Free Traffic Legal Advice

Live cases legal advice => Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) => Topic started by: NEILWU on July 14, 2023, 07:28:58 pm

Title: Re: Royal Borough of Greenwich - Notice to Owner
Post by: cp8759 on September 14, 2023, 10:12:48 am
DNC'ed (https://drive.google.com/uc?id=1nWFDly45WEddSz_yJmH6493Uq5fDtRVP).
Title: Re: Royal Borough of Greenwich - Notice to Owner
Post by: cp8759 on August 05, 2023, 12:22:44 pm
Quote from: NEILWU on August 02, 2023, 10:23:07 pm
Quote from: cp8759 on August 02, 2023, 07:12:03 pm
Would you like me to represent you at the tribunal?

I think there are grounds for doing so, especially given the discount is not on offer.

Yes please. my first time. what should I do?
I've sent you a PM.
Title: Re: Royal Borough of Greenwich - Notice to Owner
Post by: guest179 on August 03, 2023, 08:26:14 am

There are procedural points which can be raised e.g. not giving you the mandatory info to be included in a NOR(the adjudicator's power to accept late submissions)and what appears to be not addressing your reps etc.

But what you must do is to post exactly what you submitted as reps. The NOR doesn't refer to discretion which was the only point made in cp's draft. So what did you submit?
Title: Re: Royal Borough of Greenwich - Notice to Owner
Post by: NEILWU on August 02, 2023, 10:23:07 pm
Quote from: cp8759 on August 02, 2023, 07:12:03 pm
Would you like me to represent you at the tribunal?

I think there are grounds for doing so, especially given the discount is not on offer.

Yes please. my first time. what should I do?
Title: Re: Royal Borough of Greenwich - Notice to Owner
Post by: guest179 on August 02, 2023, 09:56:47 pm
Let's hope you succeed with the council, IMO you would not succeed with the adjudicator.

You parked where not permitted. There is no statutory defence of carrying a passenger who has undergone surgery. Assisted alighting does not include taking a person on a 30-minute(as a minimum) shopping trip. There are no shops in the immediate vicinity of your car; GSV shows more off-street parking places within easy distance (closer to shops than you parked) than you can shake a stick at M&S; Lidl; P&D.

Establishing your passenger's incapacity alone is not sufficient IMO when it seems clear that you could and should have parked where authorised, even if off-street.

Your reps will need to consider how you would argue your needto park where you did.

(Edit - this has crossed with your NOR which I'll read before commenting further).

Where are the council's photos?
Title: Re: Royal Borough of Greenwich - Notice to Owner
Post by: cp8759 on August 02, 2023, 07:12:03 pm
Would you like me to represent you at the tribunal?

I think there are grounds for doing so, especially given the discount is not on offer.
Title: Re: Royal Borough of Greenwich - Notice to Owner
Post by: Incandescent on August 01, 2023, 10:45:11 pm
They haven't reoffered the discount, so it is a complete no-brainer to take them to London Tribunals as the penalty remains the same and there are no additional costs. I suggest you therefore register an appeal with London Tribunals.  At this stage you just say "I rely on my representations to the Notice to Owner".  There are people on here who may be willing to act for you at the adjudication. Attendance at the London Tribunals offices is not necessary, you can have a telephone hearing.  Do not, however, ask for a papers-based adjudication without a hearing, as these tend to be lost because you cannot put any additional points across, or answer questions.
Title: Re: Royal Borough of Greenwich - Notice to Owner
Post by: NEILWU on August 01, 2023, 08:51:55 pm
Quote from: cp8759 on July 31, 2023, 11:43:17 pm
Quote from: NEILWU on July 30, 2023, 09:06:22 pm
Quote from: cp8759 on July 29, 2023, 06:49:59 pm
You might be able to go onto the website and submit an additional representation with the other photos.

Do you mean I can log in again to upload another 3 photos?
I think so, why don't you try?

I received the rejection letter of NTO as attached. please advise what i can do next.

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: Royal Borough of Greenwich - Notice to Owner
Post by: cp8759 on July 31, 2023, 11:43:17 pm
Quote from: NEILWU on July 30, 2023, 09:06:22 pm
Quote from: cp8759 on July 29, 2023, 06:49:59 pm
You might be able to go onto the website and submit an additional representation with the other photos.

Do you mean I can log in again to upload another 3 photos?
I think so, why don't you try?
Title: Re: Royal Borough of Greenwich - Notice to Owner
Post by: NEILWU on July 30, 2023, 09:06:22 pm
Quote from: cp8759 on July 29, 2023, 06:49:59 pm
You might be able to go onto the website and submit an additional representation with the other photos.

