Free Traffic Legal Advice

Live cases legal advice => Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) => Topic started by: t33d0t on July 17, 2023, 11:00:48 pm

Title: Re: PCN Bristol Council - A370 Brunel Way
Post by: cp8759 on November 18, 2023, 12:31:59 pm
So you did not receive the PCN before the 28 day period had already expired, in these circumstances I'd suggest you're entitled to make a witness statement on the ground that you did not receive the penalty charge notice.

However in order to do this, you need to wait for the debt to go back up to £198, then file a witness statement (not a statutory declaration) using form TE9 (https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1094509/TE9.pdf) (you can fill it in on your computer, no need to print as the court will accept a typed signature) and email it to tec@justice.gov.uk with the PCN number in the subject line.

Remember the applicant is Bristol City Council, not you (you're the respondent).

The reason we warn against contacting the council in these cases is because, as has happened in this case, doing so simply delays the whole thing, sometimes by several months.
Title: Re: PCN Bristol Council - A370 Brunel Way
Post by: t33d0t on November 15, 2023, 12:08:04 pm



Title: Re: PCN Bristol Council - A370 Brunel Way
Post by: cp8759 on November 14, 2023, 08:11:04 pm
Can you please confirm, to the best of your recollection, exactly when you received the PCN? Presumably this would be the date that you got back from abroad?
Title: Re: PCN Bristol Council - A370 Brunel Way
Post by: t33d0t on November 12, 2023, 06:46:07 pm
Sorry for the late reply, I've attached the letter.
I'll keep monitoring the site, it hasn't changed.

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: PCN Bristol Council - A370 Brunel Way
Post by: cp8759 on October 29, 2023, 01:07:00 pm
Please show us the letter you've received, but it very much sounds like you'll just have to wait for the debt to be registered with TEC.
Title: Re: PCN Bristol Council - A370 Brunel Way
Post by: t33d0t on October 26, 2023, 02:19:21 pm
I received a letter that said they reduced it back to £69 as a goodwill gesture, thats the only new one so far.

Online (https://ocmlive.xrxpsc.com/bristol/OCM-FE/OCM/Details.aspx), the amount never went to £198

I never received an order for recovery,
the site's cost has is at £69 and it's message remained the same:

Order For Recovery – Your case has been registered with the Traffic Enforcement Centre (TEC) at the County Court.  You must now either pay the amount due or make an application to file a Statutory Declaration

(even though it wasn't registered)

...does this mean this whole thing will restart?
Title: Re: PCN Bristol Council - A370 Brunel Way
Post by: cp8759 on September 17, 2023, 04:53:43 pm
That could be good news: If the council has reissued the PCN without going through the TEC process, service of the new PCN is a procedural impropriety (but again, do not contact the council as you don't want to tell them that at this stage).

Did the amount on the council website ever go up to £198?

In any case you should regularly check the amount due on the council website (at least once a week) and let us know as soon as it changes, also let us know straight away if anything else comes through in the post.
Title: Re: PCN Bristol Council - A370 Brunel Way
Post by: t33d0t on September 14, 2023, 04:22:28 pm
I received a reply from TEC:

Quote
Good morning/afternoon

Your Penalty Charge Number (PCN) is:

We can’t process your forms as they haven’t been completed properly.

Why we couldn’t process your forms:

● PCN  BS 53615683 has not been registered with TEC so we cannot help you. The Local / Charging Authorities send us files to register penalty charges. A PCN will only show on our system if the file has been successfully processed.


Not sure if it's good news or bad news...

Regarding if I received an order for recovery letter, no, but as of last week, I've been abroad and will be for a few weeks, and will be unable to physically check... doesn't help I know...
Title: Re: PCN Bristol Council - A370 Brunel Way
Post by: cp8759 on September 13, 2023, 12:42:01 am
So have you ever received an Order for Recovery?

Can you please call TEC back and find out whether the PCN has *ever* been registered with them?

Do not contact the council, if they've forgotten to register the PCN with TEC you hardly want to go and remind them.
Title: Re: PCN Bristol Council - A370 Brunel Way
Post by: John U.K. on September 12, 2023, 01:22:00 pm
Don't contact the Council without CP's say so..
While you're waiting for CP, take screenshots from their website of the Amount owing and case status.
Title: Re: PCN Bristol Council - A370 Brunel Way
Post by: t33d0t on September 12, 2023, 12:28:09 pm
I called TEC, and they told me the PCN was not registered with them, and that I must call the council itself,
Should I attempt to contact the council to find out it's status?

There doesn't seem to be a contact number, only another form: https://digital.bristol.gov.uk/parking/parking-service-contact-form



Title: Re: PCN Bristol Council - A370 Brunel Way
Post by: cp8759 on September 11, 2023, 12:21:05 am
Quote from: t33d0t on September 10, 2023, 07:45:09 pm
The amount owed also has been reduced to £69.00, does this mean anything?
That's a bit odd, as normally the PCN will drop down to £69 only once TEC has processed your witness statement and issued a revoking order, and Bristol's website says "Case Status: Order for Recovery"

I suggest you call TEC in the morning and ask them if your TE9 form has been processed.
Title: Re: PCN Bristol Council - A370 Brunel Way
Post by: t33d0t on September 10, 2023, 07:45:09 pm
There is an update on my case,

Quote
Order For Recovery – Your case has been registered with the Traffic Enforcement Centre (TEC) at the County Court.  You must now either pay the amount due or make an application to file a Statutory Declaration.

