Free Traffic Legal Advice

Live cases legal advice => Private parking tickets => Topic started by: Valheim on June 14, 2024, 04:19:47 pm

Title: Re: UKPC PC for not displaying staff permit
Post by: Valheim on June 20, 2024, 08:47:39 am
Hi,

Just a quick update.

I've received an email from the hospital saying that they have asked UKPC to cancel the charge and they have received a response from UKPC that the charge has been rescinded.

Thanks to all who helped and advised (mainly contacting PALS as I'd never have done this and this got the charge cancelled).
Title: Re: UKPC PC for not displaying staff permit
Post by: Valheim on June 20, 2024, 07:14:23 am
If the evidence is all against me and a fight I won't win then I guess the easier option is to pay  :-[
Title: Re: UKPC PC for not displaying staff permit
Post by: H C Andersen on June 20, 2024, 07:00:43 am

You've already identified yourself as driver to the parking attendant, PALS, the hospital CEO(prospectively) and in this thread.

I wouldn't bother playing the 'appeal as keeper to a Notice to Driver' tactic.

The creditor only has to convince the POPLA assessor in the first instance and a judge subsequently that there are sufficient signs on site. And we've seen them in the previous post.

OP, what do you think?
Title: Re: UKPC PC for not displaying staff permit
Post by: Valheim on June 20, 2024, 06:45:06 am
Apologies about the late reply, I didn't get a notification.

The signs were genuinely missed due to the car parks being busy and looking more for a space than the actual sign saying it was staff parking (incidentally it was the space behind the sign that was noticed at first which made the drive onto that section of car park).

But if it's damning evidence then do you suggest I pay the lesser amount and be done with it?
Title: Re: UKPC PC for not displaying staff permit
Post by: b789 on June 17, 2024, 02:48:11 am
https://vimeo.com/959935974?share=copy

Pretty damning evidence here:

(https://i.imgur.com/dXurKJq.jpeg)
Title: Re: UKPC PC for not displaying staff permit
Post by: DWMB2 on June 16, 2024, 09:37:35 pm
Quote from: Valheim on June 14, 2024, 06:22:29 pm
I'll look to how I can upload the video somewhere for viewing.
Uploading to YouTube is probably the easiest for sharing.
Title: Re: UKPC PC for not displaying staff permit
Post by: Valheim on June 14, 2024, 06:22:29 pm
11th July is now in my Calendar as an alert. I'll look to how I can upload the video somewhere for viewing. Many thanks for your help so far, it is much appreciated
Title: Re: UKPC PC for not displaying staff permit
Post by: b789 on June 14, 2024, 06:13:18 pm
Do nothing until 11th July and then appeal only as the keeper. Make a note in your diary to do this. Do not say who was driving. You appeal as the keeper only. It cannot be stressed enough.

The reason for this is to tie them up in the appeals process at a time when they should also be posting a Notice to Keeper (NtK). Many PPCs in the BPA omit any NtK when replying to an appeal and the very fact a PPC forgets to send you a NtK by day 56, gives you a winning point at POPLA. Don't forget this tactic, and use it at POPLA stage.

Having appealed just before the 28th day after a windscreen PCN, make sure you take note of whether any postal NtK is ever received in the following weeks. A rejection letter with POPLA code is not a 'NtK'.

You must include 'no keeper liability' at POPLA stage if you do NOT receive a NtK at all in that time, and you will win as long as you make the missing NtK clear to POPLA.

Use the following as your appeal and either submit it as a PDF attachment to an email or use their web portal. Do not tick anything that suggests you were the driver. Select "keeper only" or "other":

Quote
Re PCN number: XXXXXXXX

I dispute your 'parking charge', as the keeper of the vehicle. I deny any liability or contractual agreement and I will be making a complaint about your predatory conduct to your client landowner.

There will be no admissions as to who was driving and no assumptions can be drawn. Since your PCN is a vague template, I require an explanation of the allegation and your evidence. You must include a close up actual photograph of the sign you contend was at the location on the material date as well as your images of the vehicle.

If the allegation concerns a PDT machine, the data supplied in response to this appeal must include the record of payments made - showing partial VRNs - and an explanation of the reason for the PCN, because your Notice does not explain it.

If the allegation involves an alleged overstay of minutes, your evidence must include the actual grace period agreed by the landowner.

In the meantime, continue with the complaint to the NHS Trust CEO and PALS.

