Free Traffic Legal Advice
Live cases legal advice => Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) => Topic started by: Danger_B on June 12, 2024, 06:59:00 pm
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Looks like that car is EU18 LJC.
https://www.check-mot.service.gov.uk/results?registration=eu18+ljc&checkRecalls=true
They've apaprently modified the U to look like a J.
EU18 LJC is said to be silver. The car with the cloned plates, seen in the evidence video, is black. The OPs car is also black.
@Danger_B
There's no such model as a Nissan Duke, you mean a Nissan Juke.
Are you aware that the MOT on your Qashqai is showing as expired as of 10th May? Is your car maybe off the road?
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I received this today:
We have cancelled your Penalty Charge Notice (PCN) after carefully considering what you say.
It seems that the PCN was issued to another vehicle which is illegally using your registration number.
Thank you for everybody's advice.
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Looks like that car is EU18 LJC.
https://www.check-mot.service.gov.uk/results?registration=eu18+ljc&checkRecalls=true
They've apaprently modified the U to look like a J.
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There seems to be a lot of cloned plates around this Haringey area. Wondering if with all the roads they've been going down, they can be "triangulated" to a certain area?
Also you're right, its a lot of work for the victim. It's annoying that they can get away with it.
I've got about 8 fines come through from a cloned plate, also in the Haringey borough, I've used your appeal as a template. Thank you very much.
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I appreciate your help. I've submitted the representation. Will update once I hear back.
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@Danger_B I think the draft you've come up with with John's help is excellent and covers everything that needs to be said.
You will want to submit the representation online via https://haringey.tarantoportal.com/ and the statutory ground to tick is "Not the owner of the vehicle at the material time".
Annoyingly you have to say whether you're the registered keeper or not and there isn't an option for never being the registered keeper, so you'll just have to select "I was not the owner of the vehicle at the time of the contravention (I sold or bought the vehicle before or after the time of the contravention)", so I'd add a line to the text of the representation to explain that you've selected that box solely because the statutory option for "never was the owner of the vehicle in question" is missing from the council website.
Make sure to keep a screenshot of the confirmation page.
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THanks. I've made a few amendments.
See here.
https://jmp.sh/s/2IywNVDVtIsw9jQCgN2Q
I'm going to appeal and let you know outcome
Thanks
Last sentence of pdf 'make separate representations' as this ....
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I'm going to appeal No, you're going to make representations. Appeals come if/when council issue Notice of Rejection of Represenattions (NoR).
I'd leave it a few days to give the experts a chance to comment.
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THanks. I've made a few amendments.
See here.
https://jmp.sh/s/2IywNVDVtIsw9jQCgN2Q
I'm going to appeal and let you know outcome
Thanks
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I asked police for letter but they only give the crime reference number and this text message:
I'd print off a copy of the text and keep it in the car 'just in case'.
I've made further changes, revised PDF here
There's a weblink left in on page 2.
Also have uploaded 2nd page of the PCN. Think i can do appeal online.
Yes, you can.
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- I've contacted TLF but so far no fines, will call back in a week and check again.
- I asked police for letter but they only give the crime reference number and this text message:
Met Police: Your call reference number is: CAD 1699/13Jun24. Please contact the issuing authority to dispute your fine. We will update the Police National Computer with a report advising your number plate has been cloned. Cloned Vehicle are frequently detected by ANPR cameras. Please be aware this may result in your vehicle also being stopped. Please call 101 (select option 9) to advise the Police of any distinctive features your vehicle has to ensure you are inconvenienced as little as possible. If you continue to get fines, you do not need to contact the police each time, unless you continue to get fines after 4 months. However you will have to contact the issuing authority each time you receive a fine. You should try and provide any evidence that it was not your vehicle. You may also wish to inform the DVLA if it becomes a continued issue
I've made further changes, revised PDF here:
https://jmp.sh/s/ndKgU5ugbapo8OTenOzI
Also have uploaded 2nd page of the PCN. Think i can do appeal online.
https://imgur.com/a/WW1AGvw
Thanks again for your help. As a victim of crime it's a lot of work you have to go through to deal with the fines.
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Thanks for your comments. I've amended as per your direction and included images in a PDF. Not sure if it will upload but have given it a go.
https://jmp.sh/s/9kXV91SmiDZJ0M81wsTe
Sorry our posts crossed as I was editing with late thoughts :(
Your PDF looks good, but will need amending if you accept my later thoughts.
Any luck with TfL?
