Free Traffic Legal Advice

Live cases legal advice => Private parking tickets => Topic started by: phlegmborough on May 21, 2024, 11:18:08 am

Title: Re: PCN from Britannia Parking | Failed to make valid payment | Flamborough North Landing Overflow Carpark
Post by: phlegmborough2 on August 20, 2025, 02:16:57 pm
Please post a copy of the N279 Notice of Discontinuance.

Here it is: https://imgur.com/a/PpBDkDl
Title: Re: PCN from Britannia Parking | Failed to make valid payment | Flamborough North Landing Overflow Carpark
Post by: b789 on August 20, 2025, 01:59:48 pm
Please post a copy of the N279 Notice of Discontinuance.
Title: Re: PCN from Britannia Parking | Failed to make valid payment | Flamborough North Landing Overflow Carpark
Post by: phlegmborough2 on August 20, 2025, 01:19:43 pm
Hi,

Just a quick update: DCB Legal has discontinued the proceedings! This comes a month after the mediation, and after numerous unanswered calls from DCB Legal.

Thanks so much @b789 and @DWMB2 for all the help!!!
Title: Re: PCN from Britannia Parking | Failed to make valid payment | Flamborough North Landing Overflow Carpark
Post by: b789 on May 25, 2025, 12:03:55 pm
Having received your own N180 (make sure it is not simply a copy of the claimants N180), do not use the paper form. Ignore all the other forms that came with it. you can discard those. Download your own here and fill it in on your computer. You sign it by simply typing your full name in the signature box.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/673341e779e9143625613543/N180_1124.pdf

Here are the answers to some of the less obvious questions:

• The name of the court is "Civil National Business Centre".

• To be completed by "Your full name" and you are the "Defendant".

• C1: "YES"

• D1: "NO". Reason: "I wish to question the Claimant about their evidence at a hearing in person and to expose omissions and any misleading or incorrect evidence or assertions.
Given the Claimant is a firm who complete cut & paste parking case paperwork for a living, having this case heard solely on papers would appear to put the Claimant at an unfair advantage, especially as they would no doubt prefer the Defendant not to have the opportunity to expose the issues in the Claimants template submissions or speak as the only true witness to events in question
.."

• F1: Whichever is your nearest county court. Use this to find it: https://www.find-court-tribunal.service.gov.uk/search-option

• F3: "1".

• Sign the form by simply typing your full name for the signature.

When you have completed the form, attach it to a single email addressed to both dq.cnbc@justice.gov.uk and info@dcblegal.co.uk and CC in yourself. Make sure that the claim number is in the subject field of the email.
Title: Re: PCN from Britannia Parking | Failed to make valid payment | Flamborough North Landing Overflow Carpark
Post by: phlegmborough2 on May 25, 2025, 09:16:55 am
Hi,

I've received the N180 Directions Questionaire in the post. Unfortunately we were away and have only just seen it, I have till 30 May to complete it.

I understand that there is an online way to complete it, but I cant find it. Do I also copy DCB Legal?

Or do I have to fill out the hard copy and do so by snail mail? Thanks!!
Title: Re: PCN from Britannia Parking | Failed to make valid payment | Flamborough North Landing Overflow Carpark
Post by: b789 on March 25, 2025, 06:15:07 pm
yes.
Title: Re: PCN from Britannia Parking | Failed to make valid payment | Flamborough North Landing Overflow Carpark
Post by: DWMB2 on March 25, 2025, 05:26:50 pm
Yes
Title: Re: PCN from Britannia Parking | Failed to make valid payment | Flamborough North Landing Overflow Carpark
Post by: phlegmborough2 on March 25, 2025, 03:55:49 pm
Hi,

Silly question, but for the PDF, does the defence come first?
Title: Re: PCN from Britannia Parking | Failed to make valid payment | Flamborough North Landing Overflow Carpark
Post by: phlegmborough2 on March 25, 2025, 08:51:09 am
With an issue date of 19th March, you have until 4pm on Monday 7th April to submit your defence. If you submit an Acknowledgement of Service (AoS) before then, you would then have until 4pm on Tuesday 22nd April to submit your defence.

If you want to submit an AoS then follow the instructions in this linked PDF:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/xvqu3bask5m0zir/money-claim-online-How-to-Acknowledge.pdf?dl=0

Otherwise, here is the defence and link to the draft order that goes with it. You only need to edit your name and the claim number. You sign the defence by typing your full name for the signature and date it. There is nothing to edit in the draft order.

When you're ready you combine both documents as a single PDF attachment and send as an attachment in an email to claimresponses.cnbc@justice.gov.uk and CC in yourself. The claim number must be in the email subject field and in the body of the email just put: "Please find attached the defence and draft order in the matter of Britannia Parking Group Ltd v [your full name] Claim no.: [claim number]."

Quote
IN THE COUNTY COURT
Claim No: [Claim Number]

BETWEEN:

Britannia Parking Group Ltd

Claimant

- and -

[Defendant's Full Name]


Defendant



DEFENCE

1. The Defendant denies the claim in its entirety. The Defendant asserts that there is no liability to the Claimant and that no debt is owed. The claim is without merit and does not adequately disclose any comprehensible cause of action.

2. There is a lack of precise detail in the Particulars of Claim (PoC) in respect of the factual and legal allegations made against the Defendant such that the PoC do not comply with CPR 16.4.

3. The Defendant is unable to plead properly to the PoC because:

(a) The contract referred to is not detailed or attached to the PoC in accordance with CPR PD 16(7.5);

(b) The PoC do not state the exact wording of the clause (or clauses) of the terms and conditions of the contract (or contracts) which is/are relied on;

(c) The PoC do not adequately set out the reason (or reasons) why the claimant asserts the defendant has breached the contract (or contracts)

(d) The PoC do not state with sufficient particularity exactly where the breach occurred, the exact time when the breach occurred and how long it is alleged that the vehicle was parked before the parking charge was allegedly incurred;

(e) The PoC do not state precisely how the sum claimed is calculated, including the basis for any statutory interest, damages, or other charges;

(f) The PoC do not state what proportion of the claim is the parking charge and what proportion is damages;

(g) The PoC do not provide clarity on whether the Defendant is sued as the driver or the keeper of the vehicle, as the claimant cannot plead alternative causes of action without specificity.

4. The Defendant attaches to this defence a copy of a draft order approved by a district judge at another court. The court struck out the claim of its own initiative after determining that the Particulars of Claim failed to comply with CPR 16.4. The judge noted that the claimant had failed to:

(i) Set out the exact wording of the clause (or clauses) of the terms and conditions relied upon;

(ii) Adequately explain the reasons why the defendant was allegedly in breach of contract;

(iii) Provide separate, detailed Particulars of Claim as permitted under CPR PD 7C.5.2(2).

(iv) The court further observed that, given the modest sum claimed, requiring further case management steps would be disproportionate and contrary to the overriding objective. Accordingly, the judge struck out the claim outright rather than permitting an amendment.

5. The Defendant submits that the same reasoning applies in this case and invites the court to adopt a similar approach by striking out the claim for the Claimant’s failure to comply with CPR 16.4.

Statement of truth

I believe that the facts stated in this Defence are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.

Signed:


Date:

Draft Order for the defence (https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/tcewefk7daozuje25chkl/Strikeout-order-v2.pdf?rlkey=wxnymo8mwcma2jj8xihjm7pdx&st=nbtf0cn6&dl=0)

Thank you!!
Title: Re: PCN from Britannia Parking | Failed to make valid payment | Flamborough North Landing Overflow Carpark
Post by: b789 on March 23, 2025, 12:07:17 am
With an issue date of 19th March, you have until 4pm on Monday 7th April to submit your defence. If you submit an Acknowledgement of Service (AoS) before then, you would then have until 4pm on Tuesday 22nd April to submit your defence.

If you want to submit an AoS then follow the instructions in this linked PDF:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/xvqu3bask5m0zir/money-claim-online-How-to-Acknowledge.pdf?dl=0

Otherwise, here is the defence and link to the draft order that goes with it. You only need to edit your name and the claim number. You sign the defence by typing your full name for the signature and date it. There is nothing to edit in the draft order.

When you're ready you combine both documents as a single PDF attachment and send as an attachment in an email to claimresponses.cnbc@justice.gov.uk and CC in yourself. The claim number must be in the email subject field and in the body of the email just put: "Please find attached the defence and draft order in the matter of Britannia Parking Group Ltd v [your full name] Claim no.: [claim number]."

Quote
IN THE COUNTY COURT
Claim No: [Claim Number]

BETWEEN:

Britannia Parking Group Ltd

Claimant

- and -

[Defendant's Full Name]


Defendant



DEFENCE

1. The Defendant denies the claim in its entirety. The Defendant asserts that there is no liability to the Claimant and that no debt is owed. The claim is without merit and does not adequately disclose any comprehensible cause of action.

