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Live cases legal advice => Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) => Topic started by: blackknight on May 24, 2024, 03:11:34 pm

Title: Re: Birmingham CC CAZ PCN after paying
Post by: cp8759 on May 31, 2024, 12:18:05 am
@mdann52 please show us the PCN and the payment receipts.
Title: Re: Birmingham CC CAZ PCN after paying
Post by: Incandescent on May 28, 2024, 10:02:57 am
OK, so I now suggest you give us the exact details of when you booked the CAZ fees, and the dates of using them. It could be their system is flawed.
Title: Re: Birmingham CC CAZ PCN after paying
Post by: mdann52 on May 28, 2024, 09:09:49 am
I have had a quick look and there is nothing in the Act about the management of payments for road user charges. It does seem quite unfair the way they deal with payments that are not used "on the day".

I thought you were buying, in effect, a "licence" for a given day, so I wouldn't expect if you don't use it you would be able to get it back.
The regs are definitely silent on refunds!
But when you pay in advance, I don't think any date is required.

I've just checked, and if you pay on the UK GOV site you are required to select date(s) even in advance
Title: Re: Birmingham CC CAZ PCN after paying
Post by: cp8759 on May 27, 2024, 08:00:09 pm
Hello all.

I made a credit card payment to cover three visits to central Birmingham over consecutive days at the beginning of May.

Today I received three PCNs alleging the breach of the CAZ on these days. Strange when I recall paying for the days.
@blackknight so when did you make these payments, and what were the dates of your visits?

In any event please upload the PCN, following the guidance here (https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/read-this-first-before-posting-your-case!-this-section-is-for-council-tfl-dartme/).
Title: Re: Birmingham CC CAZ PCN after paying
Post by: Incandescent on May 25, 2024, 10:52:59 am
I have had a quick look and there is nothing in the Act about the management of payments for road user charges. It does seem quite unfair the way they deal with payments that are not used "on the day".

I thought you were buying, in effect, a "licence" for a given day, so I wouldn't expect if you don't use it you would be able to get it back.
The regs are definitely silent on refunds!
But when you pay in advance, I don't think any date is required.
Title: Re: Birmingham CC CAZ PCN after paying
Post by: mdann52 on May 25, 2024, 09:48:54 am
I have had a quick look and there is nothing in the Act about the management of payments for road user charges. It does seem quite unfair the way they deal with payments that are not used "on the day".

I thought you were buying, in effect, a "licence" for a given day, so I wouldn't expect if you don't use it you would be able to get it back.
The regs are definitely silent on refunds!
Title: Re: Birmingham CC CAZ PCN after paying
Post by: Incandescent on May 24, 2024, 07:36:58 pm
Rules for payment are here :-
https://www.brumbreathes.co.uk/info/32/charges-operation/34/paying-drive-clean-air-zone

Basically, you can only pay 6 days in advance and 6 days in arrears. However, the Order is silent on what happens if moneys are paid but not used. I suspect they have just made the no refund rule up and are not in compliance with the legislation but you'll only find out if you take them to adjudication. The legislation is the Transport Act 2000 see here for the relevant section:-
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2000/38/part/III/chapter/I
and the regulations for PCN enforcement are here :-
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2013/1783/regulation/7/made

I have had a quick look and there is nothing in the Act about the management of payments for road user charges. It does seem quite unfair the way they deal with payments that are not used "on the day".

As far as I can see, the email told you that your payment for road use had expired, being beyond 13 days since payment was made. It then warned you to make a payment for your car or you'd get a PCN.



Title: Re: Birmingham CC CAZ PCN after paying
Post by: blackknight on May 24, 2024, 05:04:39 pm
(https://imgur.com/a/kdLlyJC)
Title: Re: Birmingham CC CAZ PCN after paying
Post by: John U.K. on May 24, 2024, 04:04:14 pm
Quote
I made a credit card payment to cover three visits to central Birmingham over consecutive days at the beginning of May.

Do Birmingham allow payment in advance? I am wondering if the payments were treated as payment for the day the payment was made?

What sort of paper trail have you got for the payments? Is there an online record or receipt?

Have a read of https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/read-this-first-before-posting-your-case!-this-section-is-for-council-tfl-dartme/

and please post up the first page of each PCN and the other sides of one PCN.
Only redact name and address.
Title: Birmingham CC CAZ PCN after paying
Post by: blackknight on May 24, 2024, 03:11:34 pm
Hello all.

I made a credit card payment to cover three visits to central Birmingham over consecutive days at the beginning of May.

Today I received three PCNs alleging the breach of the CAZ on these days. Strange when I recall paying for the days.

I checked my email and I found one saying that :

“ Your payment to Drive in a clean air zone has expired.

The charge for your journey is not paid. You may receive a penalty charge notice (PCN) if payment is not made before 11:59pm on the sixth day after you drove in.

Clean air zone: Birmingham”

What does this mean?