Free Traffic Legal Advice
Live cases legal advice => Private parking tickets => Topic started by: Nikos22 on June 03, 2024, 01:10:58 pm
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Where does the public highway end and the private land start? Is it at the lamppost with the sign or at the start of the steel fence? The streetlamp is not on private property as it is the same as all the other streetlamps on Fenton Rd.
This is critical to the case, as I mentioned previously. Was the car parked on private land or public?
Looking at the Land Registry map at https://www.landregistry-uk.com/map-search, it is somewhat ambiguous and not really possible to tell where the private land starts, as the car park and the whole of Fenton Road seem to be in the same "lot" of land. Coventry council's web site don't appear to have a definitive map of adopted roads, or not as far as I've been able to find.
The fact that the signage (on GSV) starts at the lamp post seems to imply that they think that's where their land starts. There is even a "bar" across the pavement at that point, though the road surface is the same. Only the local highways authority will be able to tell you for sure, so they need to be contacted and asked where exactly their land ends.
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Subject to some other comments from regulars, I would go with a complaint to start with.
My only addition to the discussion so far would be to see if you can get some sort of confirmation (e.g. from Land Registry or the relevant local authority) as to where the private land begins and where the public highway ends. The photos are useful, but this would make the case even stronger.
You don't need to wait for this in order to complain, but it would be useful evidence to have if they subsequently dig their heels in.
Some councils post lists (or sometimes even maps) of the adopted highways for which they are responsible - start by seeing if the relevant council publishes one on their website. If they don't, contact the council for further information - if they're not being too useful, explaining the situation might help; they might (should) take a dim view of a private company issuing parking charges on an adopted highway.
Regarding the IAS, I don't hold the opposite view to @b789, in that I agree with him that they are largely useless. That said, I usually take the view that if constructing your appeal to them doesn't take too much of your valuable time, then you've not lost much by trying. In this case, bringing to light the fact they're operating on the public highway might make them keen to avoid too much scrutiny...
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Personally, I don't advise wasting time with an IAS appeal. Others hold an opposite view. In fact, I was very surprised to read only today or yesterday on here of an IAS appeal that was conceded by the operator. Whilst that is not exactly a successful appeal, it was a success in that it forced the operator to concede defeat without having to see what the assessor would have said.
It's up to you. I you have the time and inclination to do so, be my guest and please show us what you intend to send before you actually do. Unlike the BPA which give you 28 days, you only have 21 days in which to appeal with an IPC operator.
Noted. Need to think about it but I will definetely let you know about anything I decide to send. I wish I could begin express how thankful I am of your support. Thank you!
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Personally, I don't advise wasting time with an IAS appeal. Others hold an opposite view. In fact, I was very surprised to read only today or yesterday on here of an IAS appeal that was conceded by the operator. Whilst that is not exactly a successful appeal, it was a success in that it forced the operator to concede defeat without having to see what the assessor would have said.
It's up to you. I you have the time and inclination to do so, be my guest and please show us what you intend to send before you actually do. Unlike the BPA which give you 28 days, you only have 21 days in which to appeal with an IPC operator.
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Well done on both embedding the image in the post and figuring out how you can show the EXIF data with the photo. Did you get any photos of the lamppost which definitely is not on private land?
Thank you for showing me! I will try and either go today or tomorrow morning to take a picture of that. Also, just wanted to ask if there is any point trying to raise an appeal with the IAS?
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Well done on both embedding the image in the post and figuring out how you can show the EXIF data with the photo. Did you get any photos of the lamppost which definitely is not on private land?
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(https://i.imgur.com/NBebJOx.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/WGhAeBT.jpg)
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It would be easier if you used the function I suggested in my PM on how to embed the images in the post rather than as links to them on Imgur. Like this:
(https://i.imgur.com/SeuRxEE.jpeg)
If you took the photos using your phone or a digital camera, then the date/time EXIF info is already embedded in the image itself. Just Google how to find the embedded image data. Here is a list of options that took a few minutes to extract:
To extract embedded image data, also known as EXIF (Exchangeable Image File Format) data, from photos you took with your phone, you can use various methods depending on your platform and preference. EXIF data includes information like the date and time the photo was taken, camera settings, GPS location, and more. Here are a few methods to get this data:
1. Using Your Phone
iOS:
Photos App:
Open the Photos app and select the photo.
