Outcome (https://drive.google.com/file/d/1HbqdlqIK5bHDx2iYV34PfOyx3LdqD_rS/view).
Thanks @cp8759.That's correct.
Does it mean that if I don't win the appeal, I will pay £70 (and nothing extra)?
@Admiration well if the discount is not on offer then you might as well appeal, as you can't end up any worse off and you might win or the council might not contest the appeal.
I'll drop you a PM in case you'd like to be represented.
Thanks @cp8759. Are you suggesting that there are slim chances of the pcn getting cancelled? or I got it wrong?I think you only get a fair chance at the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, but you can't appeal to the tribunal until you get a formal Notice of Rejection from the council.
Thanks @cp8759. Are you suggesting that there are slim chances of the pcn getting cancelled? or I got it wrong?I think you only get a fair chance at the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, but you can't appeal to the tribunal until you get a formal Notice of Rejection from the council.
Thanks @cp8759. Are you suggesting that there are slim chances of the pcn getting cancelled? or I got it wrong?I think you only get a fair chance at the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, but you can't appeal to the tribunal until you get a formal Notice of Rejection from the council.
@Admiration I don't have anything to add to your proposed draft. In all honesty, I don't think there is anything you could possibly say that would actually persuade the council to cancel the PCN, but if you get lucky they might mess up the response.
Looks fine, I'd go with it.
@Admiration I think the text you've put in reply 22 above is fine, if nobody suggests anything additional within the next couple of days I suggest you submit it.
Why does the NTO not use the correct contravention description?
To elaborate:
The PCN and NTO both give the following:
'Parked in a loading place during restricted hours without loading'
The mandated form is:
'Parked in a loading place or bay during restricted hours without loading.'
The authority are obligated to use the mandated version(The 2022 Charges Regulations and Annex B to the Secretary of State's Statutory Guidance refer). The authority must state why they have unilaterally chosen to depart from these grounds which prima facie is a procedural impropriety.
@Admiration I think the text you've put in reply 22 above is fine, if nobody suggests anything additional within the next couple of days I suggest you submit it.
Thank you @cp8759.
That day, I went to a visa office on that street to submit some important documents that were required by the visa office. I had an appointment which I wanted to make in time. Before I parked, a driving instructors’ car was parked there. I waited for him to leave, as he indicated that he was leaving, before I parked my car there, believing it was a normal parking space similar to the other marked areas. I ensured that I skipped the yellow marked area for disabled parking and loading bay (I thought they were the same).
This was my 2nd visit only on that street and on first visit, I parked, paid for ticket, displayed it and picked my car after my appointment was finished. This time I did exactly the same. I did not even give it a second thought, as I checked the markings and a car was parked already there, and similar looking signs.
The signage and road markings were not clear, and I reasonably believed I was parking in a permitted area due to the similarity in the markings. It was an honest mistake by interpreting the signs and markings incorrectly.
I purchased and displayed a valid parking ticket for the entire duration of the stay, which indicate my intention to comply with parking regulations. I observed another vehicle parked in the same spot and assumed it was a legal parking space, and this contributed to my belief that it was permissible to park there (same as on the other side of the road, where I parked two weeks ago.
The lack of a clear distinction between the loading bay and the pay-and-display parking area also contributed to my confusion. If the council can improve the clarity of the signage and markings, this will prevent future misunderstandings for all the drivers.
I don’t what else to say, as I believed at the time of parking, that I was being a responsible citizen, adhering to the rules of the council, and paid correct parking charges, and displayed my ticket, as I always do.
I hope they understand my genuinely honest mistake and cancel this PCN.
Kind Regards
@Admiration the notice to owner must, by law, demand the full penalty. However if you make a representation before midnight on 24 July, then if a notice of rejection is issued the discount should be reoffered for a further 14 days.
I don't have anything to add to the previous draft but for the sake of completeness, do you have any mitigating circumstances worth raising, especially anything unconnected to the contravention itself?
@Admiration the notice to owner must, by law, demand the full penalty. However if you make a representation before midnight on 24 July, then if a notice of rejection is issued the discount should be reoffered for a further 14 days.
I don't have anything to add to the previous draft but for the sake of completeness, do you have any mitigating circumstances worth raising, especially anything unconnected to the contravention itself?
Thank you @Incandescent.Their portal is best, because you get a response on-line which you must keep carefully, (print it out as well). Rejections to formal representations against a Notice to Owner must be in the form of a letter in the post.
I am willing to respond. I need guidance on how I do it, and what are things I need to put in my appeal to get it right please.
Also, wanted to check if the communication from here onwards from council will be through email or a portal or they will send letters again, if you know, please?
Many ThanksYou must respond to the Notice to Owner, because if you don't you lose all chance of appealing to the adjudicators.
The discount is normally only ever offered on the PCN, but many councils do re-offer it when refusing reps against a Notice to Owner. Whether Bradford do you'll only find out when you submit representations. If you do, make sure you submit them within 14 days like a PCN. Their refusal letter is tosh; there is no legal requirement for loading at the roadside to be continuous. Sone unloading requires several trips to and from the vehicle, which drivers usually lock to prevent theft.
If cp8759 is going to prepare some text for you, I'll stand aside at this point.