2. There is a lack of precise detail in the Particulars of Claim (PoC) in respect of the factual and legal allegations made against the Defendant such that the PoC do not comply with CPR 16.4.

3. The Defendant is unable to plead properly to the PoC because:

(a) The contract referred to is not detailed or attached to the PoC in accordance with CPR PD 16(7.5);

(b) The PoC do not state the exact wording of the clause (or clauses) of the terms and conditions of the contract (or contracts) which is/are relied on;

(c) The PoC do not adequately set out the reason (or reasons) why the claimant asserts the defendant has breached the contract (or contracts)

(d) The PoC do not state with sufficient particularity exactly where the breach occurred, the exact time when the breach occurred and how long it is alleged that the vehicle was parked before the parking charge was allegedly incurred;

(e) The PoC do not state precisely how the sum claimed is calculated, including the basis for any statutory interest, damages, or other charges;

(f) The PoC do not state what proportion of the claim is the parking charge and what proportion is damages;

(g) The PoC do not provide clarity on whether the Defendant is sued as the driver or the keeper of the vehicle, as the claimant cannot plead alternative causes of action without specificity.

4. The Defendant attaches to this defence a copy of a draft order approved by a district judge at another court. The court struck out the claim of its own initiative after determining that the Particulars of Claim failed to comply with CPR 16.4. The judge noted that the claimant had failed to:

(i) Set out the exact wording of the clause (or clauses) of the terms and conditions relied upon;

(ii) Adequately explain the reasons why the defendant was allegedly in breach of contract;

(iii) Provide separate, detailed Particulars of Claim as permitted under CPR PD 7C.5.2(2).

(iv) The court further observed that, given the modest sum claimed, requiring further case management steps would be disproportionate and contrary to the overriding objective. Accordingly, the judge struck out the claim outright rather than permitting an amendment.

5. The Defendant submits that the same reasoning applies in this case and invites the court to adopt a similar approach by striking out the claim for the Claimant’s failure to comply with CPR 16.4.

Statement of truth

I believe that the facts stated in this Defence are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.

Signed:


Date:

Draft Order for the defence (https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/tcewefk7daozuje25chkl/Strikeout-order-v2.pdf?rlkey=wxnymo8mwcma2jj8xihjm7pdx&st=nbtf0cn6&dl=0)
Title: Re: PCN from Britannia Parking | Failed to make valid payment | Flamborough North Landing Overflow Carpark
Post by: phlegmborough2 on March 22, 2025, 07:44:46 pm
You have redacted the date of the Claim. What is the issue date of the claim?

Hi, it's 19 March!
Title: Re: PCN from Britannia Parking | Failed to make valid payment | Flamborough North Landing Overflow Carpark
Post by: b789 on March 22, 2025, 01:15:42 pm
You have redacted the date of the Claim. What is the issue date of the claim?
Title: Re: PCN from Britannia Parking | Failed to make valid payment | Flamborough North Landing Overflow Carpark
Post by: jfollows on March 22, 2025, 11:32:52 am
Well trodden path.
See, for example, https://www.ftla.uk/private-parking-tickets/hounslowpcn-received-from-euro-car-parks/
You will follow the same process, optionally submit an Acknowledgment of Service, submit a defence, submit a Directions Questionnaire, see the case transferred to a court local to you, and see DCB Legal discontinue.
Their tactics are to frighten people into paying with scary words like “court” and “CCJ”.
Before they give in they make increasingly desperate attempts to settle out of court. Never take their calls and block their number.

PS important you need to edit the document you posted to remove the password, primarily, and probably your other personal details as well. Don’t remove any dates, though. I could now log on and cause mischief with the information you have not redacted, although I won’t!
Title: Re: PCN from Britannia Parking | Failed to make valid payment | Flamborough North Landing Overflow Carpark
Post by: phlegmborough2 on March 22, 2025, 10:06:04 am
Hi everyone,

The court claim has come in! Please find the letter here: https://imgur.com/a/RhHS0UZ

What are my next steps to fight these c**ts?

Thanks so much!
Title: Re: PCN from Britannia Parking | Failed to make valid payment | Flamborough North Landing Overflow Carpark
Post by: DWMB2 on November 09, 2024, 10:38:51 am
Yes, ignore the debt collectors.

DCBL are debt collectors, the similarly named DCB Legal are solicitors. If you get a Letter of Claim from them, come back to us.
Title: Re: PCN from Britannia Parking | Failed to make valid payment | Flamborough North Landing Overflow Carpark
Post by: phlegmborough2 on November 09, 2024, 08:58:36 am
Hi everyone,

As expected, I have received a letter from DCBL wanting me to settle 170quid or be taken to court.

I guess the next course of action is to do nothing and wait? Thanks so much!

Link to letter: https://imgur.com/a/cZ4bF3d
Title: Re: PCN from Britannia Parking | Failed to make valid payment | Flamborough North Landing Overflow Carpark
Post by: b789 on September 22, 2024, 11:41:22 am
Hi b789,

I'm close to paying the fine because I've read that the PCN may increase and I might end up having to pay hundreds, if not thousands more, if I do end up in court. The thing is, the Driver was indeed late by 20 minutes to the car, not sure if the Judge will rule in our favour, unless as the Keeper I can say the fine is disproportionate to the misdeed since the Driver did actually pay.... but was late to the car due to external circumstances and having to walk up a long flight of stairs with a 2 year old to the carpark.

As pointed out, it is your money. However, where on earth do you get the notion that it is a 'fine" of any sort? After everything that has been discussed above, nowhere has there been any mention of the speculative invoice being a fine. You assume that Britannia Parking are some sort of 'authority' that has statutory powers when, in fact, they are simply an unregulated private company.

Also, the misconception that it could escalate into the "thousands" is exactly what they want the low-hanging fruit on the gullible tree to think. Just because a POPLA assessor did not agree with your appeal has absolutely no bearing on any outcome, even if it went all the way to a county court small claims track hearing. The most that would be at risk, should it ever get to hearing and you were unsuccessful is around £200. The whole point of the small-claims track is that costs are fixed.

Where you got the idea that it could run into "thousands" is baffling. Whilst they will attempt to increase the amount owed by an added, fake £70 in the next stage, that added amount would not be allowed by the court. It is added by these unregulated companies because they hope that you will fail to respond correctly to a claim and they will get a judgment by default.

IF you are prepared to fight this, I expect that they will follow the well trodden path of sending debt collector letters which demand £170. Once those letters have been ignored (never, ever, ever respond to a third party debt collector) they will instruct a bulk litigation firm of solicitors, DCB Legal, to issue a Letter of Claim (LoC) giving you 30 days to pay (as opposed to the harmless DRA letters which only give you 14 days to pay) otherwise they will issue a claim.

Once claim is issued, a defence is submitted and once they realise that you intend to defend the claim, they will discontinue before any hearing fee has to be paid.

So, there is no risk of "thousands" if, the worst case scenario, you were to be unsuccessful even if the claim went all the way to hearing. There is a very valid defence in that the signage at the location is poor and a contract cannot have been formed. However, it is very highly probably that they would never see this through all the way to a hearing and they would discontinue.

You choice, your money. We're here to assist should you decide to fight.

Title: Re: PCN from Britannia Parking | Failed to make valid payment | Flamborough North Landing Overflow Carpark
Post by: DWMB2 on September 22, 2024, 11:03:41 am
It's your money and therefore your choice but, for a single ticket, I can see no good reason you would end up paying thousands.

If they file a claim it will be for the original £100, legal fees of £50, a hearing fee of £35, and interest at 8% per annum. They will also seek to add on £70 of debt collector fees but these can usually be successfully challenged.
Title: Re: PCN from Britannia Parking | Failed to make valid payment | Flamborough North Landing Overflow Carpark
Post by: phlegmborough2 on September 22, 2024, 10:29:35 am
Hi b789,

I'm close to paying the fine because I've read that the PCN may increase and I might end up having to pay hundreds, if not thousands more, if I do end up in court. The thing is, the Driver was indeed late by 20 minutes to the car, not sure if the Judge will rule in our favour, unless as the Keeper I can say the fine is disproportionate to the misdeed since the Driver did actually pay.... but was late to the car due to external circumstances and having to walk up a long flight of stairs with a 2 year old to the carpark.
Title: Re: PCN from Britannia Parking | Failed to make valid payment | Flamborough North Landing Overflow Carpark
Post by: b789 on September 16, 2024, 11:27:27 am
It's on the copy of the contract they sent you.

A "dormant" company is one that has had no significant accounting transactions during a financial year, as defined by HMRC and Companies House. This status primarily impacts the company's financial reporting and tax obligations, not necessarily its legal capacity to enter into contracts.

