: Parking Eye PCN - 0 Hours 0 Minutes - KFC Walkden, Salford
Post by: DWMB2 on October 17, 2024, 08:53:08 am
It can go a couple of ways with ParkingEye. Sometimes they farm it out to a debt collector who will send a bunch of scary sounding letters before you eventually receive a Letter of Claim. Other times they do the litigation themselves.

Either way, you're looking out for a Letter of Claim, at which point you should come back here for advice.

They have up to 6 years from the date of parking to make a claim, but it would be unusual for ParkingEye to take that long, they're normally comparatively quick if they do decide to sue. If you move house before the matter has been to court, and before the 6 years have expired, write to them to provide your new address for service.
Title: Re: Parking Eye PCN - 0 Hours 0 Minutes - KFC Walkden, Salford
Post by: bdu7 on October 17, 2024, 08:00:55 am
@DWMB2 @b789 Thank you for your replies.
Yes, despite the fact it will likely cost more in the time spent, I feel the principle of the matter means it must be fought. So I am happy to continue to fight this as far as necessary.
What is likely to happen next?
Title: Re: Parking Eye PCN - 0 Hours 0 Minutes - KFC Walkden, Salford
Post by: DWMB2 on October 14, 2024, 04:04:07 pm
If you're continuing to fight, then the ball is now essentially in ParkingEye's court, and you are waiting to see if they decide to take the matter to court
Title: Re: Parking Eye PCN - 0 Hours 0 Minutes - KFC Walkden, Salford
Post by: b789 on October 14, 2024, 04:02:48 pm
No big deal. You are not bound by the POPLA decision. Did you respond to the Operator Response Pack?

Did you reiterate the point about PoFA 9(2)(e)(i) and the lack of an "invitation" to the Keeper to pay the charge in the NtK? The assessor has not mentioned that point and has only looked at timeline of issue. It was important to point out that "partial or even substantial compliance with PoFA is not sufficient". Not that it will change any POPLA decision but I'd certainly make a complaint to POPLA about this failure to consider the point raised and that they need to fully educate their assessors in understanding that FULL compliance with PoFA is required in order to transfer liability from the driver to the keeper.

If you feel aggrieved enough by this unfair PCN and you want to fight it, then let us know and we will advise on what happens next. We successfully defend 99% of these PCNs.
Title: Re: Parking Eye PCN - 0 Hours 0 Minutes - KFC Walkden, Salford
Post by: bdu7 on October 14, 2024, 03:44:56 pm
Good afternoon all,

Finally received a response from POPLA and they have stated the appeal was unsuccessful. The following information was provided;

The appellant has raised the following points from their grounds of appeal: • The Notice to Keeper (NTK) does not comply with PoFA. • The operator has not shown the person they are pursuing is the driver. • The signage is deficient and there are no ground markings to delineate the different car parks which have different terms. • The signs are contradictory by advising of a 1 hour max stay. • There is no evidence of landowner authority. • The operator has breached the joint single Code of Practice. The appellant has expanded on their grounds of appeal after reviewing the operators evidence pack and states they operator has not responded to points 1 and 2 and the notice does not comply with PoFA and the operator cannot demonstrate who was driving. The LOA only runs for 3 years and rolls over subject to clause 8, but as clause 8 is redacted no proper oversight can be seen. The appellant has provided the following as evidence to support their appeal: • A copy of the PCN and images of signs from site. The above evidence will be considered in making our determination.

Their decision is as follows;

