Free Traffic Legal Advice
Live cases legal advice => Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) => Topic started by: Peter222 on May 29, 2024, 09:51:28 pm
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Thanks entirely to the expertise, knowledge and generosity of Hippocrates, my appeal was allowed. He knew the law better than the adjudicator, who had to look it up!
That's why I wasn't mentioned! :) :'(
See you in Kos mate. There is a spare room going in June. Serious.
As for the DFT authorisation: I am playing the right notes but not necessarily in the right order! He got the point. Mucking about with 959B signs and/or 958 signs and their meaning and positions. Quite ridiculous. This authorisation is a complete travesty of what TSM Chapter Three states.
The Appellant then sent another email to the same effect on 25 October 2024. This was clearly not
within the prescribed time period to which the Enforcement Authority were entitled and thus of itself
could not be relied upon
Really? 25, 28, 29. In any event, the requirement to attend was combined with the submissions which were filed on 19th October from Kos.
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Thanks entirely to the expertise, knowledge and generosity of Hippocrates, my appeal was allowed. He knew the law better than the adjudicator, who had to look it up!
Lovely to meet you too.
Thanks again Hippocrates, my hero of the moment!
Peter
Decision attached
[attachment deleted by admin]
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Job done. 2240418124. Good to meet you, sir. 8)
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Please be advised that it would be up to the adjudicator to decide whether they would want the council to attend the hearing.
:-X
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2240270679: in complete agreement for future reference.
Reviewed and refused unfortunately. However, appeal for this case just registered.
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To: Hammersmith and Fulham Council
Re PCN:
I make these formal representations against the Enforcement Notice on the following grounds
1. I am in possession of the special DFT authorisation for this offside bus lane and it is clear that you have departed from the agreed plan of the layout of the signage, in particular the 958 sign.
2. Notwithstanding that there is the said authorisation, I refer you to this extract from a High Court decision:
R(Oxfordshire County Council) v The Bus Lane Adjudicator [2010]EWHC 894 (Admin) Mr Justice Beatson confirmed at para. 65:
Para 65. The Defendant's submission that the fact that signs are prescribed or authorised does not mean they are sufficient for securing adequate information as to the effect of an order is made available to road users is clearly correct. If the signs do not in fact provide adequate information no offence is committed;
I argue, therefore, that your departure from the DFT authorised plan by placing the 958 sign AFTER the taper line substantially exacerbates your problem concerning enforcement. In any event, most of the signage in place directly contravenes the Traffic Signs Manual Chapter Three in terms of their very meaning. Furthermore, there is a plethora of signage and, indeed, placed in positions which again contradict the said TSM. I rely upon case no: 2240270679 in this regard. I also say that you have added extra signage which is non-compliant with TSRGD 2016.
3. I put you to strict proof that the camera at the said location has the correct VCA approval.
4. The Enforcement Notice limits to one ground of representations.
5. Service and delivery are two entirely different concepts and “delivery” is not mentioned in the Act. The Enforcement Notice substantially departs from the statutory scheme in terms of 4 and 5.
In light of the above, I request that you cancel the PCN and EN forthwith.
Signed
*******************
Yesterday's outcome:
https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/hammersmith-and-fulham-being-in-a-bus-lane-shepherds-bush-rd-southbound-offside-/msg34058/#msg34058
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2240270679: in complete agreement for future reference.
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Senior members will confirm if this is still a valid argument in May 2024 or not.
While councils have made some attempts to get their house in order, we still regularly use these same grounds to this day. We haven't lost a single London council bus lane PCN case since we won your case against Ealing in October 2022; how time flies!
@Peter222 please follow the guidance from Hippocrates, he's a bus lane veteran.
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Please use this draft and put in your own words and then repost your version with the correct PCN details etc:
https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/hammersmith-and-fulham-being-in-a-bus-lane-shepherds-bush-rd-southbound-offside-/msg21134/#msg21134
No need to apologise being new! We all started in this crazy game from scratch!
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Please. Listen to my advice and confirm your e mail address to me via a PM. Old cases are based on the arguments presented. My information is comprehensive.