A dormant company can remain registered and retain its legal status as a separate entity, which means it is still capable of entering into contracts. However, whether a contract entered into by a dormant company is valid depends on various factors:

If Britannia is relying on a contract with a dormant company, it may be worth examining whether the company was properly authorised to enter the agreement and whether the contract breaches its dormant status requirements. If so, this might affect Britannia's ability to rely on the contract, though it may not necessarily invalidate it outright.

Happy sleuthing.
Title: Re: PCN from Britannia Parking | Failed to make valid payment | Flamborough North Landing Overflow Carpark
Post by: phlegmborough2 on September 16, 2024, 10:41:12 am
Hi b789,

Thank you so so much for your insightful reply as always. Yes, I followed your advice to a T but the &*#@^!*# POPLA still rejected it.

May I know how did you find out that Flamborough Holidays Ltd owns the carpark? I consider myself somewhat am internet sleuth but I was unable to trace the carpark's owner! It seems like the company is a dormant company though.

I'll try to look for Flamborough Holidays Ltd's contact anyway. I'm not keen to give up at this stage but I'm not looking forward to the barrage of debtor's letters, "fake" they may be!!
Title: Re: PCN from Britannia Parking | Failed to make valid payment | Flamborough North Landing Overflow Carpark
Post by: b789 on September 14, 2024, 10:45:00 am
What two option? CAB are totally useless when it comes to dealing parking charges from unregulated private parking companies. As for paying? There is no obligation whatsoever. A POPLA decision has absolutely no bearing on any future action. The POPLA decision is not binding on you.

The signage comparison I showed you earlier in the thread, did you put something similar together  for the appeal?

(https://i.imgur.com/oJGAgvp.jpeg)

Did you attempt to contact the landowner, Flamborough Holidays Ltd to try and get the PCN cancelled? When you submitted your POPLA appeal, did you use the text box on their web form or did you upload it as a PDF file, fully formatted?

Anyway, so POPLA appeal was unsuccessful. The actual choices you now have depend on how badly aggrieved you feel. You can opt to pay it or continue to fight it.

If you want to continue to fight it, you have to be prepared for the possibility that it will be decided in the ultimate dispute resolution service, the small claims track in the county court. Only a judge can decide whether you owe Britannia a deb or not.

Just because a POPLA assessor cannot see the legal points, does not mean that a judge won't. The point is whether a valid contract existed between the driver and Britannia and if it was a valid contract, can the liability for that contract be transferred to the Keeper?

Is the landowner contract valid? We don't know because so much of it is redacted. We don't know what authority the people who signed it have as we don't know who they are and their positions within each company.

There is much more that can be argued and it wouldn't be decided by some anonymous "assessor" with very limited (if any) legal training that is funded by the very company they are supposed to be independent of. A judge is completely impartial.

Britannia and their ilk hope that you are low-hanging fruit on the gullible tree and will now capitulate because you are not aware of your options and rights. We know what your rights and options are.

If you decide to give up and pay, that's OK. It's your choice. If you feel the PCN was issued unfairly, then you fight. However, you should know what to expect and the likely cost if ultimately you are unsuccessful.

If you decide to fight, then you are going to receive a load of debt collector letters with charge inflated with a fake £70 fee. Debt collectors are to be ignored. They are not a party to the contract that the driver allegedly breached. They operate on a no-win, no-fee basis and are meant to try and scare you into paying. They can be safely ignored and they have absolutely no power to do anything.

Eventually, Britannia may decide to either give up or issue a claim in the county court. Even if they issue a claim, that does not mean that they will follow it though all the way to a hearing. They, like the debt collectors hope that once they have initiated litigation, you will capitulate and pay up.

If a claim is filed it will be for the £100 charge, £70 fake added damages, bit of interest at 8%/annum, £50 fixed legal fees  and £35 court fee. So around £255. A lot of people baulk at this point out of fear of the idea that it may go to court and end up paying this amount. That is just about the stupidest move anyone can make because if it went to a hearing, even if they lost, most judges would not allow the fake added £70 not the interest. However, that is a worst case scenario.

If you were successful, you don't owe them a penny and you can claim up to £95 costs. Of course, as I mentioned, it may never get as far as a hearing. In many cases, they eventually discontinue once they realise that you are not the low-hanging fruit they thought they could pick and move on to other ripe pickings.

So, you have to decide what you want to do. Please don't even think about the CAB. They really are clueless when it comes to unregulated private parking companies.
Title: Re: PCN from Britannia Parking | Failed to make valid payment | Flamborough North Landing Overflow Carpark
Post by: phlegmborough2 on September 14, 2024, 09:18:40 am
Hi everyone,

Unsurprisingly, my POPLA appeal has failed. This was their response:

"The appellant disputes that the notice to keeper complies with the requirements of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012. They explain that the operator has not shown who it is pursing is the driver of the vehicle. They advise that the images on the PCN do not comply with the British Parking Association code of practice. The appellant questions the adequacy of the signs on the site. The appellant believes that the notice to keeper is inadequate as the reason for issue is not accurate. The appellant has asked to see evidence that the operator holds a valid contract with the landowner. The appellant has provided two photos of the site, a copy of the PCN and details of their payment."

Assessor supporting rational for decision

When assessing an appeal POPLA considers if the parking operator has issued the parking charge notice correctly and if the driver has complied with the terms and conditions for the use of the car park. The signs advises that the driver must pay for their stay or a parking charge of £100 will be issued. Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 sets out the requirements for a notice to keeper within Section 9 the required working is explained. The copy of the notice to keeper provided invites the keeper to pay the charge or name the driver and as such is fully complaint. As the notice to keeper is fully complaint the operator can hold the keeper of the vehicle liable and does not need to show that this was the driver. The operator has provided date and time stamped image taken from its ANPR system. These images are then included on the PCN. There is no requirement for the date and time stamps to be included on the PCN. The images have dated and time stamps which complies with Section 21.5a of the British Parking Association code of practice. A previous POPLA appeal cannot set a president for a subsequent appeal. There is nothing within the code of practice that says the images cant be cropped and Section 21.51 (f) advises that they can be enhanced the image of the VRM for clarity, cropping and zooming the images meets these requirements. I note that this can be seen on the example of the PCN provided by the appellant. The appellant has provided evidence of a payment which they made to park at the site. This evidence shows that the driver paid to park for three hours. The ANPR images show that the driver exceeded this period on the site. As the drivers payment did not cover their stay the drivers payment was not valid. As such the correct reason for issue has been used. The operator has handled this appeal an a professional and reasonable way at all points during the appeals process in full compliance with Section 2.6, and 9.1 of the British Parking Association code of practice. The appellant and the operator have provided photos of the signs. Section 19 of the British Parking Association code of practice sets the requirements for signs. Section 19.1 deals with entrance signs and Section 19.3 deals with general signage. Further to this the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 advises that the amount of the PCN must be clear. Both sets of evidence provided shows that there is a clear entrance sign. The operator’s images confirm that clear prominent signs have been placed throughout the site. These signs are dark blue so stand out. The signs have been placed in locations were they can easily be seen. I also note that the amount of the PCN is clearly visible and has been placed in a white box to make it stand out. This meets the requirements of both the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 and the British Parking Association code of practice. Section 7 of the British Parking Association code of practice advises that the operator must have a valid contract for a site which it does not own. The operator has provided a redacted copy of this contract which is sufficient to show that it has the authority to issue PCN on this site. There is no requirement for the operator to provide an unredacted contract. After considering the evidence from both parties, the driver did not purchase enough parking and therefore did not comply with the terms and conditions of the site. As such, I am satisfied the parking charge has been issued correctly and I must refuse the appeal."

Would appreciate any advice on how to handle this. There are only two options for me now - pay the 100 quid or head to the Citizen's Advice Bureau (not sure how the latter is going to work though!)

Thanks so much!
Title: Re: PCN from Britannia Parking | Failed to make valid payment | Flamborough North Landing Overflow Carpark
Post by: b789 on July 23, 2024, 11:15:06 am
If I don't respond to Britannia's comments, would that lower my odds of winning the appeal?

That depends on whether they have rebutted all your points? If they haven't, point this out to the POPLA assessor in your response to the operators evidence.

Whatever the outcome, it is not binding on you although, I'm sure you'd accept a win.

It will all depend on which POPLA assessor makes the decision. If your appeal is unsuccessful, it has no bearing whatsoever on any future action.

My advice is to check the operators response and point out anything that has not been properly rebutted. If you lose, never mind. You still do not owe them any debt.

If they want to try and revere any alleged debt, they will have to make a claim in the county court and prove their case. You would easily defend any claim which is likely to be struck out anyway.

The only risk, which is minuscule, is if it actually went all the way to a hearing and you were unsuccessful would be ~£200 or less and no chance of a CCJ on your credit record. However, as I have stated and based on years of experience adding on these cases, the most likely outcome of a claim is that it will either be discontinued or struck-out.