I've filled in the TE9 form and sent it. Good thing you mentioned applicant, I almost put my name there.

Should I expect a reply by email or by post?

The amount owed also has been reduced to £69.00, does this mean anything?


Title: Re: PCN Bristol Council - A370 Brunel Way
Post by: cp8759 on August 02, 2023, 06:04:52 pm
The next document in the chain is the Order for Recovery, which you then challenge by making a witness statement to the Traffic Enforcement Centre, the full process is explained here: https://www.trafficpenaltytribunal.gov.uk/charge-certificates-and-orders-for-recovery/

The statutory ground that applies to you is "Representations were made to the local authority or charging authority within 28 days of the NtO / PCN being received, but no Notice of Rejection (NoR) of Representations was received".

However you don't want to risk the Order for Recovery going missing in the post as well, so you need to keep an eye on the amount due on https://ocmlive.xrxpsc.com/bristol/OCM-FE/OCM/

Once the 14 day charge certificate period has expired, check the amount due at least once a week. As soon as it goes up to £198 or the status changes to "OFR Sent" or similar, you can download form TE9 and fill it in (no need to print, just type it out on your computer and save), remember you are not the "applicant", the "applicant" is the council.

Once that's done you can email it to tec@justice.gov.uk with the PCN number in the subject line and both the Order for Recovery and the Charge Certificate will be revoked.

The council will then refer the case to the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for the appeal to be decided on its merits.

Let me know if you'd like me to represent you at the tribunal.
Title: Re: PCN Bristol Council - A370 Brunel Way
Post by: t33d0t on July 31, 2023, 05:07:42 pm
So uh, no, I kept missing the opening hours of my local post offices so I paid for online posting and dropped it in postbox out of hours....
Title: Re: PCN Bristol Council - A370 Brunel Way
Post by: John U.K. on July 31, 2023, 01:07:17 pm
Have you got the proof of posting?
Title: Re: PCN Bristol Council - A370 Brunel Way
Post by: t33d0t on July 31, 2023, 12:27:21 pm
Hello, it's been a week+ since I posted that letter and recently received the charge certificate in the mail, attached, or alternatively:
https://acrobat.adobe.com/link/track?uri=urn:aaid:scds:US:b98c753f-979b-4b7a-9d5d-d2186d52e1a3

I don't know if this is because they didn't get the letter in time. They haven't responded to that yet.
Should I wait for a response from them until a certain time? What must I do next?



[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: PCN Bristol Council - A370 Brunel Way
Post by: John U.K. on July 19, 2023, 10:47:44 am
Post 1st class at Post Office and obtain (free) proof of posting.
Title: Re: PCN Bristol Council - A370 Brunel Way
Post by: cp8759 on July 19, 2023, 09:47:53 am
You'll have to send it in the post.
Title: Re: PCN Bristol Council - A370 Brunel Way
Post by: t33d0t on July 18, 2023, 09:24:12 pm
Thank you for this,

I'm was trying to find a way to contact them, I've sent it using their enquiry form (https://digital.bristol.gov.uk/web/guest/streets-travel/clean-air-zone-penalty-charge-notice-contact) but not sure this is correct.

They won't let me appeal it now using their service online (https://ocmlive.xrxpsc.com/bristol/OCM-FE/OCM/).

Was this correct? Do I have to do this by post instead?
Title: Re: PCN Bristol Council - A370 Brunel Way
Post by: cp8759 on July 17, 2023, 11:27:49 pm
It's at the council's discretion whether they consider your representations or not, so you need to make it easy for them to reject rather than disregard:

Dear Bristol City Council,

I am making representations out of time because I have been abroad and have only just returned to the UK, I attach proof of travel.

I have not been able to make representations against the PCN due to being out of the country, so I have now lost the opportunity to pay at the discounted rate and the council website shows the amount owed is £189. I must have entered the zone accidentally for a few minutes so I would ask if you would be willing to cancel the PCN on this occasion.

If not, I would ask that you at least reinstate the 50% discount.

Yours faithfully,

Once you have a Notice of Rejection, we can appeal to the tribunal on more substantive points.
Title: PCN Bristol Council - A370 Brunel Way
Post by: t33d0t on July 17, 2023, 11:00:48 pm
Hello,
I recently got back from abroad and had the PCN come through the mail which seems to have been sent almost a month after the incident in question occurred, I had been away for most of June and some of July so did not see this for ages until I got back.

I have all the ticket confirmations, any receipts etc. needed to prove this.

PCN pages are attached: [attach=1]
or otherwise the link here (https://acrobat.adobe.com/link/track?uri=urn:aaid:scds:US:ef5cb0d3-f8aa-3ade-b9bb-ecbc90113267).

I went to go at least appeal the deadline but all I get is the screen:
https://ibb.co/4VSYdvG

This post is actually following up of the other forum pages, the people there recommended I ask for help... tricky circumstances:
http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=150689&st=0&gopid=1787133&#entry1787133

I am not sure what next steps I should take on this, would at least like to reinstate the initial charge.