Free Traffic Legal Advice

Live cases legal advice => Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) => Topic started by: kdot13 on July 14, 2023, 12:57:28 am

Title: Re: 50R Performing a prohibited turn - no right turn (camera enforcement)
Post by: mrmustard on October 07, 2023, 06:15:52 pm
Either I or cp8759 will happily represent you free of charge at the tribunal
Title: Re: 50R Performing a prohibited turn - no right turn (camera enforcement)
Post by: Pastmybest on October 07, 2023, 12:02:50 pm
No don't pay there are reasons to ask the tribunal to cancel this PCN The date for making reps quoted on the PCN is wrong as is the contravention.it should be failing to drive in the direction of an arrow on a blue sign.

The first point has won many many times, the has won but not so much second
Title: Re: 50R Performing a prohibited turn - no right turn (camera enforcement)
Post by: kdot13 on October 07, 2023, 11:38:32 am
Hi,

Thanks for your message

I believe she has offered the discount as it says if I pay within 21 days it is £65, which is how much it was on the original letter.

I will pay up as this was my mistake for not seeing the sign even though I still think there is no reason for it to be a no right turn other than catching out motorists.

Thanks all
Title: Re: 50R Performing a prohibited turn - no right turn (camera enforcement)
Post by: Incandescent on October 07, 2023, 09:07:32 am
The 56 days only applies to the Traffic Management Act 2004, but not the LLA & TfL Act 2003 under which your PCN was issued.

They haven't re-offered the discount, so it is a no-brainer to take them to London Tribunals as the penalty is the same and there are no additional costs. For delays where no defined in law, the adjudicators normally have 3 months before they will consider a delay in response.
Title: Re: 50R Performing a prohibited turn - no right turn (camera enforcement)
Post by: kdot13 on October 07, 2023, 06:31:49 am
Hi,

I finally received an update on this PCN but I believe they've sent it too late?

I made my challenge on 19th July and their email states "Please be advised that the Council have up to 56 days to reply to a formal challenge submitted upon receipt of a Notice to Owner.".

I received the rejection to the challenge on the 6th October.

I've attached the challenge email confirmation and you can find the scan of the rejection letter here: https://1drv.ms/b/s!ApZNM_q_5X8pzi7J4Zc4JoKtGmAB

Since they have replied well after 56 days does that void the PCN?

Thanks in advance

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: 50R Performing a prohibited turn - no right turn (camera enforcement)
Post by: cp8759 on August 07, 2023, 03:49:05 pm
The Wandsworth (Prescribed Routes) (No.5) Traffic Order 1993 (https://drive.google.com/uc?id=1xadD_h4ghi3NUtLwgAtCiN7RG10qDtID&export=inline).
Title: Re: 50R Performing a prohibited turn - no right turn (camera enforcement)
Post by: kdot13 on July 19, 2023, 12:42:53 am
Hi cp8759,

Thank you for your response.

I've challenged the PCN using your draft and will update the thread once a response is received.

Below is the confirmation email after submitting the appeal online.

Quote
Thank you for your submission.

All correspondence received about a Penalty Charge Notice (PCN) is dealt with in chronological order. Depending on the stage of the PCN, your enquiry will be now be placed on hold and passed to the appropriate parking team and an officer will reply to you as soon as possible. Please be advised that the Council have up to 56 days to reply to a formal challenge submitted upon receipt of a Notice to Owner.

For details of the parking appeals process please refer to www.wandsworth.gov.uk/parking. You can also find further useful information at https://www.londoncouncils.gov.uk/services/parking-services/parking-and-traffic/parking-advice-members-public/london-tribunals. Please do not reply to this acknowledgement. If you have any further questions please call our Parking Helpline on (020) 8871 8871 Mon-Fri 9am to 5pm. If your enquiry is received within the discounted period that is stated on the PCN, then please be assured that we will re-offer you the opportunity to pay the Notice at the 50% reduced rate in the event that the charge is upheld.

Thanks
Title: Re: 50R Performing a prohibited turn - no right turn (camera enforcement)
Post by: cp8759 on July 14, 2023, 12:38:54 pm
Video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BLSDXPkbCs0

As long as your representations are received by the council by midnight on 24 July, the discount will be re-offered, so you might as well have a go, here's a draft representation:

Dear London Borough of Wandsworth,

I challenge liability for PCN WA88495191 on the basis of a collateral challenge. The notice is ambiguous as to what 28 day period is available to make representations, the information on page one indicates this is the period of 28 days starting with the date of the notice, while the information on page 2 indicates it is 28 days starting with the date of service of the notice.

There are severe consequences for failing to comply with these deadlines, which must therefore be conveyed clearly and without ambiguity. In light of this, the penalty charge must be cancelled.

Yours faithfully,

In the meantime I'll get hold of the traffic order. The council will certainly reject but they might also make further mistakes in the Notice of Rejection, which might open other avenues.
Title: 50R Performing a prohibited turn - no right turn (camera enforcement)
Post by: kdot13 on July 14, 2023, 12:57:28 am
Hi all.

PCN: WA88495191
VRN: K42JOT

I received the following PCN for turning right in Wandsworth, Putney Bridge Road.

GSV 90 Oakhill Rd
https://maps.app.goo.gl/6ZWEwSvmGVUVyUCT9

PCN letter: https://1drv.ms/b/s!ApZNM_q_5X8pzTQGUs75fNfb60fg

I didn't see the signs however I can see they are present on street view. I was simply following Google Maps directions and I was dropping my colleagues home after a long 12 hour day so I was likely distracted chatting.

I don't even understand why turning right is prohibited here, where is the danger?

Are there any grounds to have this cancelled or should I just pay the discounted rate now?

Thanks.