Thanks... I emailed you yesterday, at 22.14. maybe it went to spam? Nevertheless I'll try again
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Have the councils sorted the Secretary of State's certificates for their cameras yet or still not ? If not yet, the evidence is inadmissible at tribunals stage, all Greater London's bus lane PCN for the past years have been issued without any admissible evidence : https://lbbspending.blogspot.com/2022/12/how-to-get-bus-lane-pcn-in-london.html (https://lbbspending.blogspot.com/2022/12/how-to-get-bus-lane-pcn-in-london.html)
Senior members will confirm if this is still a valid argument in May 2024 or not.
The vast majority of them have but they still need to attend and be cross-examined. And one council, at least, uses one camera which does not have a VCA certificate. This bus lane though has other issues re the signage.
How would I find this out? An email asking for a copy of the VCA certificate for camera number HBF302?
Please. If you want my assistance, accept my advice and all this can be incorporated into a challenge.
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Please. Listen to my advice and confirm your e mail address to me via a PM. Old cases are based on the arguments presented. My information is comprehensive.
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I found these, but you need to look up the individual cases to see which concern this particular bit of 'bus lane.
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London Tribunals Environment & Traffic Adjudicators
Back
ETA Register of Appeals
Register kept under Regulation 20 of the Road Traffic (Parking Adjudicators) (London) Regulations 1993, as amended and Regulation 17 of the Civil Enforcement of Road Traffic Contraventions (Representations and Appeals) (England) Regulations 2022.
This screen shows short details of the appeals decided. To see the full entry for an appeal you should click on the case reference.
Use the Previous and Next options to browse backwards and forwards through the register.
To search the register - for example to find cases for a specific date - you should click on the Search link.
Browse
Search result
Search again
31 Case(s) found
Case Reference Date Registered Surname Forename Company Enforcing Authority PCN PCN Location
Latest Outcome Date Outcome
2130601772 03/12/2013 Terry David Ivor - London Borough of Hammersmith and Fulham HZ41419299 Shepherds Bush Road 09/01/2014 Appeal allowed
2130595476 29/11/2013 Asghari Amine - London Borough of Hammersmith and Fulham HZ40901472 Shepherds Bush Road 30/01/2014 Appeal allowed
2140099743 27/02/2014 Avgousti Andrianna - London Borough of Hammersmith and Fulham HZ41204226 Shepherds Bush Road 07/04/2014 Appeal allowed
2140006797 06/01/2014 - - Fresh Direct (UK) Ltd London Borough of Hammersmith and Fulham HZ4123646A Shepherds Bush Road 30/04/2014 Appeal allowed
2140026692 22/01/2014 - - Fresh Direct UK Ltd London Borough of Hammersmith and Fulham HZ41146607 Shepherds Bush Road 13/06/2014 Appeal allowed
2140291864 24/06/2014 Goldsmith Anthony - London Borough of Hammersmith and Fulham HZ42203080 Shepherds Bush Road 25/07/2014 Appeal allowed
2140406150 08/09/2014 Arora Jasvinder Singh - London Borough of Hammersmith and Fulham HZ43574554 Shepherds Bush Road 07/10/2014 Appeal allowed
2140451847 08/10/2014 Pattison Nicholas - London Borough of Hammersmith and Fulham HZ42617491 Shepherds Bush Road 10/11/2014 Appeal allowed
2140464022 16/10/2014 - - K E Kent London Borough of Hammersmith and Fulham HZ44006557 Shepherds Bush Road 17/11/2014 Appeal allowed
2150134465 16/04/2015 - - Ocado Ltd London Borough of Hammersmith and Fulham HZ4423895A Shepherds Bush Road 20/05/2015 Appeal allowed
2150180473 20/05/2015 Balaj Muhabi - London Borough of Hammersmith and Fulham HZ4494695A Shepherds Bush Road 24/06/2015 Appeal allowed
