Free Traffic Legal Advice

Live cases legal advice => Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) => Topic started by: BlueDog8 on July 19, 2023, 11:17:39 pm

Title: Re: PCN Bromley, code 62 parked with wheels on a footpath, Elmstead Lane
Post by: mrmustard on December 21, 2023, 11:41:41 pm
The Notice to Owner cannot be served on you (not just sent to you) after the expiry of 6 months starting with the date of the alleged contravention.

With a bit of luck the change of address notification will slow the system down and the Notice to Owner may reach you after 18 January 2024 and if that is the case you can simply tell the council they are legally out of time.

I think this was a shared use footpath (having gone up and down the road on google street view) and I'm a big cyclist (I also drive) so unimpressed with the parking but I am even less impressed with the wroding of the council's PCN so could beat this PCN at the tribunal based upon my recent experiences there.
Title: Re: PCN Bromley, code 62 parked with wheels on a footpath, Elmstead Lane
Post by: BlueDog8 on December 21, 2023, 07:11:37 pm
Hi,

We received what we believe may have been the notice to owner at my mums address (they sent it to the wrong one). However, we've since mislaid the letter before it was opened and are still looking for it (actually true believe it or not).

My wife then got the following letter (yesterday, 20th Dec), a second Notice of Rejection of Challenge (that implies another Notice to Owner is on the way?).

Any advice much appreciated.

Thanks and merry Christmas!

Thomas

*************************************

THE LONDON BOROUGH of BROMLEY

Our Ref: BY20081824

121APC211 684730000034
E Maxwell-Alywim
182 Elmstead Lane
Chislehurst
Kent
BR75EN

19/12/2023

Dear Sir/Madam,

Traffic Management Act 2004 (as amended)

Penalty Charge Notice number: BY20081824
Vehicle Registration: MX15WEL
Contravention Date: 18/07/2023
Contravention Time: 10:06
Location: ELMSTEAD LANE, CHISLEHURST

Notice of Rejection of Challenge

Thank you for your recent communication in connection with the above Penalty Charge
Notice (PCN).

The PCN was issued as your vehicle was parked with one or more wheels on any part of the road other than a carriageway.

Having reviewed the case, we have decided not to cancel the PCN. The reasons for our
decision and the options available to you at this stage are set out below.

Your correspondence indicates that you were not aware of the restriction and we are
therefore required to check the clarity and accuracy of the footway parking at ELMSTEAD LANE, CHISLEHURST.

Parking on the footway has been banned across London since 1985. It is only permitted in areas exempted by the Local Authority, and there must be blue signs showing how you may park. There is no requirement for signage where there are no exemptions as the ban is London wide.

In some Bromley roads white marked bays are provided to confirm exactly where exemptions apply, however, there are also roads where an area of the footway has been made exempt and there are no white marked bays. If white marked bays are provided, then you must ensure that you park fully within said bays to be exempt from the ban. Footway parking exemption bays are only ever marked on the flat sections of the pavement, never on dropped footway sections or grass verges etc.

Having checked the photographic evidence available for this case, we are satisfied that the signs/lines are correct and in line with the regulations.

If you would like to view the evidence we have in relation to this notice, then please logon to: www.bromley.qov.uk/parkinq and follow links to pay/appeal your PCN. When prompted, enter your PCN number and vehicle registration details, the available evidence can then be accessed using the 'View Evidence' button towards the bottom of the screen.

Going forward
The discount payment amount of £55.00 has been reinstated so you can pay and close the
case. You have 14 days from the date of this letter being served to do this. This is Notice will be taken to have been served on the second working day after the date of posting (shown above) unless you can show that it was not.

You can pay £110.00 if you pay outside this period. You have 28 days from the date of this Notice being served to do this.

Alternatively, if you wish to make formal representations regarding the PCN you will need to wait for the Notice to Owner (NtO) to be sent to the registered keeper of the vehicle. They will then be able to submit formal representations to the Council.