Do you mean I can log in again to upload another 3 photos?
Title: Re: Royal Borough of Greenwich - Notice to Owner
Post by: cp8759 on July 29, 2023, 06:49:59 pm
You might be able to go onto the website and submit an additional representation with the other photos.
Title: Re: Royal Borough of Greenwich - Notice to Owner
Post by: NEILWU on July 28, 2023, 05:37:33 pm
Thank you Ivan.

system only allow me to upload 3 photos, I chose Surgical report, translation and scar cut.
Hope it is fine.
Title: Re: Royal Borough of Greenwich - Notice to Owner
Post by: cp8759 on July 28, 2023, 09:57:44 am
Draft representation:

Dear London Borough of Greenwich,

I am writing to challenge the PCN that was issued on 14-May at Eltham. I usually park in a parking bay, on this occasion I parked as I did because I was helping my 71 year old mother, she can't walk very far and she needs me to park as close as possible to the shopping area. She has come to the UK to visit me for 6 months and recently had knee replacement surgery in China, she is in some pain while she recovers and she would find it very difficult if she had to walk a longer distance.

As I understand it she would not be eligible for a blue badge due to not being a UK resident, she will be applying for a disabled badge when she returns home but the Chinese authorities require applications to be made in person.

I attach a photo of her passport, the letter from the hospital confirming her knee replacement surgery (which I have translated) and a photo showing her surgical scar.

In light of the above I would kindly ask you to exercise discretion not to enforce the PCN.

Yours faithfully,
Title: Re: Royal Borough of Greenwich - Notice to Owner
Post by: NEILWU on July 26, 2023, 08:57:38 pm
Quote from: cp8759 on July 26, 2023, 10:38:37 am
Sure, or send me a PM on here.

Hi Ivan,

I sent you all the relevant documents and photos by email.

Please check and advise.

thank you
Neil
Title: Re: Royal Borough of Greenwich - Notice to Owner
Post by: cp8759 on July 26, 2023, 10:38:37 am
Sure, or send me a PM on here.
Title: Re: Royal Borough of Greenwich - Notice to Owner
Post by: NEILWU on July 25, 2023, 11:20:39 pm
Quote from: cp8759 on July 25, 2023, 09:35:59 pm
Put the translation on here with a draft representation and I will tidy it up for you.

I just finished the translation and it is about 3 pages. Can I send you email instead ?
Title: Re: Royal Borough of Greenwich - Notice to Owner
Post by: cp8759 on July 25, 2023, 09:35:59 pm
Put the translation on here with a draft representation and I will tidy it up for you.
Title: Re: Royal Borough of Greenwich - Notice to Owner
Post by: NEILWU on July 25, 2023, 09:24:56 pm
Quote from: cp8759 on July 24, 2023, 10:39:58 pm
Use Google Translate for any words that you don't know the exact translation for.

Okay, I will do the google translator.

what will be the next step once complete translator?
Title: Re: Royal Borough of Greenwich - Notice to Owner
Post by: cp8759 on July 24, 2023, 10:39:58 pm
Use Google Translate for any words that you don't know the exact translation for.
Title: Re: Royal Borough of Greenwich - Notice to Owner
Post by: NEILWU on July 24, 2023, 08:29:08 pm
Quote from: cp8759 on July 22, 2023, 01:16:59 am
Your deadline to make representations is 10 August, so you have a bit of time.

finally I got the hospital letters with full details of surgery(date/time/doctor name/operation details etc), however, it was not written in English. do I need to translate in English myself, but with all professional words, it is hard to do it.

Please advise.

Thank you
Title: Re: Royal Borough of Greenwich - Notice to Owner
Post by: cp8759 on July 22, 2023, 01:16:59 am
Your deadline to make representations is 10 August, so you have a bit of time.
Title: Re: Royal Borough of Greenwich - Notice to Owner
Post by: NEILWU on July 21, 2023, 10:48:31 pm
Quote from: cp8759 on July 20, 2023, 09:24:23 pm
I don't understand why someone back home can't take a photo of the letter and send it via whatsapp, email, whatever?

Because no one at home of my home country. that is why...

Anyway, I am calling hospital and see if they can provide the letter by emails.
Title: Re: Royal Borough of Greenwich - Notice to Owner
Post by: cp8759 on July 20, 2023, 09:24:23 pm
I don't understand why someone back home can't take a photo of the letter and send it via whatsapp, email, whatever?
Title: Re: Royal Borough of Greenwich - Notice to Owner
Post by: NEILWU on July 20, 2023, 09:12:01 pm
Quote from: cp8759 on July 17, 2023, 10:55:33 pm
Quote from: NEILWU on July 17, 2023, 08:53:57 pm
I can provide photos of the scar of knee surgery and also the passport of my mom to show the age.
if needed, I can provide hospital letter but it will take time to provide and surgery was not taken in UK.
All of that would help and would be compelling evidence.