With that in mind, you can make a decision on what to do should your POPLA appeal be unsuccessful.
Title: Re: PCN from Britannia Parking | Failed to make valid payment | Flamborough North Landing Overflow Carpark
Post by: phlegmborough2 on July 23, 2024, 11:05:52 am
The length of their response is not necessarily indicative of its quality. Much of it will be boilerplate, and some perhaps not even pertinent to the case in hand.

You should read through it carefully - look for any points within it that support your appeal. Check they have addressed all the points in your appeal - if they have not, draw attention to this failure. If any evidence is missing, point this out.

Take particular care to look at the land holder contract they have provided, is it valid? Check the dates, was it in force at the time of the parking incident?

I can't promise I'll be able to comb the whole document, but if you upload a version (with any of your personal details removed) to something like Dropbox or Google Drive, we can take a quick look for any obvious deficiencies.

If I don't respond to Britannia's comments, would that lower my odds of winning the appeal?
Title: Re: PCN from Britannia Parking | Failed to make valid payment | Flamborough North Landing Overflow Carpark
Post by: phlegmborough2 on July 22, 2024, 10:41:25 am
The length of their response is not necessarily indicative of its quality. Much of it will be boilerplate, and some perhaps not even pertinent to the case in hand.

You should read through it carefully - look for any points within it that support your appeal. Check they have addressed all the points in your appeal - if they have not, draw attention to this failure. If any evidence is missing, point this out.

Take particular care to look at the land holder contract they have provided, is it valid? Check the dates, was it in force at the time of the parking incident?

I can't promise I'll be able to comb the whole document, but if you upload a version (with any of your personal details removed) to something like Dropbox or Google Drive, we can take a quick look for any obvious deficiencies.

Thanks so much again! I have uploaded the document here (https://drive.google.com/file/d/1iyWQgnuLlIve_3TlSfp-IMpAesIe1Ulm/view?usp=sharing).
Title: Re: PCN from Britannia Parking | Failed to make valid payment | Flamborough North Landing Overflow Carpark
Post by: phlegmborough2 on July 22, 2024, 10:37:13 am
Hi, yes most of it is boilerplate but I can't find where the landowner contract is!

I have uploaded the PDF here (https://drive.google.com/file/d/1l9i4HMwCBxrMIbnL2--xSx6_RhQh3U4P/view?usp=sharing), with personal details censored.

Thanks a lot once again. I owe you a coffee AND ten pints whatever you drink!

Floating by - i don't know how you edited your file but for whatever reason the red blotches that you have put on take time to load in - I can see the date/registration number for a few seconds before your censoring kicks in.

also as an FYI:  on Pages 40 (left image) and pages  62, 63, 65 - there isn't an attempt at redacting your car plate at all.

Phew, thanks for this!!
Title: Re: PCN from Britannia Parking | Failed to make valid payment | Flamborough North Landing Overflow Carpark
Post by: BXENE_25 on July 20, 2024, 11:23:48 am
Hi, yes most of it is boilerplate but I can't find where the landowner contract is!

I have uploaded the PDF here (https://drive.google.com/file/d/1l9i4HMwCBxrMIbnL2--xSx6_RhQh3U4P/view?usp=sharing), with personal details censored.

Thanks a lot once again. I owe you a coffee AND ten pints whatever you drink!

Floating by - i don't know how you edited your file but for whatever reason the red blotches that you have put on take time to load in - I can see the date/registration number for a few seconds before your censoring kicks in.

also as an FYI:  on Pages 40 (left image) and pages  62, 63, 65 - there isn't an attempt at redacting your car plate at all.
Title: Re: PCN from Britannia Parking | Failed to make valid payment | Flamborough North Landing Overflow Carpark
Post by: phlegmborough2 on July 19, 2024, 11:29:47 pm
Hi, yes most of it is boilerplate but I can't find where the landowner contract is!

I have uploaded the PDF here (https://drive.google.com/file/d/1l9i4HMwCBxrMIbnL2--xSx6_RhQh3U4P/view?usp=sharing), with personal details censored.

Thanks a lot once again. I owe you a coffee AND ten pints whatever you drink!
Title: Re: PCN from Britannia Parking | Failed to make valid payment | Flamborough North Landing Overflow Carpark
Post by: DWMB2 on July 19, 2024, 10:30:06 pm
The length of their response is not necessarily indicative of its quality. Much of it will be boilerplate, and some perhaps not even pertinent to the case in hand.

You should read through it carefully - look for any points within it that support your appeal. Check they have addressed all the points in your appeal - if they have not, draw attention to this failure. If any evidence is missing, point this out.

Take particular care to look at the land holder contract they have provided, is it valid? Check the dates, was it in force at the time of the parking incident?

I can't promise I'll be able to comb the whole document, but if you upload a version (with any of your personal details removed) to something like Dropbox or Google Drive, we can take a quick look for any obvious deficiencies.
Title: Re: PCN from Britannia Parking | Failed to make valid payment | Flamborough North Landing Overflow Carpark
Post by: phlegmborough2 on July 19, 2024, 10:19:37 pm
Hi, thanks everyone for the replies, especially DWMB2!

As expected, Brittania has responded to my POPLA appeal with a whopping 78 page long document, with "7 days to provide my comments on the operator evidence."

I doubt I'm going to win the POPLA stage!
Title: Re: PCN from Britannia Parking | Failed to make valid payment | Flamborough North Landing Overflow Carpark
Post by: DWMB2 on July 09, 2024, 09:20:25 am
"Other" under reason for appeal.

Quote
"I was not the driver or the registered keeper of the vehicle at the time of the alleged improper parking"
Given that you are the registered keeper, you can't truthfully select that option. Just select "Other" where possible.
Title: Re: PCN from Britannia Parking | Failed to make valid payment | Flamborough North Landing Overflow Carpark
Post by: phlegmborough2 on July 09, 2024, 09:13:49 am
I'm on the popla site now, should the appeal be made under "Others" and "I was not the driver or the registered keeper of the vehicle at the time of the alleged improper parking"?
Title: Re: PCN from Britannia Parking | Failed to make valid payment | Flamborough North Landing Overflow Carpark
Post by: b789 on July 09, 2024, 08:46:24 am
Those photos do show the lack of any prominent signage except for the entrance sign. How is a driver supposed to read all that small print whilst navigating on a corner with the sign on the passenger (nearside) side.

If you have any close up of any actual terms sign in the car park, either your own or a case file one from the PPC, you could show them side by side with the sign from the Beavis case to highlight the differences, similar to this:

(https://i.imgur.com/GXtcIcG.jpeg)

The point is to show how the charge for breaching terms is obvious in the Beavis sign and hidden away in the other sign. It is a requirement of PoFA and thus the CoP of the AOS that the charge is adequately brought to the attention of the driver. In the example above, the ECP sign fails to do so.
Title: Re: PCN from Britannia Parking | Failed to make valid payment | Flamborough North Landing Overflow Carpark
Post by: phlegmborough2 on July 09, 2024, 08:34:48 am
Thank you once again!! I am almost ready to send this.

Would the following images work for the inadequate signage bit? https://imgur.com/a/V9bTdGg
Title: Re: PCN from Britannia Parking | Failed to make valid payment | Flamborough North Landing Overflow Carpark
Post by: b789 on July 09, 2024, 02:13:29 am
Almost all of that is from thousands of previous POPLA appeals and simply adapted to the facts of your case. Chat GPT is not very good when it comes legalese, especially when it comes to the UK legal system. It is not suitable for this kind of thing.

POPLA already know that you have appealed and been rejected by the operator. No need to remind them.

Simply state the POPLA reference number, the PCN number and the VRM then state that this is an appeal by the keeper. There is no legal obligation for the keeper to identify the driver and you decline to do so.

Then the appeal as shown and that’s it.

It is going to come down to whichever assessor receives your appeal. We have seen identical appeals for different keepers at the same location receive different assessments from different assessors with one being successful and the other identical appeal (word for word) be rejected.

It really doesn’t matter though. If it fails, so what? It has no bearing whatsoever on any further action should it progress that far.
Title: Re: PCN from Britannia Parking | Failed to make valid payment | Flamborough North Landing Overflow Carpark
Post by: phlegmborough2 on July 08, 2024, 11:09:41 pm
WOW! That's an insanely detailed reply. I feel ashamed for the slap-dash attempt made with ChatGPT.

Would it be possible to cut and paste your response for the POPLA appeal? I'll start with the beginning:

I, the registered keeper of this vehicle, received a letter dated XX acting as a notice to the registered keeper. My appeal to the operator – Britannia Parking – was submitted on XX and subsequently rejected by a letter dated Monday 13th May 2019. I contend that I, as the keeper, am not liable for the alleged parking charge and moreover, there is no legal obligation for the keeper to identify the driver and I decline to do so.

As such, as the keeper, I wish to appeal against it on the following grounds:

Thanks so much!!!
Title: Re: PCN from Britannia Parking | Failed to make valid payment | Flamborough North Landing Overflow Carpark
Post by: b789 on July 08, 2024, 03:51:04 pm
It's a too short and needs fleshing out. You should state that you are appealing as the keeper and there is no legal obligation for the keeper to identify the driver and you decline to do so.