Act now
If, after 28 days, you have taken no action, we will send the NtO to the registered keeper of the vehicle. They will then have 28 days to pay the charge or submit formal representations against the PCN to the Council.

How to pay
Payments can be made:

• By Phone: 0330 088 4681 (24hrs debit/credit card) (Please have your PCN and
credit/debit card ready). You may make payment with most major credit or debit cards
(not Diners Card or American Express).

• Online at: www.bromley.qov.uk/parking

• By Post to: Bromley Parking Services, PO Box 1166, Wellington House, Uxbridge,
UBS 9BD. Please do not send cash by post. Cheques and postal orders should be
made payable to 'London Borough of Bromley'.

• In Person at: Bromley Civic Centre Payment Desks, Stockwell Close, Bromley, BR1
3UH, during office hours. Please ensure you have your PCN number with you.

Please note: Further communication may not be responded to the statutory options
set out above are the only options available to you.

Yours faithfully

J James
Parking Support Officer
Issued by Bromley Parking Services
Title: Re: PCN Bromley, code 62 parked with wheels on a footpath, Elmstead Lane
Post by: BlueDog8 on September 30, 2023, 07:32:20 pm
Thanks very much for your advice. On Thursday 28th September my wife (the registered keeper) wrote to the council and included a copy of her V5C with the new address on:

“Eba Florence Maxwell-Aylwin
182 Elmstead Lane
Chislehurst
Kent
BR7 5EN
28th September 2023

London Borough of Bromley Council
Civic Centre
Stockwell Close
Bromley
Kent
BR1 3UH
 
 
Your Ref: BY20081824


Dear London Borough of Bromley,



Please be advised that on the date when you allege a contravention took place, the vehicle was registered in my name at the DVLA at:
 
13 Red Hill
Chislehurst
Kent
BR7 6DB



However on the 19th May 2023, I moved to:
 
182 Elmstead Lane
Chislehurst
Kent
BR7 5EN
 
Therefore, this is my address for service. Service at any other address will not be good service. I attach the front page of my V5C as proof.



Yours faithfully,
 
  
 
Eba Florence Maxwell-Aylwin”

Let me know if I need to do anything further.

I’ll keep you posted of any developments.

Thanks so much, again,

Thomas
Title: Re: PCN Bromley, code 62 parked with wheels on a footpath, Elmstead Lane
Post by: cp8759 on September 26, 2023, 11:53:38 pm
Firstly in this context there is no "we", only one person is the registered keeper. Write to the council now:

Dear London Borough of Bromley,

Please be advised that on the date when you allege a contravention took place, the vehicle was registered in my name at DVLA and (full address and postcode).

However on (date) I moved to (new address and postcode), therefore this is my address for service. Service at any other address will not be good service. I attach the front page of my V5C as proof.

Yours faithfully,

If the council ignore this and send the NTO to the old address, there's grounds to claim a procedural impropriety on that point. Once you have the Notice to Owner, we can make a new representation dealing with all the various points.
Title: Re: PCN Bromley, code 62 parked with wheels on a footpath, Elmstead Lane
Post by: BlueDog8 on September 26, 2023, 01:30:54 pm
The old address is my mum's so we'll get the letter there.

How should I notify the council? Or doesn't it matter as we'll get the letter anyway?

What about their reply saying (incorrectly) that I told them I wasn't aware of the restriction? and nothing addressing that the cycle path is a carriage way and not a footpath.

I guess I should pursue it, it's not really fair.

So wait for the letter and go from there?

Thanks,

Thomas
Title: Re: PCN Bromley, code 62 parked with wheels on a footpath, Elmstead Lane
Post by: John U.K. on September 26, 2023, 01:22:22 pm
Quote
changed the address in the V5C yesterday.