And the back of the PCN? Do Haringay allow online submission.
Do give the experts here a couple of days to chip in.
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Thanks for your comments. I've amended as per your direction and included images in a PDF. Not sure if it will upload but have given it a go.
https://jmp.sh/s/9kXV91SmiDZJ0M81wsTe
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First, I am not one of the experts here, so wait for others to comment.
Some thoughts in no particular order:
1) 4- Look at the thickness of font use on the offending car and also the slight curl on the letters J and C.
Also the two black dots (screwheads?)
2) Contacting TfL - Think you will have to ring: For more information, telephone us on 0343 222 3333 and ask for details of any outstanding PCNs against your reg.mark.
https://tfl.gov.uk/modes/driving/red-routes/penalty-charge-notices
3) I think your draft is very good. That said:
4) You don't need
Details of the PCN:
- PCN Number: ZN12683372
- Date of Issue: 11/06/2024
- Vehicle Registration Number: EJ18LJC
- Vehicle Make: Nissan
- Alleged Contravention: 52(M) Failing to comply with a prohibition on certain types of vehicle (motor vehicles)
- Location: Downhills Park Road N17 (Walpole Road Eastbound)(X3A)
- Time: 18:27
- Recorded by: Unattended roadside camera Ua132
You've already given the PCN number.
5) You need to convert the comparison pics to the larger size you get when clicking on links here (Haringey won't click) as jpgs and place in your submission doc.
6) Convert the whole document to a PDF and attach it to your online submission (info should be on back of PCN -please post here rest of PCN) I'd make a list of the differences in the main body of the reps and add the actuaL comparison photos with captions as an appendix, perhaps 2 to a page..
7) I'd use clearer pics of the clone in photos 1 & 2.
8)
I am writing to formally challenge the Penalty Charge Notice ZN12683372 issued to my vehicle, registration number EJ18LJC, on 11/06/2024, for an alleged contravention that occurred on 03/06/2024 at 18:27 on Downhills Park Road N17 (Walpole Road Eastbound)(X3A).
Replace with
I am writing to make representations against the Penalty Charge Notice ZN12683372 issued against my alleged vehicle, registration number EJ18LJC, on 11/06/2024, for an alleged contravention that occurred on 03/06/2024 at 18:27 on Downhills Park Road N17 (Walpole Road Eastbound)(X3A).
9)
Grounds for Appeal:
delete
I have reported the suspected cloning of my vehicle's number plates to the police.
Replace with
'The vehicle is clearly not my vehicle and the number-plate has been cloned. I have reported the suspected cloning of my vehicle's number plates to the police.'
10)
I have reported the suspected cloning of my vehicle's number plates to the police.
Did you ask them for some sort of note or letter in case you are stopped because of ANPR?
Hope this helps - see what others say, but do not miss deadlines.
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Thank you for your advice. Could you review the drafted appeal and evidence:
Also could you advise how i go about checking TFL for further offences?
Thanks
[Your Name]
[Your Address]
[City, Postcode]
[Email Address]
[Phone Number]
[Date]
The London Borough of Haringey
Parking Services
[Address of Issuing Authority]
[City, Postcode]
Re: Penalty Charge Notice ZN12683372
Dear Sir/Madam,
I am writing to formally challenge the Penalty Charge Notice ZN12683372 issued to my vehicle, registration number EJ18LJC, on 11/06/2024, for an alleged contravention that occurred on 03/06/2024 at 18:27 on Downhills Park Road N17 (Walpole Road Eastbound)(X3A).
I believe this PCN has been issued in error due to the cloning of my vehicle's number plates. Please find the following information and evidence to support my claim:
Details of the PCN:
- PCN Number: ZN12683372
- Date of Issue: 11/06/2024
- Vehicle Registration Number: EJ18LJC
- Vehicle Make: Nissan
- Alleged Contravention: 52(M) Failing to comply with a prohibition on certain types of vehicle (motor vehicles)
- Location: Downhills Park Road N17 (Walpole Road Eastbound)(X3A)
- Time: 18:27
- Recorded by: Unattended roadside camera Ua132
Grounds for Appeal:
I have reported the suspected cloning of my vehicle's number plates to the police. The crime reference number for this report is CAD 1699/13Jun24. The police have confirmed that they will update the Police National Computer with this report and advise that my number plates have been cloned.
Additionally, I have been advised by the police to inform the issuing authority and provide any evidence that it was not my vehicle involved in the alleged contravention. My vehicle was not at the location of the alleged contravention at the time stated.