POPLA is a single stage appeal service, we are impartial and independent of the sector. We consider the evidence provided by both parties to assess whether the PCN has been issued correctly by the parking operator and to determine if the driver has complied with the terms and conditions for the use of the car park or site. Our remit only extends to allowing or refusing an appeal. I acknowledge the appellants grounds of appeal and evidence provided of the PCN and images of signs on site. I note the signs advise there is a 1 hour max stay between 10am and midnight, no parking is permitted outside the times on the signs. I appreciate the appellant was not the driver and as such, I need to establish if the operator has complied with the requirements of the Protection of Freedoms Act (PoFA) 2012. For the operator to transfer liability for unpaid parking charges from the driver of the vehicle, to the registered keeper of the vehicle, the regulations laid out in PoFA must be adhered to. The Protection of Freedom Act 2012 (PoFA) schedule 4, is a piece of legislation which enables operators to pursue the keeper of a vehicle when they do not have the drivers name or contact details. I have reviewed the PCN and note that the breach occurred on 11th June 2024, and the PCN was issued on 14th June 2024, well within 14 days specified in PoFA. The Notice to Keeper goes on to state that if after 29 days the full amount has not been paid and they do not know the name and address of the driver, they have the right to purse the registered keeper. It also instructs the keeper to pass the notice to the driver. As such, I must conclude that the operator has complied with the requirements of PoFA and can hold the keeper liable. I have reviewed the parking operators evidence pack, and it has provided images of signs throughout the site and upon entry which make the terms clear, and parking is free for 1 hour but only between 10am and midnight as stated above. The appellants own images demonstrate this and it’s the responsibility of the driver to review the signs once parked and comply. I note there is a McDonald’s restaurant on the other side of the site, but this is separated by a road as demonstrated by the operator’s evidence pack. I find this more than clear to show that the two sites are clearly different, and the driver parked on the KFC site for 18 minutes from 09:32 to 09:51, when no parking was permitted. The BPA Code of Practice section 7.1 relates to written authorisation and states: If you do not own the land on which you are carrying out parking management, you must have the written authorisation of the landowner (or their appointed agent). The written confirmation must be given before you can start operating on the land in question and give you the authority to carry out all the aspects of car park management for the site that you are responsible for. In particular, it must say that the landowner (or their appointed agent) requires you to keep to the Code of Practice and that you have the authority to pursue outstanding parking charges. I have reviewed the landowner agreement provided by the operator and it clearly outlines the site in question, has a start date of February 2020 and an initial term of 3 years, rolling thereafter unless cancelled. The agreement is signed by both parties, and I find this more than sufficient to demonstrate the operator has authority to issue PCN’s on the land in question. I note that section 8 has been redacted but this only relates to ending the agreement or service. This only outlines how the landowner can end the agreement and as no agreement cancellation has been provided and the fact that signs are still in place on site, I find that the operator still has authority to issue PCN’s. The joint single Code of Practice only became active on 1st October 2024, as the breach occurred in June 2024, it is not bound by the new code. I must re-iterate that as the driver parked on site for 18 minutes before 10am, during the no parking period, the PCN was issued correctly. After considering the evidence, I can see that the terms of parking were made clear, and that the driver broke them by remaining on site without authorisation. I am satisfied that the PCN was issued correctly and refuse this appeal. Any questions relating to payment of the parking charge should be directed to the operator.

I would greatly appreciate some advice on what to do next,

Many thanks!
Title: Re: Parking Eye PCN - 0 Hours 0 Minutes - KFC Walkden, Salford
Post by: b789 on August 06, 2024, 01:07:15 pm
In your POPLA appeal, did you dispute landowner authority? Did you state the following in the appeal:

Quote
The operator is put to strict proof of full compliance with the BPA Code of Practice as this operator does not have proprietary interest in the “relevant land” then I require that they produce an unredacted copy of the contract with the landowner. The contract and any 'site agreement' or 'User Manual' setting out details including exemptions - such as any 'genuine customer' or 'genuine resident' exemptions or any site occupier's 'right of veto' charge cancellation rights - is key evidence to define what this operator is authorised to do and any circumstances where the landowner/firms on site in fact have a right to cancellation of a charge.

It cannot be assumed, just because an agent is contracted to merely put some signs up and issue Parking Charge Notices, that the agent is also authorised to make contracts with all or any category of visiting drivers and/or to enforce the charge in court in their own name (legal action regarding land use disputes generally being a matter for a landowner only). Witness statements are not sound evidence of the above, often being pre-signed, generic documents not even identifying the case in hand or even the site rules.