If you still have the dash-cam footage make sure you keep a copy of it. If you can, it would be worthwhile showing us to see how bad the signage is. UKPC are renown for poor signage that breaches the BPA CoP.
Title: Re: UKPC PC for not displaying staff permit
Post by: Valheim on June 14, 2024, 05:57:14 pm
Hopefully this works

https://ibb.co/PDF5kLr (https://ibb.co/PDF5kLr)

I've just viewed my dash cam footage and I do actually pass some signage but it is impossible to read from a car

This is the signage https://ibb.co/ctqdS82 (https://ibb.co/ctqdS82)
Title: Re: UKPC PC for not displaying staff permit
Post by: b789 on June 14, 2024, 05:32:51 pm
PALS is Patient Advice and Liaison Service.

https://www.nhs.uk/service-search/other-health-services/patient-advice-and-liaison-services-pals

Please show us the the NtD that was affixed to your car. Do not do anything until we have seen it. Just redact the VRM and the PCN number. Leave any dates visible.

See this for info on how to do this:

READ THIS FIRST - Private Parking Charges Forum guide (https://www.ftla.uk/private-parking-tickets/read-this-first-private-parking-charges-forum-guide/)
Title: Re: UKPC PC for not displaying staff permit
Post by: Valheim on June 14, 2024, 05:21:43 pm
Hi b789

I shall find the ceo of the trust for the hospital and see if I have any luck, I'll also have a read through what you have linked (many thanks for that).

I'm not sure what PALS is (apologies). If it means the parking attendant he marched me down to where he took pictures and told me it was a staff permit area (there's a sign as you enter that part saying Staff permit only but it was completely missed when the car entered that section of the car park. No other signs near apart from the other side of the car park away from where the car was parked and it would not have been passed to have been read).

To add about the signage, the sign that has been photographed by the parking attendant was not passable by my car (other side of the car park as mentioned above). The only sign passed was a sign stating Staff Parking, Permits Only but no T's & C's to this. I will though revisit in the next day or 2 and double double check this.
Title: Re: UKPC PC for not displaying staff permit
Post by: b789 on June 14, 2024, 05:09:51 pm
What did PALS say when you approached them about this? Have you emailed the CEO of the NHS Trust to complain about the Pan and the fact that whoever it was you did speak to fobbed you off?

Have they followed all the guidelines from this document:

NHS car parking guidance 2022 for NHS trusts and NHS foundation trusts (https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/nhs-patient-visitor-and-staff-car-parking-principles/nhs-patient-visitor-and-staff-car-parking-principles#)

In particular:

Contracted-out car parking

NHS organisations are responsible for the actions of private contractors who run car parks on their behalf.

NHS organisations should act against rogue contractors in line with the relevant codes of practice where applicable.

Contracts should not be let on any basis that incentivises additional charges, for example ‘income from parking charge notices only’.

UKPC are a BPA member and so the BPA Code of Practice applies. There is a link to their CoP in @DWMB2s signature. Have a look at bits about signage and whether what you saw at the location  complied with the requirements as set out? Was it prominent? Was whatever was prominent fully legible (UKPC signs never, ever, comply with the CoP. What is obvious that you were parked in a restricted area? How was it delimited?

No one should pay a UKPC charge. If it ever got as far as a claim, they would discontinue before it ever got to a hearing.
Title: UKPC PC for not displaying staff permit
Post by: Valheim on June 14, 2024, 04:19:47 pm
Hi,

I'm after some advice if possible.

I've just been to the hospital to visit a family member. My car was parked in a bay, a parking ticket for 2 and a half hours was purchased and then went to visit. After an hour I had to go and I got to my car and there was a PCN from UKPC on my windscreen. The reason was my car was parked in a permit area without displaying a permit. I hadn't noticed the sign that said staff parking with a permit only at the entrance of this car park (located 1 turn lower but same layout as the pay for parking areas).

I went into the hospital with the PCN and the paid for parking ticket and they just fobbed me off saying I had to appeal it with UKPC.
Outside of there I was walking back to my car and I seen the parking attendant. I asked him to cancel the charge and he said no. I'd paid for parking but he wasn't interested and said my car was in a permit only area. He then showed me pictures of my car parked with the ticket on but in every picture he showed me there is no signage to say I'the car is in the staff permit area. Just a bank behind the car and some trees.
I've looked on the appeals site and the pictures are there and again nothing there apart from maybe the angle he's taken one picture to try and highlight the location shows I'm parked in a permit area but no signage in the photo. He's also taken a photo of a sign which to be honest I never noticed and could have been anywhere. The signage he's taken a picture of states No Unauthorised Parking. Am I able to enter into a contract with them if no contract seems to be on offer? Or maybe I'm just overthinking that.

£70 reduced to £40 if paid within 14 days but would happily fight this if I can.

Many thanks,

Valheim