Free Traffic Legal Advice
Live cases legal advice => Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) => Topic started by: Chr1s100 on June 05, 2024, 12:19:09 pm
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Academic now as it has been paid.
Probably not relevant to this thread but if there's a formal NoR you can appeal to the tribunal even if it's been paid.
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Academic now as it has been paid.
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@Pastmybest wrong thread? I can't see a NoR on here?
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Thanks very much for your responses. This is really helpful and seems I would have had a chance to contest the charge.
Unfortunately, I have now paid the amount as I was concerned about getting too close to the deadline and forgetting to pay it and it costing more money.
I now know the instructions mention about how to attach images and that responses can take 7 to 10 days.
Whilst I had skim read the instructions, I hadn't looked at the details as this sort of thing isn't something I'm very good at. Also, I am using my phone for this which isn't the easiest to carry out this sort of thing.
I feel silly now and sorry if I've wasted people's time. I'll know better for any future issues, hopefully there won't be any!
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There are a couple of errors on the NOR
The delivered/service
and failure to mention adjudicators p0wer to extend the 28 day appeal period
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Thanks very much.
Struggling with attachments unfortunately.
@Chr1s100 you shouldn't attach anything, if you read the guide (https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/read-this-first-before-posting-your-case!-this-section-is-for-council-tfl-dartme/) it tells you how to post images, just follow the instructions please.
If you have any difficulties with the instructions please ask.
As a general rule you should post from your computer, this is not the sort of thing where you want to be faffing about on a small phone screen.
We have quite a good record at beating Redbridge bus stop PCNs.
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@Incandescent, I think this is from the Traffic Signs Manual rather than the Traffic Signs etc. Regs.
The regs provide that an 'upright sign' must always be placed to indicate the extent of the stopping prohibition. (I think your reference was to an optional waiting restriction should the stopping prohibition not be 24/7).
..the road marking ....lconveys the prohibition that a person driving a vehicle must not cause it to stop within the clearway—
(a)if the relevant upright sign placed in conjunction with the marking does not show a time period, at any time; or
(b)if the relevant upright sign shows a time period, during that period.
(2) For the purposes of this paragraph—
(a)“clearway” means an area of carriageway bounded by the continuous and broken straight lines provided for at item 9;[OP, this is the continuous 200mm thick yellow line adjacent to the kerb and the dashed yellow lines marking the other 3 sides of the rectangle]
(b)“relevant upright sign” means an upright sign which includes a stopping prohibited symbol and indicates that stopping by vehicles other than buses or local buses is prohibited, or prohibited during the period indicated;
OP, you've not told us what happened after you stopped and what the video will show.
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Further to my last post, I've had a quick look at the TSRGD and it would seem there is no requirement for a sign if the bus stop is in use 24x7 I can't upload a pic of the markings
13.24 Bus stop clearways
13.24.1. The significance of the bus stop clearway marking shown in diagram 1025.1 (S7‑4‑9,
see Figure 13-71) is specified in S7‑6‑1. Although there is no requirement for a traffic regulation
order, S7‑3‑3 makes it an offence to fail to comply with the indication given by these markings.
There is no specific requirement (under the Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984) to consult on
the introduction of a new bus stop clearway, but it is strongly recommended that those likely
to be affected should be consulted over the location and times of operation of the proposed
restrictions. It should be noted that taxis are permitted to stop in a bus stop clearway to pick up
or set down passengers. In Northern Ireland, the Roads (Restriction of Waiting) Order (Northern
Ireland) 1982 prohibits waiting at any time over the length of these markings. This would be
effective (in Northern Ireland only) at times when the prohibition of stopping did not apply.
13.24.7.
Where the bus stop clearway does not operate at all times, a prohibition of waiting might be required at other times. As it is not practicable to provide a yellow line to diagram 1017 within a bus stop clearway marking, the prohibition of waiting is indicated by an upright sign alone. This may be a separate sign or an additional yellow panel on the bus stop clearway sign. The two time periods showing the stopping and waiting prohibitions should not overlap. If a loading ban is also required, this may be indicated by upright signs alone as there is no requirement to provide the associated road marking to diagram 1019. The loading prohibition may be indicated by a separate sign or by a white panel on the bus stop clearway sign. A daytime bus stop clearway may be used as a “no stopping” taxi rank overnight. This is indicated on a sign comprising a single panel; the “taxi” legend and associated time period being a permitted variant of S4‑3‑2. In this case the road marking is to diagram 1025.1. Examples of upright signs are shown in Figure 13-72.
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Thanks very much.
Struggling with attachments unfortunately.
I will check signage in person to ensure still same as what Google maps shows.
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The broad yellow line tells you you are by a bus stop so should have alerted you to look out for the sign. However, this is a very long restricted bus stop, and the sign is right at the end on the Bus Stop sign with the bus route numbers, so you could argue it is inadequately signed. As far as I'm aware, the yellow line on its own is not sufficient to make it restricted, there must be a sign or signs.
If you want more advice, please post-up the PCN, all sides, with name and address redacted. Also have a read of this: -
https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/read-this-first-before-posting-your-case!-this-section-is-for-council-tfl-dartme/
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I have received a PCN for stopping at a restricted bus stop. I did stop there but did not realise that I couldn't stop there. There were no signs that communicate this information adequately for me to know this but perhaps legally there was sufficient signage or markings.
My question is what are the legal signage or markings required to appear for this to be valid and enforceable?/what would I need to evidence about the signage to appeal successfully?
This was on Wanstead high street heading towards Wanstead tube station in Redbridge. There appears from Google maps to be a sign at the very end of the bus stop where the bus shelter is (bus stop is approx 3 bus lengths long). I stopped at the start of the bus stop.
https://maps.app.goo.gl/w2y1GDVngMgPLrdn7?g_st=ac