A witness statement might in some cases be accepted by POPLA but in this case I suggest it is unlikely to sufficiently evidence the definition of the services provided by each party to the agreement. Nor would it define vital information such as charging days/times, any exemption clauses, grace periods (which I believe may be longer than the bare minimum times set out in the BPA CoP) and basic information such as the land boundary and bays where enforcement applies/does
not apply.

Not forgetting evidence of the various restrictions which the landowner has authorised can give rise to a charge and, of course, how much the landowner authorises this agent to charge (which cannot be assumed to be the sum on a sign because template private parking terms and sums have been known not to match the actual landowner agreement). Paragraph 7 of the BPA Code of Practice defines the mandatory requirements and I put this operator to strict proof of full
compliance:

7.2 If the operator wishes to take legal action on any outstanding parking charges, they must ensure that they have the written authority of the landowner (or their appointed agent) prior to legal action being taken.

7.3 The written authorisation must also set out:

(a) the definition of the land on which you may operate, so that the boundaries of the land can be clearly defined
(b) any conditions or restrictions on parking control and enforcement operations, including any restrictions on hours of operation
(c) any conditions or restrictions on the types of vehicles that may, or may not, be subject to parking control and enforcement
(d) who has the responsibility for putting up and maintaining signs
(e) the definition of the services provided by each party to the agreement

Besides the fact that they reference the BPA CoP v8 (2020) which was superseded by v9 (20240, have they complied with all the queries pointed out above, assuming you included that in the POPLA appeal?

As pointed out by @DWMB2, the initial term of the contract was for 3 years, subject to a redacted clause 8.

Point out that the operator has not rebutted the point that the NtK is not fully compliant with all the requirements of PoFA 9(2)(e)(i). Make sure you state that there is no "invitation" nor any synonym of the word, for the keeper to pay the charge. Point out that partial or even substantial compliance is not sufficient. Because of the failure to fully comply with all the requirements, they cannot rely on PoFA to hold the keeper liable.

Also point out that because they have failed to fully comply with PoFA, as the registered keeper you cannot be liable and the operator has not proved that the person they are pursuing is the driver.
Title: Re: Parking Eye PCN - 0 Hours 0 Minutes - KFC Walkden, Salford
Post by: DWMB2 on August 06, 2024, 12:44:31 pm
As a general rule, your approach to the comments stage of POPLA is to draw attention to any of your appeal points that ParkingEye have failed to address, or any bits of their evidence that are shoddy, undermine their arguments, and/or support yours - you can suggest that as they have not disputed these points, it can be assumed that they accept them. So, if they have not addressed your point around PoFA for example in any of their 31 pages of evidence, point this out.

I've only had time for a quick skim, but the agreement they have shared is valid for an initial term of 3 years and will be automatically rolled over unless either party terminates the agreement subject to clause 8, which covers termination. However, for reasons unknown, they have redacted all of clause 8. How can we be satisfied that the agreement is still in place, if they have not shown us the clause that covers termination, and the date of the parking event was after the initial term?
Title: Re: Parking Eye PCN - 0 Hours 0 Minutes - KFC Walkden, Salford
Post by: bdu7 on August 06, 2024, 11:42:41 am
We have received a reply from POPLA with information from ParkingEye regarding this appeal and have been given the opportunity to respond.

From reading the letter, this seems like a stock response as it hasn't really made reference to the points raised in our appeal, in particular the invitation to keeper. Furthermore, there is reference to the amount being a 'pre estimation of loss' which I understand is relevant, but again, not one of the points I have argued at this time.

We have seven days to comment, and would be very grateful for any further advice.

Thanks again!

Link to letter (https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/f5vd1k4ew9wxachvtmh8t/POPLA-Appeal-Response-Redacted.pdf?rlkey=efeyrx8fk6zlc1kxnafgn4wzg&dl=0)
Title: Re: Parking Eye PCN - 0 Hours 0 Minutes - KFC Walkden, Salford
Post by: bdu7 on August 01, 2024, 05:09:33 pm
Fantastic, thank you!
I shall submit it and update you further in due course!
Title: Re: Parking Eye PCN - 0 Hours 0 Minutes - KFC Walkden, Salford
Post by: b789 on August 01, 2024, 04:00:46 pm
Point #2 is because the appellant is a company AND because the NtK is not PoFA compliant, the keeper (whether a company or an individual) cannot be liable.

