Free Traffic Legal Advice
Live cases legal advice => Private parking tickets => Topic started by: toon147 on May 21, 2024, 08:50:15 am
-
They cannot ignore a complaint.
Do you have a source for this, because in my experience private companies can and will ignore complaints on a regular basis. Either by literally ignoring it, or by sending out a generic form letter along the lines of 'Thank you for your complaint. After review it has not been upheld. This is not an appealable decision'.
You've been quoted the "source" for this above. If they do not follow their ATA CoP and respond to a complaint then they run the risk of being suspended or worse which would mean that they no longer have KADOE contract with the DVLA and cannot simply click a button and receive keeper details which would severely affect their business model.
However, even if they have to treat the complaint as an appeal, they still have to respond. In my experience of dealing with these issues over many years, NCP are one of the few companies that regularly either don't use PoFA or mess it up, such as sending PoFA NtKs but outside of the required timeframe. In my experience, they have never tried to pursue a keeper who has highlighted their PoFA failure.
So, in this instance, if the OP has sent the complaint as advised, I believe that they are likely to cancel the PCN. We won't know until the OP tells us the outcome.
As for the minutiae being argued about how punctilious comms need to be, at least at this stage, is a bit academic.
-
But OP, you never know! And you've sent it anyway so you can only wait.
Certainly nothing to be lost by trying.
-
Sorry DWMB2, but I felt that giving precise info in a post which the OP would read as opposed to a link to a CoP and legislation whose complexity might make their head reel for all I know, would be better.
As regards Complaints and the BPA CoP, 23.23 is clear:
..When you receive a complaint which you consider..to be an appeal then ..you must treat it as an appeal for the purposes of applying the timescales[applicable to appeals] ......
https://www.britishparking.co.uk/write/Documents/AOS/NEW%20Redesigned%20Documents/Version91.2.2024Highlight.pdf
In short, unless the 'appeal' includes 'evidence of exceptional circumstances'..for the 'appeal' not being made within the normal timeframes, then the creditor may simply respond and state that they consider that it has not been made in time and therefore they are not under any obligation to consider further.
Unfortunately, I have become aware of this issue too late to appeal to POPLA is not 'exceptional circumstances' IMO.
But OP, you never know! And you've sent it anyway so you can only wait.
-
Section 23 of the BPA Code of Practice covers this.
Where a complaint is ostensibly an appeal against the validity of a parking charge, the operator must also treat the complaint as an appeal (again, section 23 of the Code of Practice refers).
I don't think anyone is necessarily expecting a positive outcome from the appeal/complaint - its purpose is mainly to demonstrate to the operator that the OP is well informed.
-
They cannot ignore a complaint.
Do you have a source for this, because in my experience private companies can and will ignore complaints on a regular basis. Either by literally ignoring it, or by sending out a generic form letter along the lines of 'Thank you for your complaint. After review it has not been upheld. This is not an appealable decision'.
-
Then for the OP's benefit why not say so.
I already did in reply #3. If you're going to criticise me for not doing something, please at least read the thread to make sure I've not done the thing you're accusing me of neglecting to do.
-
Then for the OP's benefit why not say so.
The OP doesn't know, they've just repeated words given to them. OP, a NTK must be given(served) no later than 14 days after the event. In your case it wasn't even sent until day 14!
And IMO, it's not a complaint, it's a late appeal masquerading as one! So it will likely be disregarded. And a 'complaint' doesn't provide access to IAS so the OP would still be in limbo facing a stream of threatening letters and their only comfort would be a post here which referred to 'deficiencies'.
OP, don't worry. You cannot be held liable because the law does not allow it - see para. 9 of this: https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2012/9/schedule/4/enacted
We know you can't, you now know you can't, the creditor knows you can't..but they can suffer from selective memory loss when it suits them!
-
What deficiencies?
Sent too late to be PoFA compliant, for starters.
-
They cannot ignore a complaint. The OP isn't appealing.
-
What deficiencies?
Anyway OP, they'll disregard because you're out of time. The ball is in the creditor's court.
By way of background while we wait, the NTK refers to a person by name, your first post refers to 'I have received', 'the vans get cleared' and 'this is the only letter we've received'.
All very suggestive of a company set-up, but this wouldn't explain the NTK being addressed to a person by name.
Without revealing the driver, can you give us some background pl?
-
I will update the thread when I get a response!
Keep an eye on your spam folder and remember to chase if you don't hear anything back. Don't assume silence = success.
-
Thank you - email and letter sent - I will update the thread when I get a response!
Thanks again for your advice!
-
Give it a go. NCP are normally quite up-front about their PoFA errors and will usually just cancel.