You must notify the council of the change of address, otherewise the NtO will go to the addresds on the date of contravention - it may still do -what arrangements are in place to receive mail?
Title: Re: PCN Bromley, code 62 parked with wheels on a footpath, Elmstead Lane
Post by: BlueDog8 on September 26, 2023, 11:24:16 am
Thanks for the advice,

We’ve actually recently moved house. So my wife (the car is registered to her) changed the address in the V5C yesterday.

So what should I do next?

In their letter, the council said, “Your correspondence indicates that you were not aware of the restriction”

But that’s not what I said at all.

I said that the car was parked on a carriage way. A cycle carriageway. Therefore not a footpath.

What do you think?

Thanks,

Thomas
Title: Re: PCN Bromley, code 62 parked with wheels on a footpath, Elmstead Lane
Post by: cp8759 on September 24, 2023, 03:21:25 pm
Check that the address on the V5C is 100% correct and up to date, as that is where the notice to owner will go.
Title: Re: PCN Bromley, code 62 parked with wheels on a footpath, Elmstead Lane
Post by: BlueDog8 on September 23, 2023, 11:27:09 am
Hi,

I received a letter from Bromley Parking Services today:

Bromley
THE LONDON BOROUGH

Our Ref: BY20081824

121211L573049000073

Mr Thomas Maxwell-Aylwin
13 Red Hill
Chislehurst
Kent
BR76D8

22/09/2023

Dear Mr Maxwell-Aylwin,

Traffic Management Act 2004 (as amended)

Penalty Charge Notice number: BY20081824
Vehicle Registration: MX15WEL
Contravention Date: 18/07/2023
Contravention Time: 10:06
Location: ELMSTEAD LANE, CHISLEHURST

Notice of Rejection of Challenge

Thank you for your recent communication in connection with the above Penalty Charge Notice (PCN).

The PCN was issued as your vehicle was parked with one or more wheels on any part of the road other than a carriageway.

Having reviewed the case, we have decided not to cancel the PCN. The reasons for our decision and the options available to you at this stage are set out below.

Your correspondence indicates that you were not aware of the restriction and we are therefore required to check the clarity and accuracy of the footway parking at ELMSTEAD LANE, CHISLEHURST.

Parking on the footway has been banned across London since 1985. It is only permitted in areas exempted by the Local Authority, and there must be blue signs showing how you may park. There is no requirement for signage where there are no exemptions as the ban is London wide.

In some Bromley roads white marked bays are provided to confirm exactly where exemptions apply, however, there are also roads where an area of the footway has been made exempt and there are no white marked bays. If white marked bays are provided, then you must ensure that you park fully within said bays to be exempt from the ban. Footway parking exemption bays are only ever marked on the flat sections of the pavement, never on dropped footway sections, cycle lanes or grass verges etc.

Having checked the photographic evidence available for this case, we are satisfied that the signs/lines are correct and in line with the regulations.

If you would like to view the evidence we have in relation to this notice, then please logon to: www.bromley.qov.uk/parking and follow links to pay/appeal your PCN. When prompted, enter your PCN number and vehicle registration details, the available evidence can then be accessed using the 'View Evidence' button towards the bottom of the screen.

Going forward

The discount payment amount of £55.00 has been reinstated so you can pay and close the case. You have 14 days from the date of this letter being served to do this. This Notice will be taken to have been served on the second working day after the date of posting (shown above) unless you can show that it was not.

You can pay £110.00 if you pay outside this period. You have 28 days from the date of this Notice being served to do this.

Alternatively, if you wish to make formal representations regarding the PCN you will need to wait for the Notice to Owner (NtO) to be sent to the registered keeper of the vehicle. They will then be able to submit formal representations to the Council.

Act now

If, after 28 days, you have taken no action, we will send the NtO to the registered keeper of the vehicle. They will then have 28 days to pay the charge or submit formal representations against the PCN to the Council.