Also, try emphasising the point about no “invitation” for the keeper to lay the charge. Highlight the word “invitation” and explain that there is not even any synonym of that word that complies with the requirements of PoFA 9(2)(e)(i).

Imagine you are trying to explain this to a 12 year old.
Title: Re: Parking Eye PCN - 0 Hours 0 Minutes - KFC Walkden, Salford
Post by: bdu7 on August 01, 2024, 03:48:42 pm
Thank you once again @b789;

1.   The Notice to Keeper failed to fully comply with all of the requirements of Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 to hold the keeper liable. It did not include a mandatory invitation to the keeper to pay the unpaid parking charge, as required by section 9(2)(e)(i) of the Act – “The notice must… state that the creditor does not know both the name of the driver and a current address for service for the driver and invite the keeper: to pay the unpaid parking charges…” and section 21.11 of the Code of Practice 2024 – “The Notice to Keeper serves three purposes: It invites the keeper to pay the unpaid parking charge…”. Within the initial letter sent to ourselves as the keeper, there was no invitation, offer or request for us to make the payment of this parking charge notice.
2.   The operator has not shown that the person they are pursuing is the driver – They are pursuing a company, and therefore the entity they’re pursuing cannot be the driver. We, the company, cannot be held liable due to the operators PoFA failure in point 1 above. We are responding as the company, and a company cannot be the driver.
3.   The signage is deficient and there are no ground markings to delineate the different car parks which have different terms as per the attached photos. The signage provides contradictory information by initially advising motorists that there is a one-hour maximum stay for that area of the car park. There are no ground markings differentiating the different areas of a significant car park containing some 60+ spaces.
4.   The operator has not demonstrated that they have a valid contract flowing from the landowner to be able to issue PCN’s in its own name. No contract has been shown to our company, as keeper, to show the operator is permitted by the landowner to issue parking charge notices to keepers.
5.   The operator has breached the joint Single Code of Practice by failing to identify the location and the relevant land in their Notice to Keeper as per section 17.2.1.e – “All parking charges which are issued including:… e)Location including outward postcode…”. The letter received simply states “KFC Ellesmere Centre, Walkden”. This does not comply with the Single Code of Practice which states the full location including postcode is required.


Would this be sufficient?

Many thanks
Title: Re: Parking Eye PCN - 0 Hours 0 Minutes - KFC Walkden, Salford
Post by: b789 on July 31, 2024, 08:53:54 pm
Could do with fleshing out. You are leading the assessor to your points. Explain them as though the assessor is actually the tea-boy.

Point 2 is a bit feeble. They have not shown that the person they are pursuing is the driver because they cannot hold the keeper liable due to PoFA failure in point #1 AND your are responding as a company... Blah, blah.
Title: Re: Parking Eye PCN - 0 Hours 0 Minutes - KFC Walkden, Salford
Post by: slapdash on July 31, 2024, 07:45:48 pm
For later, should it get as far as payment.

- If the company has bought some bizarre form of premium parking that (unlike a penalty charge) is a taxable expense.

- If the company is VAT registered the above would be a taxable supply. There are certain obligations then on the supply to provide an appropriate VAT invoice.
Title: Re: Parking Eye PCN - 0 Hours 0 Minutes - KFC Walkden, Salford
Post by: bdu7 on July 31, 2024, 04:04:55 pm
Thank you both @DWMB2 and @b789 for your advice.
The appeal letter has been updated as follows;

The appeal is based on the following grounds;