Supporting Evidence:
1. Crime Reference Number: CAD 1699/13Jun24
2. Photographic Evidence: Attached are photographs of my vehicle taken recently, highlighting distinctive features such as
1- Shape of rear main lights
https://imgur.com/i0qB3MH
2- Shape of lower lights.
https://imgur.com/i0qB3MH
3 - Shape of bumper detail
https://imgur.com/TXdnfTY
4- Look at the thickness of font use on the offending car and also the slight curl on the letters J and C.
https://imgur.com/SBHkcgE
5- The offending car is similar to a Nissan Duke (our car is a Nissan Qashqai)
https://imgur.com/nYJlPnO
I respectfully request that you review this evidence and cancel the PCN accordingly. The cloning of my vehicle’s number plates is a serious issue, and I hope that this matter can be resolved promptly to prevent further inconvenience.
Thank you for your attention to this matter. Please confirm receipt of this representation and inform me of the next steps.
Yours sincerely,
[Your Name]
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I've received a PCN from Haringey.
Looking at the evidence provided and based on the fact that neither driver was driving the car at this time.
When I check the evidence online, I can see that the car in the photos isn't our car (it's similar), which raises my suspicion that it might be using Cloned Plates.
When I check online, I can see there is another PCN for the next day (not yet received), so I am assuming I might get a load more tickets.
Please can you help with advice? Do i go to the police and report it?
Thanks
(https://www.ftla.uk/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F%26lt%3Bblockquote+class%3D%26quot%3Bimgur-embed-pub%26quot%3B+lang%3D%26quot%3Ben%26quot%3B+data-id%3D%26quot%3Ba%2FCUV21x6%26quot%3B+data-context%3D%26quot%3Bfalse%26quot%3B+%26gt%3B%26lt%3Ba+href%3D%26quot%3B%2F%2Fimgur.com%2Fa%2FCUV21x6%26quot%3B%26gt%3B%26lt%3B%2Fa%26gt%3B%26lt%3B%2Fblockquote%26gt%3B%26lt%3Bscript+async+src%3D%26quot%3B%2F%2Fs.imgur.com%2Fmin%2Fembed.js%26quot%3B+charset%3D%26quot%3Butf-8%26quot%3B%26gt%3B%26lt%3B%2Fscript%26gt%3B&hash=4610f517a70efe2af91f67997b7f47383e341ea5)
1).Yes, report it and obtain crime number. Ask them to put an ANPR marker on your plate and to give you a letter you can produce if you get stopped.
2). Obtain the council photos and take some of your own car from similar angles, so building up a set where yo can show the differences between yours and the clone.
3). Make a reps against each PCN on the normal way (cross-referencing any others you may receive), enclosing copies of the photos showing differences. Put a draft of your reps here for constructive comment before submitting.
4) since the car is being used in London, you might want to check your reg aginst TfL's site for possible infractions..
5) You might want to add some distinguishing, reversible marks (coloured tape? something inside windows?) to your car.
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Here is the picture of the PCN
https://imgur.com/a/CUV21x6
(https://i.imgur.com/PtWqAxc.jpeg)
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I've received a PCN from Haringey.
Looking at the evidence provided and based on the fact that neither driver was driving the car at this time.
When I check the evidence online, I can see that the car in the photos isn't our car (it's similar), which raises my suspicion that it might be using Cloned Plates.
When I check online, I can see there is another PCN for the next day (not yet received), so I am assuming I might get a load more tickets.
Please can you help with advice? Do i go to the police and report it?
Thanks
(https://www.ftla.uk/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F%26lt%3Bblockquote+class%3D%26quot%3Bimgur-embed-pub%26quot%3B+lang%3D%26quot%3Ben%26quot%3B+data-id%3D%26quot%3Ba%2FCUV21x6%26quot%3B+data-context%3D%26quot%3Bfalse%26quot%3B+%26gt%3B%26lt%3Ba+href%3D%26quot%3B%2F%2Fimgur.com%2Fa%2FCUV21x6%26quot%3B%26gt%3B%26lt%3B%2Fa%26gt%3B%26lt%3B%2Fblockquote%26gt%3B%26lt%3Bscript+async+src%3D%26quot%3B%2F%2Fs.imgur.com%2Fmin%2Fembed.js%26quot%3B+charset%3D%26quot%3Butf-8%26quot%3B%26gt%3B%26lt%3B%2Fscript%26gt%3B&hash=4610f517a70efe2af91f67997b7f47383e341ea5)