List the following points which will be raised in your appeal and then expand on each one individually:

1. The NtK does not fully comply with the strict requirements of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (PoFA).
2. The operator has not shown that the individual who it is pursuing is in fact the driver who may have been potentially liable for the charge.
3. The Images of the vehicle contained within the NTK are not compliant with the BPA Code of Practice (CoP).
4. Inadequate signage leading to failure to adhere to PoFA and breach of the BPA CoP.
5. The Notice to Keeper (NtK) has an inaccurate statement of fact.
6. No evidence of landholder authority.

1. The NtK does not fully comply with the strict requirements of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (PoFA).

The operator claims in the NtK that it is relying on PoFA Schedule 4, paragraph 9. The NtK fails to fully comply with the strict requirements of PoFA as it does not include an invitation (nor any synonym of the word) for the keeper to pay the charge. The wording required under PoFA 9(2)(e)(i) states that the NtK MUST invite the keeper to pay the charge or to inform the operator of the driver's details.

This crucial element is missing from the NtK provided by the operator. Partial or even substantial compliance with PoFA is not sufficient. Full compliance is required if the operator intends to hold the keeper liable for the charge.

This was pointed out to the operator in the original appeal but was completely ignored in their response. I cannot be held liable as the keeper because the NtK failed to comply fully with the requirements of PoFA.

2. The operator has not shown that the individual who it is pursuing is in fact the driver who may have been potentially liable for the charge.

In this case with a keeper appellant, yet no PoFA "keeper liability" to rely upon due to the above mentioned failures, the POPLA Assessor must first consider whether they are confident that they know who the driver is, based on the evidence received. No presumption or inference can be made about liability whatsoever.

A vehicle can be driven by any person (with the consent of the owner) as long as the driver is insured.bThere is no dispute that the driver was entitled to drive the car and I can confirm that they were, but I am exercising my right not to name that person.

In this case, as explained due to the failure of the operator to fully comply with the strict requirements of PoFA, no other party apart from an evidenced driver can be told to pay. As there has been no admission regarding who was driving, and no evidence has been produced, it has been held by POPLA on numerous occasions, that a parking charge cannot be enforced against a keeper
without a valid NtK.

As the keeper of the vehicle, it is my right to choose not to name the driver, yet still not be lawfully held liable if an operator is not fully complying with PoFA Schedule 4 as pointed out above. This applies regardless of when the first appeal was made and regardless of whether a purported 'NtK' was served or not, because the fact remains I am only appealing as the keeper and ONLY Schedule 4 of PoFA (or evidence of who was driving) can cause a keeper appellant to be deemed to be the liable party.

3. The Images of the vehicle contained within the NTK are not compliant with the BPA Code of Practice (CoP).

The British Parking Association (BPA) Code of Practice Section 21.5a states that when issuing a parking charge notice the operator may use photographs as evidence that a vehicle was parked in an unauthorised way. The photographs must refer to and confirm the incident which the operator claims was unauthorised. A date and time stamp should be included on the photograph. All photographs used for evidence should be clear and legible and must not be retouched or digitally altered.

The images of the vehicle contained within the NtK do not comply with the requirements of the BPA CoP section 21.5a as they have been digitally altered and cropped from those in the case file. POPLA assessor Gayle Stanton in POPLA appeal case 2413353469 wrote:

"The Images of the vehicle contained within the NTK are not compliant with the BPA. The appellant has stated in the comments that although the operator has provided full date stamped photographs in the case file, the images on the NTK are not compliant. I acknowledge the appellant’s grounds of appeal and I have reviewed the evidence provided by the operator. The British Parking Association (BPA) Code of Practice Section 21.5a states: "When issuing a parking charge notice you may use photographs as evidence that a vehicle was parked in an unauthorised way. The photographs must refer to and confirm the incident which you claim was unauthorised. A date and time stamp should be included on the photograph. All photographs used for evidence should be clear and legible and must not be retouched or digitally altered.

I have reviewed the copy of the NtK provided by the operator and I am not satisfied that the images of the vehicle number plate on the NTK are compliant with Section 21.5a of the BPA Code of Practice. These images are not date stamped and after seeing the full images in the case file they appear to have been digitally altered or cropped to fit on the NTK. This is especially apparent on the colour image on the NTK.

The image recorded of the vehicle entering the site is also not very clear I note that the appellant has raised further grounds for appeal in this case, however as I have allowed the appeal for this reason, I have not considered them. As such, I conclude that the PCN has been issued incorrectly. Accordingly, I must allow this appeal."

As can be evidenced, the image in the NtK has been digitally altered or cropped from the case file images. Therefore the operator has breached the BPA CoP and the PCN cannot have been issued correctly. The assessor is invited to draw the same conclusion as their colleague, Gayle Stanton in POPLA appeal 2413353469.

4. Inadequate signage leading to failure to adhere to PoFA and breach of the BPA CoP.

Section 19.4 of the BPA CoP states "If you intend to use the keeper liability provisions in Schedule 4 of POFA 2012, your signs must give 'adequate notice'. This includes:

The signs at this location fail to prominently give adequate notice of the specified sum payable. Considering that this operator often relies on the Supreme Court appeal decision in the Beavis case, the signage at this location fails miserably when compared to the signage in that case which clearly showed the charge prominently. It should be noted that within PoFA it discusses the clarity that needs to be provided to make a motorist aware of the parking charge. Specifically, it requires that the driver is given "adequate notice" of the charge.

PoFA defines "adequate notice" as follows:

2(2) The reference in the definition of "parking charge" to a sum in the nature of damages is to a sum of which adequate notice was given to drivers of vehicles (when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land).

2(3) For the purposes of sub-paragraph (2) ‘adequate notice’ means notice given by:

(a) the display of one or more notices in accordance with any applicable requirements prescribed in regulations under paragraph 12 for, or for purposes including, the purposes of sub-paragraph (2); or

(b) where no such requirements apply, the display of one or more notices
which:

(i) specify the sum as the charge for unauthorised parking; and

(ii) are adequate to bring the charge to the notice of drivers who park vehicles on the relevant land.

Even in circumstances where PoFA does not apply, I believe this to be a reasonable standard to use when making an independent assessment of the signage in place at the location. The minuscule font used in the signs at this location fail, miserably, to provide adequate notice of any charges.

Considering the signage in place at this particular site against the requirements of Section 19 of the BPA Code of Practice and PoFA, it is beyond any doubt that the signage is not sufficient to give adequate notice of the charge and bring the parking charge to the attention of the motorist.

5. The Notice to Keeper (NtK) has an inaccurate statement of fact.

Receipt as Proof of Payment: The NtK states that the driver failed to make a valid payment. However, the driver has a receipt that confirms the payment was made at the location in question. This receipt serves as proof that the payment was valid and therefore the statement in the NtK is false or deliberately mendacious.

This is a breach of the BPA CoP sections 2.6 and 9.1. Section 2.6 states that by creating the Code the parking industry has set out the minimum standards by which the operator will be judged by anyone coming into professional contact with you. Members of the public should be able to expect that the operator will keep to the law and act in a professional, reasonable and diligent way. By alleging in the NtK that the driver has failed to make a valid payment when the operator has been provided evidence to show that is not the case, is a prime example of the operator not acting in a professional, reasonable and diligent way.

Section 9.1 states that the Code is based on the understanding that operators and drivers should deal with each other in a respectful way. This means that as a member of the AOS, the operator must maintain a professional standard of behaviour in carrying out their operational duties. This includes making sure that you deal with drivers and other members of the public in a professional way, avoiding using aggressive or threatening language.

The operator must not use predatory or misleading tactics to lure drivers into incurring parking charges. Such instances will be viewed as a serious and sanctionable instance of non-compliance and may go to the Professional Conduct Scrutiny Panel.

As the operator has made an allegation which has been shown not to be true, they have acted unprofessionally and in breach of the BPA CoP. As the CoP has been breached, the PCN cannot have been issued correctly.

6. No evidence of landholder authority.

The operator is also put to strict proof, by means of contemporaneous and unredacted evidence, of a chain of authority flowing from the landholder to the operator. It is not accepted that the operator has adhered to the landholder's definitions, exemptions, grace period, hours of operation, etc. and any instructions to cancel charges due to complaints. There is no evidence that the freeholder authorises this operator to issue parking charges or what the land enforcement boundary and start/expiry dates are, nor whether this operator has standing to enforce such charges in their own name rather than a bare licence to act as an agent 'on behalf of' the landowner.