1.   The Notice to Keeper failed to fully comply with all of the requirements of Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 to hold the keeper liable. It did not include a mandatory invitation to the keeper to pay the unpaid parking charge, as required by section 9(2)(e)(i) of the Act – “The notice must… state that the creditor does not know both the name of the driver and a current address for service for the driver and invite the keeper: to pay the unpaid parking charges…” and section 21.11 of the Code of Practice 2024 – “The Notice to Keeper serves three purposes: It invites the keeper to pay the unpaid parking charge…”
2.   The operator has not shown that the person they are pursuing is the driver – They are pursuing a company, and therefore the entity they’re pursuing cannot be the driver
3.   The signage is deficient and there are no ground markings to delineate the different car parks which have different terms as per the attached photos. The signage provides contradictory information by initially advising motorists that there is a one-hour maximum stay for that area of the car park.
4.   The operator has not demonstrated that they have a valid contract flowing from the landowner to be able to issue PCN’s in its own name.
5.   The operator has breached the joint Single Code of Practice by failing to identify the location and the relevant land in their Notice to Keeper as per section 17.2.1.e – “All parking charges which are issued including:… e)Location including outward postcode…”

Included with that are images from the site as one of our drivers has recently attended, and the original PCN letter with the limited location information.
Title: Re: Parking Eye PCN - 0 Hours 0 Minutes - KFC Walkden, Salford
Post by: DWMB2 on July 22, 2024, 02:54:15 pm
Those 5 points are a good start as headings, but you need much more information under each - they won't just take your word for it, you need to substantiate each point with an explanation and evidence.

section 20.11 of the Code of Practice 2018.
Before the joint Code of Practice, the previous BPA Code of Practice was version 9, published in February 2024, you should be using this one, not one from 2018.

2.  The operator has not shown that the person they are pursuing is the driver,
They're not pursuing a person, they're pursuing a company, and therefore the entity they're pursuing cannot be the driver.

3.  The signage is deficient and there are no ground markings to delineate the different car parks which have different terms,
Include photos to demonstrate this, and ideally refer to the Code of Practice on what is required.

4.  The operator does not have valid contract flowing from the landowner to be able to issue PCN’s in its own name,
I would rephrase this as requiring them to prove they have a valid contract, rather than stating that they do not (which we do not know at this stage).
Title: Re: Parking Eye PCN - 0 Hours 0 Minutes - KFC Walkden, Salford
Post by: b789 on July 22, 2024, 02:45:20 pm
You will need to expand on each point and lead the assessor through the reasons why each point is valid.
Title: Re: Parking Eye PCN - 0 Hours 0 Minutes - KFC Walkden, Salford
Post by: bdu7 on July 22, 2024, 02:31:39 pm
Hi all,

My appeal to POPLA is as follows. Your advice and guidance is much appreciated

Dear Sir/Madam,

This is an appeal on behalf of COMPANY regarding Parking Charge Notice XXXXXXXXX issued to vehicle VRM on DATE under POPLA Code XXXXXXXXXX.

The appeal is based on the following grounds;

1.   The Notice to Keeper failed to fully comply with all of the requirements of Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 to hold the keeper liable. It did not include a mandatory invitation to the keeper to pay the unpaid parking charge, as required by section 9(2)(e)(i) of the Act, section 20.11 of the Code of Practice 2018.
2.   The operator has not shown that the person they are pursuing is the driver,
3.   The signage is deficient and there are no ground markings to delineate the different car parks which have different terms,
4.   The operator does not have valid contract flowing from the landowner to be able to issue PCN’s in its own name,
5.   The operator has breached the joint Code of Practice by failing to identify the location and the relevant land in their Notice to Keeper as per section 17.2.1.e

Based on the above points, we request that the appeal is upheld and the Parking Charge Notice is cancelled.

We look forward to your prompt response.


