Free Traffic Legal Advice

Live cases legal advice => Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) => Topic started by: Usiaw on June 04, 2024, 01:29:19 pm

Title: Re: Islington Penalty Charge Notice - Parked without payment of the parking charge (Upper Street)
Post by: cp8759 on December 08, 2024, 01:59:32 am

The outcome (https://drive.google.com/file/d/113z_rJkkslyYKgA0B2kVcWTpO9A4GjG7/view) was that after demanding £80 from the appellant, the council ended up having to pay out £84 instead. Whether they will learn their lesson, only time will tell.

Title: Re: Islington Penalty Charge Notice - Parked without payment of the parking charge (Upper Street)
Post by: Hippocrates on September 15, 2024, 12:36:23 pm

Yet another:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/london-councils-who-do-not-reoffer-the-discount-in-the-formal-notice-of-rejectio/msg36906/#msg36906

Title: Re: Islington Penalty Charge Notice - Parked without payment of the parking charge (Upper Street)
Post by: cp8759 on September 15, 2024, 11:22:07 am

Well it's now a no-brainer to appeal, I'll drop you a PM in case you'd like me to represent you.

Title: Re: Islington Penalty Charge Notice - Parked without payment of the parking charge (Upper Street)
Post by: Usiaw on September 14, 2024, 10:52:40 pm

Hi @cp8759,

Unfortunately, a Notice of Rejection came through the post earlier today. Screenshots below.

(https://i.imgur.com/NTzTAnN.png)

(https://i.imgur.com/jXomSuY.png)

(https://i.imgur.com/Qm3h0lJ.png)

(https://i.imgur.com/DLQFMcR.png)


Frustratingly, they ignored the primary part of the appeal (the GLA road part) and focused solely on what was (in hindsight useless/unnecessary) attempt at a secondary appeal. This is strange as their first rejection letter was very much focused on the GLA road-based challenge, even though both appeals were identical.

Would really appreciate your help with the next steps here.

Please let me know if you need any more information.

Thank you

Title: Re: Islington Penalty Charge Notice - Parked without payment of the parking charge (Upper Street)
Post by: Usiaw on July 26, 2024, 08:08:33 pm

Thanks very much. Just submitted that representation. Will update the thread once they respond.

Title: Re: Islington Penalty Charge Notice - Parked without payment of the parking charge (Upper Street)
Post by: cp8759 on July 26, 2024, 12:29:00 am

I've had another look at this and it's an almost guaranteed win at the tribunal. Just make a representation as follows:

Dear London Borough of Islington,

I require you to consider my informal representations as my formal representations.

Yours faithfully,

Send this online and keep a screenshot of the confirmation page once submitted.

Title: Re: Islington Penalty Charge Notice - Parked without payment of the parking charge (Upper Street)
Post by: Usiaw on July 12, 2024, 10:59:07 pm

Hi @cp8759,

The Notice to Owner came through today.

Here are links/screenshots of each page.

(https://i.imgur.com/jFkxOm8.png)

(https://i.imgur.com/ozl6bIF.png)

(https://i.imgur.com/FWXrDKq.png)

(https://i.imgur.com/d5DlmbF.png)

(https://i.imgur.com/rXwit02.png)

(https://i.imgur.com/x4WFETt.png)

Please let me know how best to proceed, or if any further information is needed.

Thank you,

Title: Re: Islington Penalty Charge Notice - Parked without payment of the parking charge (Upper Street)
Post by: Usiaw on June 14, 2024, 01:37:59 am

Thank you. Will update the thread once the NtO is received.

Title: Re: Islington Penalty Charge Notice - Parked without payment of the parking charge (Upper Street)
Post by: cp8759 on June 12, 2024, 10:43:43 pm

What a stupid response, just wait for the notice to owner and I'll draft a formal representation for you.

Title: Re: Islington Penalty Charge Notice - Parked without payment of the parking charge (Upper Street)
Post by: Usiaw on June 12, 2024, 10:04:59 am

Hello,

The council has rejected my challenge, unfortunately. I made the challenge on 9 June and have received their response this morning.

Within my challenge I included the draft representation from @cp8759 as well as some context and evidence to prove I was in the area for work (since one of their CEOs and their customer services representative said commercial vehicles are granted an observation period).

Relating specifically to the draft representation from cp8759, they state:

"While you note that the highway authority at this location is identified as Transport for London, it is important to recognize that the location is within the Borough of Islington's jurisdiction, and therefore, the PCN was appropriately issued in this case."

Screenshots of their rejection letter are below:

(https://i.imgur.com/2PjuLrD.png)

(https://i.imgur.com/NaJo2D8.png)

Title: Re: Islington Penalty Charge Notice - Parked without payment of the parking charge (Upper Street)
Post by: Usiaw on June 12, 2024, 12:26:17 am

Thanks very much for this, cp8759.