2150230028 29/06/2015 - - Carey England Ltd London Borough of Hammersmith and Fulham HZ44559545 Shepherds Bush Road 05/08/2015 Appeal allowed
215026933A 31/07/2015 MILLS CLARE KAREN - London Borough of Hammersmith and Fulham HZ4603494A Shepherds Bush Road 28/08/2015 Appeal allowed
2150222970 29/06/2015 - - Fresh Direct London Borough of Hammersmith and Fulham HZ45083666 Shepherds Bush Road 10/10/2015 Appeal allowed
2150350675 24/09/2015 Harti Ahmed - London Borough of Hammersmith and Fulham HZ4531140A Shepherds Bush Road 22/10/2015 Appeal allowed
row(s) 1 - 15 of 31
Case Reference Date Registered Surname Forename Company Enforcing Authority PCN PCN Location
Latest Outcome Date Outcome
2150386082 20/10/2015 Carnegie Hanna - London Borough of Hammersmith and Fulham HZ46204890 Shepherds Bush Road 28/11/2015 Appeal allowed
215038508A 20/10/2015 Dhar Anil - London Borough of Hammersmith and Fulham HZ45266123 Shepherds Bush Road 01/12/2015 Appeal allowed
2150425311 16/11/2015 Wimalaratna Hemalal - London Borough of Hammersmith and Fulham HZ46155139 Shepherds Bush Road 18/01/2016 Appeal allowed
2180390395 04/10/2018 Ballard Roger - London Borough of Hammersmith and Fulham HZ23839204 Shepherds Bush Road 16/11/2018 Appeal allowed
2180405164 15/10/2018 Verney Stuart - London Borough of Hammersmith and Fulham HZ24186773 Shepherds Bush Road 17/11/2018 Appeal allowed
2180439734 10/12/2018 Leaton Daniel - London Borough of Hammersmith and Fulham HZ21825264 Shepherds Bush Road 09/01/2019 Appeal allowed
219001153A 09/01/2019 Santoro Francesco - London Borough of Hammersmith and Fulham HZ24296738 Shepherds Bush Road 13/02/2019 Appeal allowed
2190013615 10/01/2019 Mozil Sami - London Borough of Hammersmith and Fulham HZ24641610 Shepherds Bush Road 21/02/2019 Appeal allowed
2190195443 15/05/2019 Mirao Lino Elisio Marques - London Borough of Hammersmith and Fulham HZ25011833 Shepherds Bush Road 14/06/2019 Appeal allowed
2190264171 01/07/2019 Barton Lewis - London Borough of Hammersmith and Fulham HZ24914564 Shepherds Bush Road 02/08/2019 Appeal allowed
2190253062 25/06/2019 Rahman Ehsanur - London Borough of Hammersmith and Fulham HZ25356551 Shepherds Bush Road 03/08/2019 Appeal allowed
2190276909 09/07/2019 Avis Linda - London Borough of Hammersmith and Fulham HZ24958774 Shepherds Bush Road 07/08/2019 Appeal allowed
2190347439 21/08/2019 Morsy Mostafa - London Borough of Hammersmith and Fulham HZ25283389 Shepherds Bush Road 25/09/2019 Appeal allowed
2200031184 22/01/2020 - - 3663 Transport Limited London Borough of Hammersmith and Fulham HZ17481263 Shepherds Bush Road 16/04/2020 Appeal allowed
2210307463 04/06/2021 Ishaq Raja - London Borough of Hammersmith and Fulham HZ19766195 Shepherds Bush Road 15/07/2021 Appeal allowed
2220358686 17/05/2022 Bryant-Von-Haidenthaler Elisabeth - London Borough of Hammersmith and Fulham HZ65895267 Shepherds Bush Road 18/06/2022 Appeal allowed
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Thanks for this pointer, but I couldn't find the way forward. The site kept returning me to the home page. I couldn't find a "search" button.
Try
https://www.londontribunals.gov.uk/about/registers-appeals
Hit 'Access the statutory registers' button
scroll; down to (ETA)
hit the 'search' button.
Well that worked, thanks, but on entering a 3-year period to today, the location as shown on my PCN ("buslane shepherds bush road southbound offside", and the borough, the search returned only one result, a successful appeal based on the bus lane sign not appearing in the CCTV photo. My PCN has the sign, although it does seem to be slightly after the start of the bus lane markings.
I wonder if it's worth riding back to the location with a tape measure? It's not too far.
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Thanks for this pointer, but I couldn't find the way forward. The site kept returning me to the home page. I couldn't find a "search" button.