How to pay

Payments can be made:

• By Phone: 0330 088 4681 (24hrs debit/credit card) (Please have your PCN and credit/debit card ready). You may make payment with most major credit or debit cards (not Diners Card or American Express).

• Online at: www.bromley.qov.uk/parking

• By Post to: Bromley Parking Services, PO Box 1166, Wellington House, Uxbridge, 8 9BD. Please do not send cash by post. Cheques and postal orders should be
made payable to 'London Borough of Bromley'.

• In Person at: Bromley Civic Centre Payment Desks Stockwell Close Bromley BR1
3UH, during office ours. Please ensure you have your PCN number with you.

Please note: Further communication may not be responded to, the statutory options set out above are the only options available to you.

Yours sincerely

J James
Parking Support Officer

Issued by Bromley Parking Services






what should I do now?

Thanks very much for all your help

Thomas
Title: Re: PCN Bromley, code 62 parked with wheels on a footpath, Elmstead Lane
Post by: BlueDog8 on September 03, 2023, 05:39:23 pm
Hi,

Thanks all for your help,

Just a quick update to say I have had nothing back from the council since their email of 24th July to say:

"Dear MR Thomas Maxwell-Aylwin,

Thank you for your communication regarding the above Penalty Charge Notice (PCN).

We can confirm that your case will be held at the current stage, the charge will not increase while we investigate and our response will be sent by post as soon as possible, unless:

· your PCN is at Enforcement Agent (bailiff) stage, in which case you should contact the agent direct.

· you have been served with a Notice of Rejection, which sets out your statutory options. In these circumstances, there is no provision for further review and we will not make further contact until the case progresses to the next stage of the recovery process."

I'll keep you posted.

Thanks again,

Thomas
Title: Re: PCN Bromley, code 62 parked with wheels on a footpath, Elmstead Lane
Post by: cp8759 on July 24, 2023, 07:48:38 pm
Quote from: MMV Redux on July 24, 2023, 03:40:03 pm
Can cars motor along a footway? No, they can't because it's not a carriageway!
Yes it is, it might be a carriageway where motorised carriages are not permitted but that doesn't mean it's not a carriageway at all.

People seem to forget but bicycles, unicycles, horse-drawn carriages, cars, scooters, mopeds, HGVs, all are "carriages" for the purposes of the Highways Act.

LATOR does not apply to the Greater London Council (General Powers) Act 1974 so we can't use it.
Title: Re: PCN Bromley, code 62 parked with wheels on a footpath, Elmstead Lane
Post by: guest17 on July 24, 2023, 03:40:03 pm
Nope!

https://goo.gl/maps/ypCTFLrMVaRYwfsE8

It's a footway where cyclists may ride.

Can cars motor along a footway? No, they can't because it's not a carriageway! If they could the contravention would have been a Code 49 "Parked wholly or partly on a cycle track or lane".

Besides which it does not look like either a mandatory cycle lane nor an advisory one.

The only defence I can think of is that the cycle signs on the footway were confusing and misleading giving the impression that it was safe to park since a cycle lane is normally a carriageway. Therefore the Council falls foul of Reg 18 LATOR 1996 by placing inadequate signage.

Mick
Title: Re: PCN Bromley, code 62 parked with wheels on a footpath, Elmstead Lane
Post by: BlueDog8 on July 24, 2023, 12:21:21 am
Thanks very much for your advice, cp8759.

I've just submitted my appeal (online) as the following:

"Dear sir or madam,

The alleged contravention is "Parked with one or more wheels on or over a footpath or any part of a road other than a carriageway".

As can be seen by the parking warden's photos, the car is plainly not parked on the footpath.

A cycle lane or track is by definition a carriageway, because cycles are (just like cars) simply a particular type of carriage.

Please cancel the PCN as it has been issued incorrectly.

Kind regards,

Thomas Maxwell-Aylwin"

I've also attached a couple of files. A PDF of the URL (text) of the google maps location I had on this post and an annotated  picture (screenshot) of the location (attached to this post).

