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Live cases legal advice => Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) => Topic started by: crazylasers on July 17, 2023, 02:03:41 pm

Title: Re: PCN Wandsworth Council - SW11
Post by: H C Andersen on September 11, 2023, 03:40:40 pm
Putting the facts together simply.

Traffic sign posts situated o/s 37/39 and 47/49;
The car was parked o/s 43 some time after 7pm on Tuesday(presumably 11th July) according to the OP;
Only a single suspension sign was erected (oddly the return says 'number of signs - 2' and gives a single location of 45);
Leaflets were delivered to numbers 41-51;
The sign was erected on 13th, checked on 14th and removed on 18th;
At least 3 vehicles were within the suspended area on 13th and issued with 'warning notices', but none on the 14th;
The suspension was for the whole of 15th for '2 car spaces outside 45-47..';
There aren't any marked parking spaces in this area;

If follows that:
According to the OP, the car was parked within the suspended area on 14th;
According to the council it was not;
The OP's account combined with the council's log means that the sign was present when the car was parked and for 3 whole days before the suspension came into effect;
Only a single suspension sign was erected and this was situated no more than 10m from the car which was facing towards it.
Neither of the two traffic sign posts in the vicinity was actually within the suspended area.
The council's leaflet delivery span excluded those properties which conceivably would take the post o/s 37/39 as their guide.

I'm still stuck on the first point which is whether the council's records or the OP's account is correct. Or perhaps this circle could be squared so that they're both accurate??
Perhaps the persons erecting and checking on the suspension signs did NOT consider that the car was within the suspended area or the car was moved after the date in post #1 are two options.
Title: Re: PCN Wandsworth Council - SW11
Post by: cp8759 on September 11, 2023, 11:11:08 am
This suspension was requested by a resident for a house removal, suspension logs:

(https://i.imgur.com/aQaZ8tz.png)

(https://i.imgur.com/6MvgJEu.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/0QpZlqF.png)

(https://i.imgur.com/IrMGRRP.png)
Title: Re: PCN Wandsworth Council - SW11
Post by: crazylasers on July 19, 2023, 02:17:10 pm
Thank you, I'll pass this on
Title: Re: PCN Wandsworth Council - SW11
Post by: cp8759 on July 19, 2023, 10:51:06 am
Draft reps:

Dear London Borough of Wandsworth,

I parked the car around 7 pm and walked back towards my house in a northwesterly direction, and there was no parking suspension sign on the regulatory timeplate attached to the street lighting column place in line with the boundary wall between numbers 37 and 39, which was the nearest timeplate to the car in the direction I walked.

Had a suspension sign been installed there, I would have been alerted to the restriction and would have known to move my car.

It follows that owing to inadequate signage, the alleged contravention did not occur and the PCN must be cancelled.

Yours faithfully,
Title: Re: PCN Wandsworth Council - SW11
Post by: crazylasers on July 19, 2023, 10:25:10 am
No, that is outside our house so we would have been aware to move the car otherwise
Title: Re: PCN Wandsworth Council - SW11
Post by: cp8759 on July 19, 2023, 09:40:53 am
Was there a suspension sign attached to this street lighting column? https://goo.gl/maps/ZfdfiCmFZGdKjKLAA
Title: Re: PCN Wandsworth Council - SW11
Post by: crazylasers on July 18, 2023, 06:16:52 pm
He walked away towards the rear of the car, and he would have parked after 7pm, can't be sure of a precise time
Title: Re: PCN Wandsworth Council - SW11
Post by: cp8759 on July 17, 2023, 09:27:39 pm
When exactly was the car parked?

Also, way did your brother walk after he parked the car?

In the meantime I've requested the suspension logs.
Title: Re: PCN Wandsworth Council - SW11
Post by: crazylasers on July 17, 2023, 02:05:56 pm
I posted this originally on PePiPoo and received this response:

Your car intrudes into the suspended area by about 18". I would submit reps pointing out this is a very small intrusion, and also point out you are a resident and would not have expected a PCN for such a trivial intrusion into the suspended area.

Are you willing to take the matter all the way to London Tribunals ? Councils rarely give way on things like this as the money is more important to them than service to their residents.

Title: PCN Wandsworth Council - SW11
Post by: crazylasers on July 17, 2023, 02:03:41 pm
Hi all,

My brother left our family car parked outside of number 43 on our road Tuesday evening, and realised on 15/07 that a parking suspension order was in place from 45-47, indicating the need for two car spaces for a removal van. The car was issued with a PCN as it was deemed to contravene that suspension order.

We received no prior warning in terms of leaflets for the suspension bay, and I've sent off an FOI request to the council for the suspension log to see when it was put up (as we think it may be less than the three days required).

I've attached some photos from the PCN and some from my brother illustrating the issue, the car is just in front of number 45, and there is plenty of room ahead for the work to take place (which you can see has been completed, as the removal van is in the background of one photo).

Any help would be appreciated, we have a residents parking permit for the road, and the car was only parked there due to another neighbour parking in front of our house (not a point for the case, just some irritating context).

Photos:
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1mJx0gY6W8UKNzWdk8459j2rUTFicNetp?usp=sharing