Many thanks  :)
Title: Re: Parking Eye PCN - 0 Hours 0 Minutes - KFC Walkden, Salford
Post by: DWMB2 on July 19, 2024, 04:19:15 pm
Quote
You can do a bit of your own research with PoFA and the BPA/IPC joint CoP.
It may also be wise to refer to the old BPA Code of Practice that was in force at the time of the parking incident. That way, you can try to head of any arguments of "We can't be expected to have complied with a Code of Practice that hadn't even been published at the time".
Title: Re: Parking Eye PCN - 0 Hours 0 Minutes - KFC Walkden, Salford
Post by: b789 on July 19, 2024, 04:08:18 pm
You go to POPLA with as much as possible, including, but not limited to:

1. The NtK failed to fully comply with all the requirements of PoFA to hold the keeper liable.
2. The operator has not shown that the person they are pursuing is the driver.
3. The signage is deficient and there are no ground markings to delineate the different car parks which have different terms.
4. The operator does not have valid contract flowing from the landowner to be able to issue PCNs in its own name.
5. The operator has breached the joint Code of Practice by failing to denied the location ad the relevant land in their NtK.

Start to put something together with those points and show us before you send anything. You can do a bit of your own research with PoFA (https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2012/9/schedule/4/enacted) and the BPA/IPC joint CoP (https://www.britishparking.co.uk/write/Documents/AOS/NEW%20Redesigned%20Documents/sectorsingleCodeofPracticeVersion1260624.pdf).
Title: Re: Parking Eye PCN - 0 Hours 0 Minutes - KFC Walkden, Salford
Post by: bdu7 on July 19, 2024, 01:24:45 pm
Hi,

Sorry to bump this topic back up again

I'm just after some advice on my next steps now that I have received this reply from the parking company.
do I go to POPLA with the same argument, adding in the lack of postcode information, or do I need to add something else to this appeal too?

Many thanks
Title: Re: Parking Eye PCN - 0 Hours 0 Minutes - KFC Walkden, Salford
Post by: bdu7 on July 08, 2024, 02:40:41 pm
My apologies b789 I must have missed that when replying last.
I've attached a map of the layout of the parking at this location. There are two car park areas in that part of the retail park. You are correct, the car was parked on the 'KFC side' (blue), and the driver went to McDonalds - which also has it's own parking area but that seems to be part of the drive thru. I'm not aware of any signs in the other parking area (red), and the driver won't be going back there for quite a while to check. There also isn't anything indicative on google maps unfortunately.

Parking areas (https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/55u9n2mmy5nupjpzm7rhv/Screenshot-2024-06-25-at-22.02.00.jpg?rlkey=ei5gtid2ftxv0tv3igpj1ulo7&dl=0)

The NtK simply states 'KFC ELLESMERE CENTRE, WALKDEN' there is no postcode listed anywhere within their documentation.

Thanks  :)
Title: Re: Parking Eye PCN - 0 Hours 0 Minutes - KFC Walkden, Salford
Post by: b789 on July 08, 2024, 01:19:32 pm
On the 25th June, I asked the following questions which you never answered:

The sign you have shown us clearly states that parking outside of the hours advised is verboten. Was the car park for KFC and it did not open until 10am but you parked there and went to the McDs which is a separate car park? How are the two car parks delineated? Are they both operated by PE? What do the signs for the McDs car park state?

Interestingly, the new Joint CoP recently published and according to their blurb, became effective on the 27th June 2024, has a clause at 17.2.1 which states:

17.2. Parking Charges

17.2.1. All parking charges which are issued including:

a) Unique identifier (Parking Charge Number)
b) Date of contravention
c) Time of contravention
d) Date of issue of first notice
e) Location including outward postcode
f) Reason for issue (contravention)
g) Status
Paid at the appeals charter reduced rate, paid at the reduced
rate, paid full rate, cancelled, unpaid, paid at escalation stage.

Does your NtK state the post code of the location of the alleged breach of contract?
Title: Re: Parking Eye PCN - 0 Hours 0 Minutes - KFC Walkden, Salford
Post by: bdu7 on July 08, 2024, 12:04:47 pm
Hi all,

So I have, as expected, received a response from Parkingeye that my appeal was rejected and they have provided a POPLA code.

Link to appeal reply (https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/qket21mu5jn96fdx6s4nh/ParkingEye-Appeal-Reply-Redacted.pdf?rlkey=2llh3sn679x5mhyabnslrg9qk&dl=0)
(Apologies, I'm unable to upload directly to this post for some reason)

Can you please advise what my next steps are?