I'll let you know of any developments.

Thanks again for your help,

Thomas

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: PCN Bromley, code 62 parked with wheels on a footpath, Elmstead Lane
Post by: cp8759 on July 20, 2023, 09:52:07 pm
Photos:

(https://i.imgur.com/f1GOy0J.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/EnRr9pq.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/iqVVeSj.jpg)

The contravention is "Parked with one or more wheels on or over a footpath or any part of a road other than a carriageway", the car is plainly not parked on the footpath.

I would suggest a cycle lane or track is by definition a carriageway, because cycles are (just like cars) simply a particular type of carriage. There is a contravention code 49 - Parked wholly or partly on a cycle track or lane, but that is not what the PCN alleged and it's too late for them to change it now.

Subject to the views of others, this is the argument I would pursue.
Title: Re: PCN Bromley, code 62 parked with wheels on a footpath, Elmstead Lane
Post by: BlueDog8 on July 20, 2023, 01:25:31 am
Hi,

Thanks for you help.

The front and back of the PCN are the first two links in the original post.

Cheers
Title: Re: PCN Bromley, code 62 parked with wheels on a footpath, Elmstead Lane
Post by: Incandescent on July 20, 2023, 12:57:16 am
You will have seen my response on Pepipoo. Reason for this new forum is not empire building, (heaven forbid !!), but the problem with the Pepipoo site and its management. A recent lengthy outage revealed this, so this new site is an attempt to get round the problem.  Sorry the name is not as memorable as Pepipoo !

I can't see any viable appeal argument, and I have to say I'm very surprised, as a London area resident, you weren't aware of the London-wide ban on off-carriageway parking.  Whilst you are, IMHO, bang-to-rights, please post-up the PCN, all sides, so we can inspect it for possible fatal errors, as these have won at adjudications in the past.
Title: PCN Bromley, code 62 parked with wheels on a footpath, Elmstead Lane
Post by: BlueDog8 on July 19, 2023, 11:17:39 pm
Hi,

Any help with this PCN would be much appreciated. I was given this around 10am on Tuesday 18th July 2023.

I was parked outside my house on a cycle lane.

I parked there as parking in the road would have impeded traffic (although there are no yellow lines or parking restrictions).

The night before, I briefly searched on google to see if parking in a cycle lane was illegal. My brief search implied it was not.

However, I was given a code 62: parked with one or more wheels on or over a footpath or any part of a road other than a carriageway.

I wasn't aware of the rules about parking with wheels on the kerb were specific to London.

It should be noted that (moving from the road to my front garden) there is the road (with no parking restrictions), then the raised pavement with the cycle lane outside my house (where my car was parked, between, but not over my neighbours crossovers), then a grass verge, then a footpath, then my front garden.

PCN photos below (front and back):

PCN Front (https://www.flickr.com/photos/198770538@N04/53056253060/in/dateposted-public)

PCN Back (https://www.flickr.com/photos/198770538@N04/53056253065/in/dateposted-public)

photos taken by parking warden:

warden photo 1 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/198770538@N04/53055287192/in/dateposted-public)

warden photo 2 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/198770538@N04/53056251960/in/dateposted-public)

warden photo 3 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/198770538@N04/53055878156/in/dateposted-public)

warden photo 4 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/198770538@N04/53056251950/in/dateposted-public)

google street view location:

https://www.google.com/maps/@51.4257764,0.0...i8192?entry=ttu (https://www.google.com/maps/@51.4257764,0.0525445,3a,75y,166.03h,84.87t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1siZbmxuV1Ro7sp1GdnkzQLg!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3DiZbmxuV1Ro7sp1GdnkzQLg%26cb_client%3Dsearch.revgeo_and_fetch.gps%26w%3D96%26h%3D64%26yaw%3D205.61829%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu)

Thanks very much for your help in advance