Swipe up or tap the "i" icon to view the photo's details, including some EXIF data.
Third-Party Apps:
EXIF Viewer by Fluntro: This app provides detailed EXIF information.
Metapho: Another app that allows you to view and edit EXIF data.
Android:
Google Photos:
Open Google Photos and select the photo.
Tap the three-dot menu or swipe up to view details, including some EXIF data.
Third-Party Apps:
Photo Exif Editor: This app allows you to view, modify, and delete EXIF data.
ExifTool: A powerful tool for viewing and editing EXIF data.
2. Using a Computer
Windows:
File Explorer:
Right-click on the photo file and select "Properties."
Go to the "Details" tab to view EXIF information.
Third-Party Software:
ExifTool: A comprehensive tool for reading, writing, and editing EXIF data.
IrfanView: An image viewer that shows EXIF data (press I to see information).
macOS:
Preview:
Open the photo in Preview.
Go to Tools > Show Inspector and click the i icon to view EXIF data.
Third-Party Software:
ExifTool: Available for macOS as well, offering extensive EXIF data manipulation.
GraphicConverter: Another option to view and edit EXIF data.
3. Using Online Tools
EXIF.tools:
Visit EXIF.tools, upload your photo, and view the EXIF data.
Verexif:
Visit Verexif, upload your photo, and view the EXIF data.
I did take the photos with an iPhone, so I do have the day and date but I was thinking it needed to be "burned" on the imagine, like the CCTV camera for example.
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It would be easier if you used the function I suggested in my PM on how to embed the images in the post rather than as links to them on Imgur. Like this:
(https://i.imgur.com/SeuRxEE.jpeg)
If you took the photos using your phone or a digital camera, then the date/time EXIF info is already embedded in the image itself. Just Google how to find the embedded image data. Here is a list of options that took a few minutes to extract:
To extract embedded image data, also known as EXIF (Exchangeable Image File Format) data, from photos you took with your phone, you can use various methods depending on your platform and preference. EXIF data includes information like the date and time the photo was taken, camera settings, GPS location, and more. Here are a few methods to get this data:
1. Using Your Phone
iOS:
Photos App:
Open the Photos app and select the photo.
Swipe up or tap the "i" icon to view the photo's details, including some EXIF data.
Third-Party Apps:
EXIF Viewer by Fluntro: This app provides detailed EXIF information.
Metapho: Another app that allows you to view and edit EXIF data.
Android:
Google Photos:
Open Google Photos and select the photo.
Tap the three-dot menu or swipe up to view details, including some EXIF data.
Third-Party Apps:
Photo Exif Editor: This app allows you to view, modify, and delete EXIF data.
ExifTool: A powerful tool for viewing and editing EXIF data.
2. Using a Computer
Windows:
File Explorer:
Right-click on the photo file and select "Properties."
Go to the "Details" tab to view EXIF information.
Third-Party Software:
ExifTool: A comprehensive tool for reading, writing, and editing EXIF data.
IrfanView: An image viewer that shows EXIF data (press I to see information).
macOS:
Preview:
Open the photo in Preview.
Go to Tools > Show Inspector and click the i icon to view EXIF data.
Third-Party Software:
ExifTool: Available for macOS as well, offering extensive EXIF data manipulation.
GraphicConverter: Another option to view and edit EXIF data.
3. Using Online Tools
EXIF.tools:
Visit EXIF.tools, upload your photo, and view the EXIF data.
Verexif:
Visit Verexif, upload your photo, and view the EXIF data.
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Where does the public highway end and the private land start? Is it at the lamppost with the sign or at the start of the steel fence? The streetlamp is not on private property as it is the same as all the other streetlamps on Fenton Rd.
Can you go back to the location and get some up to date, time stamped photos to show that the sign is no longer there?
Even if the sign were still there it breaches the CoP rules on entrance signs which means that they have breached the KADOE rules.
This will require further examination but it certainly appears to be an attempt to scam you and shows the outrageous behaviour of these cowboys.
Subject to some other comments from regulars, I would go with a complaint to start with.