The operator is put to strict proof of full compliance with the BPA Code of Practice. As this operator does not have proprietary interest in the relevant land then I require that they produce an unredacted copy of the contract with the landowner. The contract and any 'site agreement' or 'User Manual' setting out details including exemptions - such as any 'genuine customer' or 'genuine resident' exemptions or any site occupier's 'right of veto' charge cancellation rights - is key evidence to define what this operator is authorised to do and any circumstances where the landowner/firms on site in fact have a right to cancellation of a charge. It cannot be assumed, just because an agent is contracted to merely put some signs up and issue Parking Charge Notices, that the agent is also authorised to make contracts with all or any category of visiting drivers and/or to enforce the charge in court in their own name (legal action regarding land use disputes generally being a matter for a landowner only). Witness statements are not sound evidence of the above, often being pre-signed, generic documents not even identifying the case in hand or even the site rules.

A witness statement might in some cases be accepted by POPLA but in this case I suggest it is unlikely to sufficiently evidence the definition of the services provided by each party to the agreement. Nor would it define vital information such as charging days/times, any exemption clauses, grace periods (which I believe may be longer than the bare minimum times set out in the BPA CoP) and basic information such as the land boundary and bays where enforcement applies/does not apply.

Not forgetting evidence of the various restrictions which the landowner has authorised can give rise to a charge and, of course, how much the landowner  authorises this agent to charge (which cannot be assumed to be the sum on a sign because template private parking terms and sums have been known not to match the actual landowner agreement). Paragraph 7 of the BPA Code of Practice defines the mandatory requirements and I put this operator to strict proof of full compliance:

7.2 If the operator wishes to take legal action on any outstanding parking charges, they must ensure that they have the written authority of the landowner (or their appointed agent) prior to legal action being taken.

7.3 The written authorisation must also set out:

(a) the definition of the land on which you may operate, so that the boundaries of the land can be clearly defined
(b) any conditions or restrictions on parking control and enforcement operations, including any restrictions on hours of operation
(c) any conditions or restrictions on the types of vehicles that may, or may not, be subject to parking control and enforcement
(d) who has the responsibility for putting up and maintaining signs
(e) the definition of the services provided by each party to the agreement.
Title: Re: PCN from Britannia Parking | Failed to make valid payment | Flamborough North Landing Overflow Carpark
Post by: phlegmborough2 on July 08, 2024, 02:12:09 pm
Hi,

I used AI to generate the letter, would this work for my POPLA appeal? Thank you so much!

--

Dear Sir/Madam,
I am writing to appeal the above-detailed Parking Charge Notice (PCN) issued by Britannia Parking. I am the registered keeper of the vehicle in question, and I am appealing this PCN on the following grounds:
1. No Keeper Liability – Non-Compliance with the Protection of Freedoms Act (PoFA) 2012
The Notice to Keeper (NtK) fails to comply with the strict requirements of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (PoFA), specifically:

No Invitation to Keeper as Required by PoFA 9(2)(e)(i): The NtK does not include an invitation for the keeper to pay the charge. The wording required under PoFA 9(2)(e)(i) states that the NtK must invite the keeper to pay the charge or to inform the operator of the driver’s details. This crucial element is missing from the NtK provided by [Parking Company's Name].

2. Breaches of the British Parking Association (BPA) Code of Practice
Alteration of Images on the NtK: The images used on the NtK appear to have been cropped or altered. This is a clear breach of the BPA Code of Practice which mandates that all photographic evidence must be accurate and unaltered to ensure fairness and transparency.

3. Non-Conforming Signage
Non-Conforming Entrance Signage: As per the latest Google Street View (July 2023) of the entrance to the car park, the entrance sign does not comply with the BPA Code of Practice. Specifically:
Absence of BPA Roundel: The entrance sign does not display the BPA roundel, which is a requirement for all compliant signage.
Insufficient Signage: There appears to be a lack of sufficient signage to inform drivers adequately of the terms and conditions of the car park.
Lack of Prominent Signage: The signage present does not meet the required prominence standards set by the BPA, thus failing to bring to the attention of the driver any charges for breaching the terms. This also contravenes the requirements of PoFA, which necessitates clear and visible signage to hold the keeper liable.

4. Inaccurate Statement Regarding Payment
Receipt as Proof of Payment: The NtK stated that the driver failed to make a valid payment. However, I have a receipt that confirms the payment was made at the location in question. This receipt serves as proof that the payment was valid and therefore the statement in the NtK is false.

Conclusion

Given the above points, I contend that the PCN issued is not valid and enforceable. The NtK fails to meet the statutory requirements set out by PoFA, the images have been inappropriately altered, the signage does not meet BPA standards, and the claim regarding the failure to make a valid payment is demonstrably false. Therefore, I kindly request that POPLA upholds my appeal and cancels the PCN.

Please find attached the relevant evidence supporting my appeal, including the NtK, photographic evidence, screenshots from Google Street View, and a copy of the receipt confirming the payment.
Thank you for your attention to this matter. I look forward to your favourable response.
Title: Re: PCN from Britannia Parking | Failed to make valid payment | Flamborough North Landing Overflow Carpark
Post by: b789 on June 20, 2024, 05:09:19 pm
Not unexpected. Just had a quick review of the thread. I see that your receipt for payment shows a Location ID 809164. I did a quick search and came up with this site that confirms that the location on the receipt is indeed for the correct car park:

https://en.parkopedia.co.uk/parking/carpark/north_landing_beach_main/yo15/flamborough

As you are now at POPLA appeal stage, you will need to put together your POPLA appeal. Again, only as the keeper. You will appeal on the points already mentioned in your initial appeal such as no keeper liability due to failure to fully comply with all the regiments of PoFA, namely no invitation (or any synonym of the word) for the keeper to pay the charge as per PoFA 9(2)(e)(i). Also, several breaches of the BPA CoP, namely the alteration of the images used on the NtK having been cropped or altered. Also, looking at the July 2023 GSV of the entrance to the car park, the entrance sign does not conform to the requirements. There is no BPA roundel on the sign. There does not appear to be sufficient signage. Lack of prominence of signage which therefore also fails to comply with the requirements of PoFA in order to adequately bring to the attention of the driver, the charge for breaching any terms.

I suggest you have a look at the BOA CoP and find all the breaches regarding signage and anything else you can think of and list them for your POPLA appeal:

https://www.britishparking.co.uk/write/Documents/AOS/NEW%20Redesigned%20Documents/Version91.2.2024Highlight.pdf

The NtK stated that the driver failed to make a valid payment. You have a receipt that also confirms the location. That therefore is a false statement.

Put together as many points as you can find where Britannia have breached the requirements of PoFA and the BPA CoP. Put them as a list at the start of your POPLA appeal and then expand on each point in detail. You are guiding the POPLA assessor through each point.
Title: Re: PCN from Britannia Parking | Failed to make valid payment | Flamborough North Landing Overflow Carpark
Post by: phlegmborough2 on June 20, 2024, 04:22:10 pm
Hi,

Britannia has finally replied and expected, the appeal failed and it's now in the POPLA stage.

I'm ready to fight these suckers now!! Made the mistake of paying a previous fine but not allowing that to happen anymore.

Please advise on my next steps, thank you!

Can't seem to upload pics, link here for their reply: https://imgur.com/a/TLycDDY

(https://imgur.com/a/TLycDDY)
Title: Re: PCN from Britannia Parking | Failed to make valid payment | Flamborough North Landing Overflow Carpark
Post by: DWMB2 on June 19, 2024, 09:54:03 am
If you're concerned they have not received your appeal, there's nothing wrong with contacting them to say you appealed on [DATE], haven't heard back, and are asking for an update (attaching a copy of the appeal originally submitted).
Title: Re: PCN from Britannia Parking | Failed to make valid payment | Flamborough North Landing Overflow Carpark
Post by: phlegmborough on June 19, 2024, 08:59:53 am
Hi everybody,

It's only 2 days to the 28 day timeframe for them to reply, and nothing yet. Should I contact them for updates? Nothing in spam either!

Thanks a lot.
Title: Re: PCN from Britannia Parking | Failed to make valid payment | Flamborough North Landing Overflow Carpark
Post by: phlegmborough on June 09, 2024, 10:46:41 pm
Did you appeal online? If so, check your spam. They have 35 days to respond, but generally ought to have acknowledged your appeal by now.

Nothing in my spam, have been religiously checking!

Is this normal?

Thanks so much!
Title: Re: PCN from Britannia Parking | Failed to make valid payment | Flamborough North Landing Overflow Carpark
Post by: DWMB2 on June 09, 2024, 06:34:22 pm
Did you appeal online? If so, check your spam. They have 35 days to respond, but generally ought to have acknowledged your appeal by now.
Title: Re: PCN from Britannia Parking | Failed to make valid payment | Flamborough North Landing Overflow Carpark
Post by: phlegmborough on June 09, 2024, 06:08:10 pm
Edited slightly as follows:

Quote
This is an appeal by the registered keeper - No driver details will be given as the NtK does not fully comply with the strict requirements of PoFA 9(2)(e)(i). As there is no keeper liability, therefore, liability cannot flow from the driver to the keeper and so, is an automatic win at POPLA. In addition, the photos on the NtK are not time-stamped. In other words, they have been altered or cropped. That is a breach of the BPA CoP 21.5a. Please cancel the notice or issue a POPLA code at which point you will auto withdraw.

