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Live cases legal advice => Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) => Topic started by: Chewdog on May 27, 2024, 12:12:01 am

Title: Re: North Yorkshire Council - 35 - Parked in a disc parking place without a valid disc - Valley Drive
Post by: cp8759 on June 06, 2024, 06:43:53 pm
That is good news.

For future reference, here is the North Yorkshire County Council (Harrogate, Knaresborough, Pannal and Burnbridge) (Parking and Waiting) (No.16) Order 2013 (https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Bx0Z-pj-mDaW4UxzRXtuqRcVIxnwqqYN/view).
Title: Re: North Yorkshire Council - 35 - Parked in a disc parking place without a valid disc - Valley Drive
Post by: Chewdog on June 04, 2024, 11:26:45 pm
(https://i.imgur.com/QkUoIzr.jpg)






Good news and bad news. The good news is that North Yorkshire Council has some humanity and cancelled my family member's PCN. The bad news is that I recently got a PCN stopping in a bus lane by a mobile ANPR/CCTV car. I have already appealed this and may have to create a new post as it's Sheffield Council again. Thank you so much for all the support  :)
Title: Re: North Yorkshire Council - 35 - Parked in a disc parking place without a valid disc - Valley Drive
Post by: cp8759 on May 27, 2024, 10:59:43 pm
@Chewdog here you go:

Dear North Yorkshire County Council,

I challenge liability on the grounds that the alleged contravention did not occur. There are no bay markings on Valley Drive, so there is nothing to put a motorist on notice that this is anything other than an unrestricted street. Obviously if I had known of the requirement to obtain a free disc I would have done so, given that parking is free.

I trust you will now arrange for the penalty charge to be cancelled, and for the bay markings to be reinstated. I would also suggest enforcement should be suspended until the reinstatement works are complete.

Yours faithfully,


Send this online and keep a screenshot of the confirmation page, in the meantime I have requested the traffic order. Don't expect the council to cancel, but there is a perfectly viable case to be taken to the tribunal.
Title: Re: North Yorkshire Council - 35 - Parked in a disc parking place without a valid disc - Valley Drive
Post by: Incandescent on May 27, 2024, 09:21:26 am
I agree the markings look almost non-existent, but the sign for the bay is just behind your car. No bay markings means you're not obliged to seek out the sign for the bay, of course. No harm in submitting an informal challenge based on no bay markings, but don't expect them to roll over and cancel. You have the right in law to take the matter all the way to adjudication, but the full PCN is in play at the adjudicators.
Title: Re: North Yorkshire Council - 35 - Parked in a disc parking place without a valid disc - Valley Drive
Post by: Chewdog on May 27, 2024, 01:35:43 am
Main post updated with front and rear council pics. These seem to be the only ones that show the condition of the bay markings.
Title: Re: North Yorkshire Council - 35 - Parked in a disc parking place without a valid disc - Valley Drive
Post by: Incandescent on May 27, 2024, 01:10:51 am
The bay markings look pretty worn in the 2022 GSV view, so if you can post up the council's photos a better judgment on their visibility can be given. If they're still visible, I doubt this alone could win at adjudication. Basically, if you park in a marked bay you are under an obligation to seek out the sign giving the parking rules for that bay. The signs look quite clear in the GSV view.

The PCN looks OK.
Title: North Yorkshire Council - 35 - Parked in a disc parking place without a valid disc - Valley Drive
Post by: Chewdog on May 27, 2024, 12:12:01 am
Council: North Yorkshire Council
PCN: 35 Parked in a disc parking place without clearly displaying a valid disc
Location: Valley Drive (south side near roundabout), Harrogate

Hi everyone, a family member accidentally parked in a disc zone permit area without having the correct permit on display. From what she can remember she didn't see the parking bay lines and she wasn't aware of Harrogate's free disc parking scheme (https://visitharrogate.co.uk/business-directory/category/car-park (https://visitharrogate.co.uk/business-directory/category/car-park)). Google Maps' latest street view is only from 2022 where parking lines can be seen, but the PCN's images show very faded/non-existent parking lines on one of the pictures. Is there room to appeal this?




(https://i.imgur.com/XgOka63.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/9H1O092.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/13ls0x4.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/N7Qi1ux.jpg)



Google Street View: https://maps.app.goo.gl/fpERcEMgpmCCCmmW8 (https://maps.app.goo.gl/fpERcEMgpmCCCmmW8)