I took some pictures yesterday but they are not timestamped. I will go and retake them but here they are for now. It looks like they’ve moved the sign from the post to their fence.
https://imgur.com/a/pX7winC
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Where does the public highway end and the private land start? Is it at the lamppost with the sign or at the start of the steel fence? The streetlamp is not on private property as it is the same as all the other streetlamps on Fenton Rd.
Can you go back to the location and get some up to date, time stamped photos to show that the sign is no longer there?
Even if the sign were still there it breaches the CoP rules on entrance signs which means that they have breached the KADOE rules.
This will require further examination but it certainly appears to be an attempt to scam you and shows the outrageous behaviour of these cowboys.
Subject to some other comments from regulars, I would go with a complaint to start with.
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Is this the location you parked? (GSV clickable image)
(https://i.imgur.com/fASU4Is.jpeg) (https://maps.app.goo.gl/vnANpwPXYWEo5CRYA)
Just notice the signage on the pole. That is not there anymore as well as the double yellow lines leading to the gates on the right hand side.
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Is this the location you parked? (GSV clickable image)
(https://i.imgur.com/fASU4Is.jpeg)
Yes
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Is this the location you parked? (GSV clickable image)
(https://i.imgur.com/fASU4Is.jpeg) (https://maps.app.goo.gl/vnANpwPXYWEo5CRYA)
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The PPC
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And these are the photos they have in their website as proof
https://imgur.com/a/K7JVsmZ
Did you or the PPC circle the red vehicle in in the photos?
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Do they have ANY evidential photos of the vehicle either entering/leaving or in the actual car park? They have not provided any evidence in the NtK that the vehicle is anything other than passing their ANPR camera on the public highway.
The only other photo you have shown us is a CCTV still image of a car park with some cars, but not the keepers vehicle in it. Whether you entered the car park to turn around or not is not evidenced and their ANPR images suggest that they are harvesting VRM data indiscriminately.
I have listed all the laws that they have breached above. I would suggest a complaint (not an appeal) to the PPC telling them in no uncertain terms that should they not cancel the PCN and erase your personal data, you will not hesitate to pursue them for breaching all the mentioned laws.
This is just a suggestion and I would expect other regulars to offer their own suggestions:
I am writing to formally complain about the issuance of the above-referenced Parking Charge Notice (PCN) to my vehicle, [Vehicle Registration Number], on [Date of Alleged Contravention]. This complaint is not an appeal but a demand for the immediate cancellation of the PCN and the deletion of all personal data relating to this incident.
Upon review, I have identified several significant breaches of legal and regulatory frameworks which include but are not limited to:
Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (PoFA)
The PCN was issued without any evidence of my vehicle having been parked on any private land. This lack of evidence violates the requirements under PoFA for the lawful issuance of parking charges.
Surveillance Camera Code of Practice
Your ANPR camera, positioned to record vehicles on a public highway, contravenes the Surveillance Camera Code of Practice which mandates that surveillance be proportionate and targeted for its intended purpose.
The Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984
Enforcement actions on public roads are reserved for authorised bodies such as local councils or the police. Your actions indicate a misuse of enforcement powers you do not possess.
Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008
The issuance of a PCN without justifiable evidence constitutes an unfair and misleading commercial practice.
Data Protection Act 2018 and GDPR
The indiscriminate recording of vehicles on a public highway without a legitimate purpose breaches data protection laws. Specifically, this data processing lacks a lawful basis under GDPR, infringing upon the rights of the data subject.
In light of these breaches, I demand:
1. Immediate cancellation of the PCN No. [PCN Number].
2. Deletion of all personal data relating to this incident from your records in compliance with GDPR and the Data Protection Act 2018.
Should you fail to comply with these demands within 14 days, I will not hesitate to pursue all available legal avenues to address these breaches. Moreover, should you proceed with any claim, please be advised that I will file a counterclaim under Part 20 of the Civil Procedure Rules for damages no less than £300 for the GDPR breach and any additional costs incurred.
Please confirm receipt of this letter and your compliance with my demands within the specified timeframe. Failure to do so will result in immediate escalation, including reporting your practices to the relevant regulatory bodies such as the Information Commissioner’s Office (ICO), the DVLA and Trading Standards.
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And these are the photos they have in their website as proof
https://imgur.com/a/K7JVsmZ
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Here is the full letter.