Unless anyone else suggests otherwise, send that off to them, remembering that you are responding only as the keeper.

THANK YOU! Wish me luck!!

Hi all,

It's been 2 weeks since I've sent the appeal to Brittania, and have yet to receive a reply by post or email! When should I be expecting it? Thanks so much!
Title: Re: PCN from Britannia Parking | Failed to make valid payment | Flamborough North Landing Overflow Carpark
Post by: b789 on May 24, 2024, 04:07:09 pm
What's the rush? You have 28 days from the 13th May to appeal. Wait a day for someone to respond here, just in case.
Title: Re: PCN from Britannia Parking | Failed to make valid payment | Flamborough North Landing Overflow Carpark
Post by: phlegmborough on May 24, 2024, 04:02:45 pm
Edited slightly as follows:

Quote
This is an appeal by the registered keeper - No driver details will be given as the NtK does not fully comply with the strict requirements of PoFA 9(2)(e)(i). As there is no keeper liability, therefore, liability cannot flow from the driver to the keeper and so, is an automatic win at POPLA. In addition, the photos on the NtK are not time-stamped. In other words, they have been altered or cropped. That is a breach of the BPA CoP 21.5a. Please cancel the notice or issue a POPLA code at which point you will auto withdraw.

Unless anyone else suggests otherwise, send that off to them, remembering that you are responding only as the keeper.

THANK YOU! Wish me luck!!
Title: Re: PCN from Britannia Parking | Failed to make valid payment | Flamborough North Landing Overflow Carpark
Post by: b789 on May 24, 2024, 01:09:25 pm
Edited slightly as follows:

Quote
This is an appeal by the registered keeper - No driver details will be given as the NtK does not fully comply with the strict requirements of PoFA 9(2)(e)(i). As there is no keeper liability, therefore, liability cannot flow from the driver to the keeper and so, is an automatic win at POPLA. In addition, the photos on the NtK are not time-stamped. In other words, they have been altered or cropped. That is a breach of the BPA CoP 21.5a. Please cancel the notice or issue a POPLA code at which point you will auto withdraw.

Unless anyone else suggests otherwise, send that off to them, remembering that you are responding only as the keeper.
Title: Re: PCN from Britannia Parking | Failed to make valid payment | Flamborough North Landing Overflow Carpark
Post by: phlegmborough on May 24, 2024, 09:54:35 am
Thanks everyone for their input!! Really appreciate it. To be honest, we were that close to paying the 60quid but decided to fight it. The fine is disproportionate to the actual "crime", if there was even any in the first place!!!

Here's our final appeal to Britannia - would this be fine to use? It's going to go to popla stage anyway I'm sure but just in case...

"
This is an appeal by the registered keeper - No driver details will be given as the NtK does not fully comply with the strict requirements of PoFA. As there is no keeper liability, therefore, liability cannot flow from the driver to the keeper and so, is an automatic win at POPLA. In addition, the photos on the NtK are not time-stamped. In other words, they have been altered or cropped. That is a breach of the BPA CoP 21.5a. Please cancel the notice or issue a POPLA code at which point you will auto withdraw.
"
Title: Re: PCN from Britannia Parking | Failed to make valid payment | Flamborough North Landing Overflow Carpark
Post by: DWMB2 on May 22, 2024, 04:47:29 pm
The choice is yours.
This - the purpose of this forum is to advise posters of their options. It's not our money on the line, so it would not be reasonable of us to make any choices for you.
Title: Re: PCN from Britannia Parking | Failed to make valid payment | Flamborough North Landing Overflow Carpark
Post by: b789 on May 22, 2024, 04:28:21 pm
You need to get into your understanding that the £40 "discount" is really a bribe to get the low-hanging fruit on the gullible tree to think they are getting a good deal and so pay the scammers without having to go though all the machinations required to appeal etc.

It is your money and it is up to you if you think you owe an unregulated private parking company anything at all. If you believe that they are acting in good faith and their "invoice" is fair and proportionate because you have heinously breached their terms and conditions, you are free to fund their extortion racket.

If you are not a fool and their money and believe that the PCN is unfair and are prepared to put up with a bit of a fight against intellectually malnourished ex-clampers and their Klingon roboclaim partners, then we will assist you all the way. There is never a 100% guarantee that you will win but there is a very good track record of the people who come here and over on MSE of winning these unfair PCNs. Between us, there is a huge amount of experience in dealing with these unfair PCNs.

If you do decide to fight an unfair PCN then you will gain a very useful life/leaning experience that will be useful to you and your friends and family in the future. Our education system doesn't teach anything about civil law and this is all about that.

These ex-clamper, unregulated private parking companies issue in excess of 30,000 PCNs a DAY! They rake in over £2 billion a year. They are still unregulated and make up their own rules. We are fighting these scammers and cowboys (Hansard). Unfortunately, the vast majority of victims either just pay up (bribed) or ignore and end up paying much more later when they get scared by their lack of knowledge on how to fight this. The majority of those we advise on who follow the advice and fight back end up not paying a penny.

The choice is yours. (And yes, I am biased)
Title: Re: PCN from Britannia Parking | Failed to make valid payment | Flamborough North Landing Overflow Carpark
Post by: DWMB2 on May 22, 2024, 02:29:26 pm
The discount is not available by the time you get to POPLA, so the full charge of £100 will be in play. Regarding it going up to 'even more' - if you decide to go all the way, they will inevitably add on debt collector fees of around £70, however, these can generally be contested in court successfully, even if you lose the overall case.

If it did go all the way to court (which is a long way down the line, and depends on (a) you losing at POPLA, (b) them deciding to take it that far, and (c) following through and turning up to a hearing), a loss generally costs in the region of £220-240.

If you win at any of these stages, the amount owed is of course £0.
Title: Re: PCN from Britannia Parking | Failed to make valid payment | Flamborough North Landing Overflow Carpark
Post by: phlegmborough on May 22, 2024, 02:24:37 pm
You have to appeal to Britannia first. You will only get an opportunity to appeal to POPLA if Britannia reject your appeal (which they will).

In your appeal to Britannia, irrespective of whether you paid or not, you should not be the liable person to pay. The liable person is the driver. Britannia have no idea who the driver is. You, as the keeper, are under no legal obligation to reveal the identity of the driver and Britannia are not allowed to simply presume or infer that because you are the keeper, you must also be the driver.

If the NtK had contained the all the required wording of PoFA and had been delivered within the required timescale, Britannia, because they don't know the identity of the driver, pass that liability to you, the keeper. However, they have failed to fully comply with the strict requirements of PoFA and so, cannot pass that liability on to you, the keeper.

Because they cannot rely on the provisions of PoFA to hold you, the keeper, liable, the burden of proof falls on Britannia to prove you were also the driver. The only way they can get that proof is if you tell them you were the driver. Remember, you are under no legal obligation to identify the driver, whether it was you or not.

So, appeal to Britannia with the following:

Quote
This is an appeal by the registered keeper - No driver details will be given. Please do NOT try the usual trick of asking for driver details in order to get around the fact your NtK does not fully comply with the strict requirements of PoFA. As there is no keeper liability, therefore, liability cannot flow from the driver to the keeper and so, is an automatic win at POPLA. Please cancel the notice or issue a POPLA code at which point you will auto withdraw.

No need to expend a lot of wasted effort at this stage as they will reject the appeal, no matter what. No need to inform them about which specific element of PoFA they have failed. They will just say that their NtK was PoFA compliant. It is at POPLA stage that your best chance of having this cancelled.

Thank you so much for taking the time with your replies!!! I will be appealing to Britannia with "This is an appeal by the registered keeper - No driver details will be given. Please do NOT try the usual trick of asking for driver details in order to get around the fact your NtK does not fully comply with the strict requirements of PoFA. As there is no keeper liability, therefore, liability cannot flow from the driver to the keeper and so, is an automatic win at POPLA. Please cancel the notice or issue a POPLA code at which point you will auto withdraw."

I have 2 more questions though. What happens if I don't win the Popla appeal? Will I still "enjoy" the discounted fine of 60quid, or would it go up to 100quid or even more?

Thanks so much again.
Title: Re: PCN from Britannia Parking | Failed to make valid payment | Flamborough North Landing Overflow Carpark
Post by: b789 on May 22, 2024, 12:04:46 pm
You have to appeal to Britannia first. You will only get an opportunity to appeal to POPLA if Britannia reject your appeal (which they will).

In your appeal to Britannia, irrespective of whether you paid or not, you should not be the liable person to pay. The liable person is the driver. Britannia have no idea who the driver is. You, as the keeper, are under no legal obligation to reveal the identity of the driver and Britannia are not allowed to simply presume or infer that because you are the keeper, you must also be the driver.