I assume an appeal to POPLA along the same lines?

Many thanks  :)
Title: Re: Parking Eye PCN - 0 Hours 0 Minutes - KFC Walkden, Salford
Post by: bdu7 on June 25, 2024, 09:56:24 pm
Really appreciate that, thank you!
Title: Re: Parking Eye PCN - 0 Hours 0 Minutes - KFC Walkden, Salford
Post by: b789 on June 25, 2024, 06:10:52 pm
It is unlikely that PE will uphold an appeal but you'd have a better chance with POPLA. I would suggest you send the following appeal in the name of the company without identifying the driver. The reason is that there's a technical flaw in the NtK as they have not fully complied with the requirements of PoFA 9(2)(e)(i) as there is no invitation (nor any synonym of the word) for the keeper to pay the charge.

This is an appeal on behalf of [Your Company Name] regarding Parking Charge Notice [PCN Reference Number] issued to vehicle [Vehicle Registration Number] on [Date of Incident].

Upon reviewing the Notice to Keeper (NtK), we have identified that it does not comply with the requirements set out in the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (PoFA), Schedule 4. Specifically, the NtK fails to include the mandatory invitation to the keeper to pay the unpaid parking charge, as required by PoFA 9(2)(e)(i).

Due to this omission, the Notice to Keeper is not compliant with PoFA, and as such, [Your Company Name], as the registered keeper of the vehicle, is not liable for the alleged parking charge. Furthermore, we are not obliged to identify the driver at the time of the incident.

Based on the above points, we request that you cancel the Parking Charge Notice immediately. If you do not cancel the charge, please provide a POPLA code so that we may refer this matter to the independent appeals service.

We look forward to your prompt confirmation that this Parking Charge Notice has been cancelled.
Title: Re: Parking Eye PCN - 0 Hours 0 Minutes - KFC Walkden, Salford
Post by: b789 on June 25, 2024, 05:59:52 pm
It's not a Penalty Charge Notice. It's a Parking Charge Notice. Big difference.

Only an authority such as a council or the police can issue a penalty charge. An unregulated private parking company can only issue a Parking Charge Notice which is an officious way of avoiding its real name... an invoice.

The sign you have shown us clearly states that parking outside of the hours advised is verboten. Was the car park for KFC and it did not open until 10am but you parked there and went to the McDs which is a separate car park? How are the two car parks delineated? Are they both operated by PE? What do the signs for the McDs car park state?
Title: Re: Parking Eye PCN - 0 Hours 0 Minutes - KFC Walkden, Salford
Post by: bdu7 on June 25, 2024, 12:36:56 pm
Hi all,

Apologies as this isn't something I have dealt with before. What would be our next steps for this penalty charge notice?

Many thanks  :)
Title: Re: Parking Eye PCN - 0 Hours 0 Minutes - KFC Walkden, Salford
Post by: bdu7 on June 20, 2024, 12:42:33 pm
Hi,
Yes, the PCN is addressed to the company name, and the vehicle is for use by employees.

No, the vehicle has been purchased by the company, it isn't a lease.

Thanks  :)
Title: Re: Parking Eye PCN - 0 Hours 0 Minutes - KFC Walkden, Salford
Post by: Dave65 on June 20, 2024, 10:26:38 am
When you say I received the PPN, who was it addressed to?
Was it addressed to the company name?
Is the vehicle on lease?
Title: Parking Eye PCN - 0 Hours 0 Minutes - KFC Walkden, Salford
Post by: bdu7 on June 19, 2024, 12:49:40 pm
Hi all,
The car park in question is next to a McDonalds and KFC. The car was parked on the 'KFC side' for 18 minutes whilst the driver was inside McDonalds.
It turns out that the car park is effectively 'closed' until 10am, despite being on a retail park that was fully open.
The vehicle is registered to my company (Director), and I received the attached PCN on 19/06.

Link to images and letter (https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fo/pi64ew7ugauj9e4pjvvv6/AKgcigEcWHtGX1DIjoYd4es?rlkey=hjyll5z84un8nht5h30mpk272&dl=0)