[attachment deleted by admin]
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Show us the whole NtK with only your personal details, VRM and PCN number redacted. We need to see it all, especially all dates and times.
What you have shown us already indicates a failure of PoFA in that there is no mention of the "period of parking" that led to the breach of contract. Additionally, there is no evidence of the vehicle either parked nor entering and/or leaving the private land.
ANPR images of the vehicle on the public highway is not evidence of it entering and leaving private land. If an ANPR camera operated by a private parking company is pointed at a public highway and records all vehicles, potentially issuing a PCN without evidence of a vehicle entering private land, several laws and regulations are breached. These include:
1. Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (PoFA)
Under the PoFA, private parking companies must have clear evidence that a vehicle was parked on private land.
2. Surveillance Camera Code of Practice
Issued under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, this code sets out guidelines for the use of surveillance cameras in public spaces. Private companies using ANPR cameras must comply with these guidelines, which include ensuring that surveillance is used proportionately, transparently, and only for intended purposes. Misuse is a breach of this code.
3. The Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984
Section 33 of this Act stipulates that enforcement on public roads must be carried out by authorised bodies, such as local councils or the police. Private companies do not have the authority to enforce parking regulations or issue fines on public highways.
4. Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008
Issuing a PCN without evidence of a vehicle being on private land is considered misleading and unfair. This Act prohibits unfair commercial practices, including false claims or deceptive practices.
5. Data Protection Act 2018
Besides GDPR, the UK’s Data Protection Act 2018 sets out requirements for the lawful processing of personal data. Recording data indiscriminately from public highways without a legitimate purpose or adequate safeguards breaches these regulations.
6. Human Rights Act 1998
Although more commonly cited in broader privacy cases, unauthorised surveillance and unwarranted collection of personal data may raise issues under the Human Rights Act, particularly Article 8, which protects the right to private and family life.
7. Private Security Industry Act 2001
If the ANPR system is being used in a way that might be considered surveillance of public areas, this could fall under the remit of this Act, which requires certain standards and licensing for security activities.
Key Points for Legal and Regulatory Compliance:
Evidence Collection: Any PCN issued must be based on evidence showing the vehicle was on private property.
Proper Use of Surveillance: Surveillance must be targeted, proportionate, and justified.
Authority to Enforce: Private companies cannot enforce parking on public highways.
Fair Trading Practices: Issuing unjustified PCNs can be considered unfair trading practices.
Data Protection Compliance: ANPR systems must comply with data protection laws, ensuring the legitimate processing of personal data.
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I have attached the letter they sent me. The back side it’s just info on how to pay or appeal. (Updated on post bellow)
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Are you sure the parking charge was issued for parking where indicated (is that your red car), and not for entering and leaving the car park without paying for the few seconds you were there? Their "claiming that the zone that I parked was a no parking zone" suggests it is, but need to be clear.
You need to establish definitively that the spot you parked in is part of the public highway. Most council highways authorities (county, London Borough or unitary authority) have maps showing exactly what is and isn't the public highway, and an email to them would confirm if there is doubt. If it's definitely the public highway, they they can go swivel, and you could even bring a claim against them for DPA breach, as they had no right to obtain the keeper's details. A complaint to the DVLA would be in order. Or you could save the DPA claim as a counterclaim if they attempt to pursue this to court.
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Please read this READ THIS FIRST - Private Parking Charges Forum guid (https://www.ftla.uk/private-parking-tickets/read-this-first-private-parking-charges-forum-guide/)e and show us both sides of the NtK you received. It would appear that you outed yourself to be the driver which has probably somewhat handicapped you in your next options.
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Hi all,
I got a PCN for apparently "parking in a manner where I was liable for a parking charge". I have appealed the parking charge which was of course rejected claiming that the zone that I parked was a no parking zone however, I believe I have parked on a public road. I enterned the car park to perform a U-turn (as it was safer there) and then went out again and waited as I was picking up someone, this whole process lasted 8 minutes. I have attached their rejection letter as well as the photos they send me as well as a screenshot of the location that they are claiming I parked (please note that I believe I was parked after the fence). Should I just pay it and forget about it? It just feels very unfair and predatory.
[attachment deleted by admin]