I have sent that across as my challenge and await their response.

Will update the thread once I hear back.

Title: Re: Islington Penalty Charge Notice - Parked without payment of the parking charge (Upper Street)
Post by: cp8759 on June 09, 2024, 01:12:50 am

@Usiaw this is an interesting case, as the road is a GLA Road, as show by the double red lines either side of the parking bays: https://maps.app.goo.gl/JQmLA6uSqPq15knc6

Item 2 on page 45 of the schedule to The GLA Roads (No.3) Designation Order 2008 (https://drive.google.com/file/d/1dmzc0AJXf0tw_JL5aRpLNt5nO-dbq-St/view) provides as follows:

A1 (HOLLOWAY ROAD, HIGHBURY CORNER AND RDBT., UPPER STREET, ISLINGTON HIGH STREET, GOSWELL ROAD), both sides from the Archway gyratory to the south-east side of.its junction with Goswell Road and Wakley Street

There is no exclusion for any parking bays falling within the council's remit, so this is a GLA road in its entirety.

Here is a draft representation:

Dear London Borough of Islington,

Upper Street is designated as a GLA road by the item 2 on page 45 of the schedule to The GLA Roads (No.3) Designation Order 2008. It follows that the highway authority at this location is Transport for London and not the London Borough of Islington.

Article 3(4) of The Islington (Charged-For Parking Places) Order (Consolidation) 2023 provides that:

"The designations and provisions imposed by this Order do not apply to any street or length of street which is part of the Transport for London Road Network."

It follows that the contravention alleged did not occur and the PCN must be cancelled.

Yours faithfully,

Send this online via https://islington.tarantoportal.com/ and make sure to keep a screenshot of the confirmation page. If you want to see Islington's traffic order a copy is here (https://drive.google.com/file/d/1hGdq17OtTcGnqJRzcIitHovRenHEiY6K/view), the map tile for this location is on page 595.

Don't worry if the council issues a rejection, it is highly unlikely they will understand the representation but that really doesn't matter.

Title: Re: Islington Penalty Charge Notice - Parked without payment of the parking charge (Upper Street)
Post by: Usiaw on June 04, 2024, 04:03:45 pm

Sure thing, here's a link the back of the PCN.

(https://i.imgur.com/7tkvJDq.jpeg)

Title: Re: Islington Penalty Charge Notice - Parked without payment of the parking charge (Upper Street)
Post by: John U.K. on June 04, 2024, 02:38:47 pm

Please to also post back of PCN

Title: Islington Penalty Charge Notice - Parked without payment of the parking charge (Upper Street)
Post by: Usiaw on June 04, 2024, 01:29:19 pm

Hello,

I would appreciate your advice as to whether I have valid grounds to appeal a PCN I received today.

I was parked for less than a minute before the CEO approached my car and began issuing the PCN, and I was back at my car within 4 minutes of initially parking (I know this as I started my stopwatch before leaving the car - an old habit - and later verified this with my dash cam).

Firstly, I was really under the impression that there was an observation time of 5 minutes before a CEO would issue a ticket, so I was hoping to be in and out of there very quickly. However, shortly after getting this PCN I spoke to a separate CEO who was in the area, and later an Islington Parking Helper/representative over the phone, and they both advised me that there is no observation time for private/non-commercial cars in that area, which was new information to me.

Additionally, as an aside, given the fact that the lamp post with the parking details wasn't viewable from where I parked, I would have needed to walk away from the car to engage with it so it's possibly not unlikely the CEO would still have issued me with the PCN whilst I was attempting to pay anyway. I was in one of the leftmost bays, near to the motorcycle bay, and the nearest parking sign is about 5-6 car widths to the right.

Secondly, my primary reason for stopping was that I was in the area for work (as an independent contractor) and needed to collect keys from a nearby key collection point (specifically a KeyNest point located in Islington Green - Arsh Convenience, 338 Upper Street, London, N1 0PB). So, although my vehicle isn't 'commercial' as such (i.e. a delivery van or goods vehicle), my reason for being in the area was work-related (what's worse is that someone else had collected the keys I needed before I got there, so my stop wasn't even worthwhile).

Would an appeal based on my work-related reason for being there as well as the fact I had nearly no time to pay (given the fact the CEO came up to my car 20-30 seconds after I moved away from it) be valid, or is this a case where I bite the bullet and pay the discounted amount?

Any advice would be appreciated.

Photos of the PCN and the parking details on the nearby post linked below:

PCN:
(https://i.imgur.com/HiJFGiG.jpeg)

Lamp Post with parking details:
(https://i.imgur.com/3dV2c2o.jpeg)

GSV of the location: https://maps.app.goo.gl/eppmvVLsr3oQmybu6

Thank you,