How much time do you need to get the hospital letter? Even if the letter is abroad, can't somebody just take a photo and send it to you on whatsapp or by email? You don't need the original.

My mom is with me now nobody at home and will be back in the end of September but I only have less than 20 days to make the challenge
Title: Re: Royal Borough of Greenwich - Notice to Owner
Post by: Incandescent on July 20, 2023, 01:01:54 am
You do need a lot of collateral to support staying on double-yellows for 30 minutes to claim the board/alight exemption, so do try to get supporting documents as cp8759 suggests.
Title: Re: Royal Borough of Greenwich - Notice to Owner
Post by: NEILWU on July 20, 2023, 12:17:43 am
Quote from: cp8759 on July 17, 2023, 10:55:33 pm
Quote from: NEILWU on July 17, 2023, 08:53:57 pm
I can provide photos of the scar of knee surgery and also the passport of my mom to show the age.
if needed, I can provide hospital letter but it will take time to provide and surgery was not taken in UK.
All of that would help and would be compelling evidence.

How much time do you need to get the hospital letter? Even if the letter is abroad, can't somebody just take a photo and send it to you on whatsapp or by email? You don't need the original.

I will try to get it, at the same time, can you help to prepare the reps?

thank you
Title: Re: Royal Borough of Greenwich - Notice to Owner
Post by: cp8759 on July 17, 2023, 10:55:33 pm
Quote from: NEILWU on July 17, 2023, 08:53:57 pm
I can provide photos of the scar of knee surgery and also the passport of my mom to show the age.
if needed, I can provide hospital letter but it will take time to provide and surgery was not taken in UK.
All of that would help and would be compelling evidence.

How much time do you need to get the hospital letter? Even if the letter is abroad, can't somebody just take a photo and send it to you on whatsapp or by email? You don't need the original.
Title: Re: Royal Borough of Greenwich - Notice to Owner
Post by: NEILWU on July 17, 2023, 08:54:52 pm
Quote from: Fraser Mitchell on July 15, 2023, 09:47:26 pm
The signs you show on photos are irrelevant, because you parked on double-yellow lines that need no sign as they apply 24x7.
 
So how long were you parked on these DYLs ? If you were merely dropping-off your mother to the shops, you are entitled to the board/alight exemption. Other than this all you can do is submit reps based on your narrative, that essentially ask for an indulgence.  I have to say, I don't think you'll find the council is receptive, but worth a try anyway.

Hello,

It is about 30 mins. do you think I worth to try?
Title: Re: Royal Borough of Greenwich - Notice to Owner
Post by: NEILWU on July 17, 2023, 08:53:57 pm
Quote from: cp8759 on July 16, 2023, 09:51:03 pm
Please give us a summary of her mobility issues, and of what supporting evidence you can send to the council.

Hello,

I can provide photos of the scar of knee surgery and also the passport of my mom to show the age.
if needed, I can provide hospital letter but it will take time to provide and surgery was not taken in UK.

Would it help?

Thank you
Neil
Title: Re: Royal Borough of Greenwich - Notice to Owner
Post by: cp8759 on July 16, 2023, 09:51:03 pm
Please give us a summary of her mobility issues, and of what supporting evidence you can send to the council.
Title: Re: Royal Borough of Greenwich - Notice to Owner
Post by: Incandescent on July 15, 2023, 09:47:26 pm
The signs you show on photos are irrelevant, because you parked on double-yellow lines that need no sign as they apply 24x7.
 
So how long were you parked on these DYLs ? If you were merely dropping-off your mother to the shops, you are entitled to the board/alight exemption. Other than this all you can do is submit reps based on your narrative, that essentially ask for an indulgence.  I have to say, I don't think you'll find the council is receptive, but worth a try anyway.
Title: Re: Royal Borough of Greenwich - Notice to Owner
Post by: NEILWU on July 15, 2023, 05:42:11 pm
Here are attached photos

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: Royal Borough of Greenwich - Notice to Owner
Post by: John U.K. on July 14, 2023, 07:48:00 pm
Please post a GSV (Google Street View) link to the location
Title: Royal Borough of Greenwich - Notice to Owner
Post by: NEILWU on July 14, 2023, 07:28:58 pm
Hi Ivan,

As agreed, I post my case here.

I am writing to challenge the PCN that was issued on 14-May at Eltham. I usually park in a parking bay, on this occasion I parked as I did because I was helping my 71 year old mother could not walk very far and she needs me to park as close as possible to the shopping area. She has come to the UK to visit me for 6 months and recently had knee replacement surgery, she is in some pain while she recovers and she would find it very difficult if she had to walk a longer distance.
As I understand it she would not be eligible for a blue badge due to not being a UK resident, she will be applying for a disabled badge when she returns home.

Now I received the letter "Notice to Owner" today and please check and advise how to make representations.

Thank you,
Neil


[attachment deleted by admin]