If the NtK had contained the all the required wording of PoFA and had been delivered within the required timescale, Britannia, because they don't know the identity of the driver, pass that liability to you, the keeper. However, they have failed to fully comply with the strict requirements of PoFA and so, cannot pass that liability on to you, the keeper.

Because they cannot rely on the provisions of PoFA to hold you, the keeper, liable, the burden of proof falls on Britannia to prove you were also the driver. The only way they can get that proof is if you tell them you were the driver. Remember, you are under no legal obligation to identify the driver, whether it was you or not.

So, appeal to Britannia with the following:

Quote
This is an appeal by the registered keeper - No driver details will be given. Please do NOT try the usual trick of asking for driver details in order to get around the fact your NtK does not fully comply with the strict requirements of PoFA. As there is no keeper liability, therefore, liability cannot flow from the driver to the keeper and so, is an automatic win at POPLA. Please cancel the notice or issue a POPLA code at which point you will auto withdraw.

No need to expend a lot of wasted effort at this stage as they will reject the appeal, no matter what. No need to inform them about which specific element of PoFA they have failed. They will just say that their NtK was PoFA compliant. It is at POPLA stage that your best chance of having this cancelled.
Title: Re: PCN from Britannia Parking | Failed to make valid payment | Flamborough North Landing Overflow Carpark
Post by: phlegmborough on May 22, 2024, 09:59:30 am
Thanks!! Should I be appealing now on the grounds of the cropped image, to which they would most certainly reject, and then it'll go to the popla stage?
Title: Re: PCN from Britannia Parking | Failed to make valid payment | Flamborough North Landing Overflow Carpark
Post by: b789 on May 22, 2024, 09:31:34 am
The full POPLA decision:

POPLA Case Number
2413353469

Decision
Successful

Assessor Name
Gayle Stanton

Assessor summary of operator case
The operator has issued the PCN because the vehicle was parked on the site and the pay and display permit did not cover the date and time of parking.

Assessor summary of your case
The appellant has raised the following grounds of appeal:
• The signage is inadequate
• The Notice to Keeper (NTK) does not meet PoFA requirements.
• The NTK does not accurately describe the circumstances so there is no keeper liability.
• The operator has not shown that the individual it is chasing is the driver.
• No landowner authority
• Grace period- Non compliance with the British Parking Association (BPA).
• No evidence of the period parked.
• Images of the vehicle contained within the NTK are not compliant with the BPA.
• The ANPR system is not reliable or accurate. The appellant has provided a document detailing their appeal and they have commented on the operator’s case file.

Assessor supporting rational for decision
In terms of POPLA appeals, the burden of proof rests with the operator to provide clear evidence of the contravention it alleges occurred, and consequently, that it issued the PCN correctly. I am allowing this appeal, with my reasoning outlined below:

The Images of the vehicle contained within the NTK are not compliant with the BPA. The appellant has stated in the comments that although the operator has provided full date stamped photographs in the case file, the images on the NTK are not compliant.

I acknowledge the appellant’s grounds of appeal and I have reviewed the evidence provided by the operator. The British Parking Association (BPA) Code of Practice Section 21.5a states: "When issuing a parking charge notice you may use photographs as evidence that a vehicle was parked in an unauthorised way. The photographs must refer to and confirm the incident which you claim was unauthorised. A date and time stamp should be included on the photograph. All photographs used for evidence should be clear and legible and must not be retouched or digitally altered."

I have reviewed the copy of the NTK provided by the operator and I am not satisfied that the images of the vehicle number plate on the NTK are compliant with Section 21.5a of the BPA Code of Practice. These images are not date stamped and after seeing the full images in the case file they appear to have been digitally altered or cropped to fit on the NTK. This is especially apparent on the colour image on the NTK. The image recorded of the vehicle entering the site is also not very clear.

I note that the appellant has raised further grounds for appeal in this case, however as I have allowed the appeal for this reason, I have not considered them. As such, I conclude that the PCN has been issued incorrectly. Accordingly, I must allow this appeal.
Title: Re: PCN from Britannia Parking | Failed to make valid payment | Flamborough North Landing Overflow Carpark
Post by: b789 on May 22, 2024, 09:20:12 am
It doesn't matter what is on file on the website. Any evidential photos on the NtK must not have been altered or cropped in order to fit.

This has already been seen to be a winning point at POPLA case 2413353469 where Assessor Stanton noted: "I have reviewed the copy of the NTK provided by the operator and I am not satisfied that the images of the vehicle number plate on the NTK are compliant with Section 21.5a of the BPA Code of Practice.
These images are not date stamped and after seeing the full images in the case file they appear to have been digitally altered or cropped to fit on the NTK. This is especially apparent on the colour image on the NTK."
Title: Re: PCN from Britannia Parking | Failed to make valid payment | Flamborough North Landing Overflow Carpark
Post by: phlegmborough on May 22, 2024, 09:10:13 am
One additional point that POPLA will need to be made aware of is that the photos on the NtK are not time stamped. In other words, they have been altered or cropped. That is a breach of the BPA CoP 21.5a.

Unfortunately on the website they have more images which has the timestamp on it
Title: Re: PCN from Britannia Parking | Failed to make valid payment | Flamborough North Landing Overflow Carpark
Post by: phlegmborough on May 22, 2024, 08:57:06 am
Hi, thanks for the reply! How do I check if it's land under statutory control?
Title: Re: PCN from Britannia Parking | Failed to make valid payment | Flamborough North Landing Overflow Carpark
Post by: DWMB2 on May 21, 2024, 10:43:35 pm
We can't tell you what to do, it's not our money that is at stake, and therefore not our decision to make. What we can do is advise on your options.

If you do decide to fight this - b789 has already outlined some appeal points. The signage one, as you indicate, is potentially slightly weakened by the fact that the driver did make payment (you can't reasonably claim the driver was unaware of the existence of terms and conditions if they paid), but you can still make the point that it is not up to scratch, as per the code of practice.

Also, is the location actually in the port or dock area? If so, it may be land under statutory control which means that they cannot use PoFA to transfer liability from the driver to the keeper.
Have you checked this point? You should do some digging to see if byelaws apply where the vehicle was parked.
Title: Re: PCN from Britannia Parking | Failed to make valid payment | Flamborough North Landing Overflow Carpark
Post by: phlegmborough on May 21, 2024, 09:49:02 pm
Hiya, hope someone would be able to help shed some light on this as I'll only have up to Monday to pay the discounted 60 quid.. thanks so much!
Title: Re: PCN from Britannia Parking | Failed to make valid payment | Flamborough North Landing Overflow Carpark
Post by: b789 on May 21, 2024, 02:07:51 pm
One additional point that POPLA will need to be made aware of is that the photos on the NtK are not time stamped. In other words, they have been altered or cropped. That is a breach of the BPA CoP 21.5a.
Title: Re: PCN from Britannia Parking | Failed to make valid payment | Flamborough North Landing Overflow Carpark
Post by: phlegmborough on May 21, 2024, 01:33:31 pm
Hi, this was at the North Landing overflow carpark at the top of the cliff, near North Landing Cafe. We did pay for the parking though, which means we did knowingly entered the contract? Just that we were 20 minutes late.
Title: Re: PCN from Britannia Parking | Failed to make valid payment | Flamborough North Landing Overflow Carpark
Post by: b789 on May 21, 2024, 01:19:55 pm
Looking at GSV photos of the location from 9 months ago, the driver could not have entered a contract as there are no obvious signs with the contractual terms visible in the car park.

Hopefully, this will be won at POPLA.
Title: Re: PCN from Britannia Parking | Failed to make valid payment | Flamborough North Landing Overflow Carpark
Post by: b789 on May 21, 2024, 01:11:29 pm
Whatever you do, don’t respond to Britannia until you’ve received more advice on here. Any response will be as the keeper, not the driver. They have no idea who was driving.

Whilst they claim to rely on PoFA to be able to hold the keeper liable, they have failed to fully comply with the strict requirements and have failed by omitting a requirement in 9(2)(e)(i).

Also, is the location actually in the port or dock area? If so, it may be land under statutory control which means that they cannot use PoFA to transfer liability from the driver to the keeper.
Title: PCN from Britannia Parking | Failed to make valid payment | Flamborough North Landing Overflow Carpark
Post by: phlegmborough on May 21, 2024, 11:18:08 am
Hi!

Received a PCN in the mail a few days ago...

Britannia accused us of failing to make a valid payment, but we did pay but was late to exit by about 20 minutes. We were visiting Flamborough and made the mistake of going on a boat tour that left late by about 30 minutes.

The carpark was very busy and we had a toddler with us, so it took us time to find locate the car, strap her in, exit etc.

How can I appeal this? Thank you!

[attachment deleted by admin]