-
Maybe something like this?:
Subject: Formal Complaint Regarding Notice to Keeper (NtK) Reference [PCN Reference Number]
Dear Sir/Madam,
I am writing to lodge a formal complaint regarding the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) referenced above, which was issued to me as the registered keeper of the vehicle.
As the keeper of the vehicle in question, I am under no legal obligation to identify the driver at the time of the alleged parking infringement. Furthermore, I will not be providing such information.
After reviewing the Notice to Keeper (NtK) issued by NCP, it is clear that it fails to meet the strict requirements set out in the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (PoFA 2012). As you are aware, in order to hold the registered keeper liable for a parking charge, the NtK must comply with all conditions specified in Schedule 4 of PoFA 2012.
The deficiencies in your NtK mean that you cannot transfer liability for the alleged parking charge to me as the keeper. Therefore, I am not liable for this charge.
Unfortunately, I have become aware of this issue too late to appeal to POPLA. Nevertheless, given the clear non-compliance of your NtK with PoFA 2012, I request that you cancel the PCN immediately. Proceeding further with this charge would be unjust and a waste of time for both parties.
Please confirm in writing within 14 days of receipt of this letter that the PCN has been cancelled.
Thank you for your prompt attention to this matter.
Yours faithfully,
-
Do show us a draft before sending anything, to avoid inadvertently shooting yourself in the foot.
-
OP, you have to understand why @DWMB2 mentioned PoFA. PoFA was introduced because unregulated private parking companies don’t know the drivers identity. The driver is always the person liable for a parking charge if the terms have allegedly been breached.
Because they don’t know the identity of the driver, as long as they comply with the strict requirements of PoFA, they can transfer that driver liability to the keeper. They get the keeper details from the DVLA.
In the NtK you have shown us, NCP have not fully complied with the strict requirements of PoFA and so, cannot hold you liable as the keeper. The driver is still liable but they have no idea who that is… unless you tell them. You are under no legal obligation to tell an unregulated private parking company the identity of the driver.
Had you appealed at the time, saying “I am the keeper and I am under no obligation identify the driver and I will not be doing so. Your NtK does not comply with the strict requirements of PoFA 2012 and so you cannot hold me liable for the charge. I suggest you save us both a waste of time and either cancel the PCN or issue me with a POPLA code where we both know you will lose or withdraw.”
Whilst it is too late appeal because of your delay, as already suggested, a complaint (not an appeal)to them along the lines of the wording above, letting them know that you are not low-hanging fruit on the gullible tree and that they should stop wasting everybody’s time and just cancel the PCN, may have the desired effect. Their response will be interesting.
If they don’t cancel, then you’ll just have to weather the inevitable storm of final reminders and useless debt collector letters. If/when they decide to try and claim through the courts (doubtful) then come back and you will easily see them off with a robust defence that will be provided.
-
Thank you for your reply. I should definitely have acted sooner. In truth I totally forgot about it as I’ve had so much going on and then had a panic last night when I was reminded about it!
The car park was one of the enter reg, pay and display ones. The driver was returning from a long journey and parked there for just over an hour to get food and stretch their legs. They paid for 2 hours parking. We have the bank payment to demonstrate the payment but I don’t suppose that counts for much. Maybe they can track the date/time that payment was made for proof? Don’t suppose it’s within their interest to do that though
-
It's a shame you have taken so long to take action - what's done is done, but for future reference quick action is wise. This would have been a relatively straightforward appeal, but as you have missed NCP's arbitrary appeal deadline, they'll no longer accept any appeals, and you'll essentially have to wait and see if they decide to sue you in civil court.
They appear to have sent you the notice too late to hold you liable as the registered keeper under Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act (there's a link to it in my signature at the bottom). Although you've missed their appeal deadline there may be merit in writing to them to point this out. We can help with drafting this. (I note that they don't mention the Protection of Freedoms Act, but do claim that they will have the right to recover the charge from 'you' - part of me wonders if playing dumb here and asking on what basis they will do this will work here, to see if they'll make a rod for their own backs)
In the meantime, how does payment work at the car park in question? Do drivers enter their reg, for example?
-
This was delivered back in February.
I’ve not taken any action so far.
-
That notice says it was issued in January... When was it delivered? Have you taken any action so far?
-
Hi all,
I have received this notice to keeper from NCP alleging that the driver did not pay for parking.
The driver did pay for the parking at the correct amount so am baffled as to why I am receiving this.
Unfortunately the driver did not keep the ticket as the vans get cleared out regularly.
This is the only letter we’ve received regarding this but I figured it’s worth posting this to get knowledge from people that know far more about this stuff than I do. Should I reply?
Thank you for your help!
[attachment deleted by admin]