Try
https://www.londontribunals.gov.uk/about/registers-appeals
Hit 'Access the statutory registers' button
scroll; down to (ETA)
hit the 'search' button.
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Have the councils sorted the Secretary of State's certificates for their cameras yet or still not ? If not yet, the evidence is inadmissible at tribunals stage, all Greater London's bus lane PCN for the past years have been issued without any admissible evidence : https://lbbspending.blogspot.com/2022/12/how-to-get-bus-lane-pcn-in-london.html (https://lbbspending.blogspot.com/2022/12/how-to-get-bus-lane-pcn-in-london.html)
Senior members will confirm if this is still a valid argument in May 2024 or not.
The vast majority of them have but they still need to attend and be cross-examined. And one council, at least, uses one camera which does not have a VCA certificate. This bus lane though has other issues re the signage.
How would I find this out? An email asking for a copy of the VCA certificate for camera number HBF302?
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You can search the London Tribunals Statutory Register of cases to see the cases at this location. Try the last couple of years.
http://www.londontribunals.gov.uk/
Thanks for this pointer, but I couldn't find the way forward. The site kept returning me to the home page. I couldn't find a "search" button.
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https://www.standard.co.uk/news/transport/the-shepherds-bush-bus-lane-which-raked-in-ps1m-with-confusing-signs-8498962.html
PM sent.
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Have the councils sorted the Secretary of State's certificates for their cameras yet or still not ? If not yet, the evidence is inadmissible at tribunals stage, all Greater London's bus lane PCN for the past years have been issued without any admissible evidence : https://lbbspending.blogspot.com/2022/12/how-to-get-bus-lane-pcn-in-london.html (https://lbbspending.blogspot.com/2022/12/how-to-get-bus-lane-pcn-in-london.html)
Senior members will confirm if this is still a valid argument in May 2024 or not.
The vast majority of them have but they still need to attend and be cross-examined. And one council, at least, uses one camera which does not have a VCA certificate. This bus lane though has other issues re the signage.
-
Have the councils sorted the Secretary of State's certificates for their cameras yet or still not ? If not yet, the evidence is inadmissible at tribunals stage, all Greater London's bus lane PCN for the past years have been issued without any admissible evidence : https://lbbspending.blogspot.com/2022/12/how-to-get-bus-lane-pcn-in-london.html (https://lbbspending.blogspot.com/2022/12/how-to-get-bus-lane-pcn-in-london.html)
Senior members will confirm if this is still a valid argument in May 2024 or not.
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Do not pay this at all. I will PM you tomorrow. They have not adhered to the authorised plan of the Dept. for Transport for starters!
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It's not a specific money-making scheme against motorcyclists, although it undoubtedly makes a lot of money from all types of vehicles, and is pretty notorious on this forum.
As I understand it, all the TfL-controlled bus lanes allow motorbikes, but councils can decide for themselves, and you've really no way of telling which bus lane is under which authority, so the sign is crucial.
You can search the London Tribunals Statutory Register of cases to see the cases at this location. Try the last couple of years.
http://www.londontribunals.gov.uk/
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Hi all,
On 15th April I was snapped in a bus lane in Hammersmith (London). I admit to this, of course, it was me on the bike.
On 2nd May I had to go to hospital, and was the next day informed from home that a PCN had arrived for me. As I felt unable to deal with it properly at the time I sent an email to LBHF (London Borough of Hammersmith and Fulham) requesting an extension of the grace period. I got an automatic reply. I phoned the number on the PCN and was reassured that as my email had been received, the PCN was automatically on hold until a reply was sent. Until now, there has been no reply so I assume it's still on hold.
Nearly all of London's bus lanes now permit motorcycles as well as buses and taxis and I've been sort of taking this for granted. Suddenly here is a confusing sign, showing a bus lane in the middle of the road, that I was trying to decipher and I missed the fact that there was no motorcycle icon shown. In no time I was past the sign and in the bus lane, which of course I assumed was open to motorcycles.
Apart from the fact that I can think of no convincing reason to exclude motorcycles from bus lanes, which suggests that this exclusion may simply be a money-making scheme which works by catching bikers out, I am fully resigned to paying the fine.
Unless there is a reason to challenge? Can anyone suggest whether I have any grounds?
Many thanks
Peter
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