Thank you @Incandescent.Their portal is best, because you get a response on-line which you must keep carefully, (print it out as well). Rejections to formal representations against a Notice to Owner must be in the form of a letter in the post.
I am willing to respond. I need guidance on how I do it, and what are things I need to put in my appeal to get it right please.
Also, wanted to check if the communication from here onwards from council will be through email or a portal or they will send letters again, if you know, please?
Many ThanksYou must respond to the Notice to Owner, because if you don't you lose all chance of appealing to the adjudicators.
The discount is normally only ever offered on the PCN, but many councils do re-offer it when refusing reps against a Notice to Owner. Whether Bradford do you'll only find out when you submit representations. If you do, make sure you submit them within 14 days like a PCN. Their refusal letter is tosh; there is no legal requirement for loading at the roadside to be continuous. Sone unloading requires several trips to and from the vehicle, which drivers usually lock to prevent theft.
Hi @cp8759, I just received the NTO.
Please find it here:
https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/kq8r7s469nh3pyf0ilj85/20240712_121955.jpg?rlkey=smw6xo3fe051ywvlir7fwd0xo&st=wisfeldz&dl=0
and
https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/39zjpwdnrptbhfwnrx3hq/20240712_122542.jpg?rlkey=igi35man3cad8g61v36ftcd24&st=hwgwu7dy&dl=0
All documents are saved here - https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fo/kqgjotwqb5bemieec41l7/AHkkWYJ3_oaaWA1rndELoek?rlkey=6fkhc4v20d3am1441pn0fcws6&st=bhfenu70&dl=0
My queries now - why they have not offered 50% discount this time?
and, please advise what should I do from here now?
as always, grateful for all your help and guidance on this.@Admiration I would suggest waiting for the notice to owner. As long as you challenge it within 14 days of the date of issue the discount should be reoffered anyway, so there is limited risk in carrying on.https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fo/kqgjotwqb5bemieec41l7/AHkkWYJ3_oaaWA1rndELoek?rlkey=6fkhc4v20d3am1441pn0fcws6&st=bhfenu70&dl=0
You must respond to the Notice to Owner, because if you don't you lose all chance of appealing to the adjudicators.
The discount is normally only ever offered on the PCN, but many councils do re-offer it when refusing reps against a Notice to Owner. Whether Bradford do you'll only find out when you submit representations. If you do, make sure you submit them within 14 days like a PCN. Their refusal letter is tosh; there is no legal requirement for loading at the roadside to be continuous. Sone unloading requires several trips to and from the vehicle, which drivers usually lock to prevent theft.
The NTO appears to be missing this ground of appeal.
(i)the enforcement notice should not have been served because—
(i)the penalty charge has already been paid in full, or
(ii)the penalty charge has been paid, reduced by the amount of any discount set in accordance with Schedule 9 to the TMA 2004, by the applicable date as specified in paragraph 1(3) of Schedule 3 to the 2022 General Regulations.
@Admiration I would suggest waiting for the notice to owner. As long as you challenge it within 14 days of the date of issue the discount should be reoffered anyway, so there is limited risk in carrying on.https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fo/kqgjotwqb5bemieec41l7/AHkkWYJ3_oaaWA1rndELoek?rlkey=6fkhc4v20d3am1441pn0fcws6&st=bhfenu70&dl=0
@Admiration I would suggest waiting for the notice to owner. As long as you challenge it within 14 days of the date of issue the discount should be reoffered anyway, so there is limited risk in carrying on.
Map tile BO56 (https://drive.google.com/file/d/17kXK9RL4UUa5RK7cKurtbkUeEuTc5w_6/view) as it was in force on 17 May 2024
@Admiration firstly don't worry too much about the discount, even if your representation is rejected. In our experience if you receive the notice to owner and challenge it again within 14 days, the discount will be reoffered again, so as a minimum you want to take this as far as formal representations against the notice to owner.
It is essential we get the updated map tile to properly weigh up your chances at the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, so for now we mostly need to buy time. For that limited purpose something like this will do:Dear City of Bradford Metropolitan District Council,
I had parked in a pay and display bay previously at this location; on this occasion there was a driving instructor's car parked in the bay to my left who departed, so I parked my car in that space believing it to be a normal parking bay. Before parking I saw disabled only sign, with a broad yellow line, so I made sure not to park in that area. I did not think much as it was my appointment time so I bought a ticket from the machine, displayed it on my windscreen, and went for my appointment. I attach proof of payment for your records.
At the time of the alleged contravention I was visiting a visa office on North Parade.
Upon receiving the penalty charge I was confused and I had to check the sign several times before I realised the difference to the signs situated on the opposite side of the carriageway.
I will definitely be far more careful in the future but I hope you will be able to show some leniency for a genuine mistake.
Yours faithfully,
Send this online and keep a screenshot of the confirmation page.
OK, so you were parked here: -
https://maps.app.goo.gl/3HyWHPYjYsTPzyxH8
and if you zoom and look at the parking restrictions sign for the bay you'll see it is for Loading Only between 8 am and 6 pm. Your PCN is timed at 10.14 so well within the Loading Only period. So it looks as if the PCN has been correctly issued. It is essential when parking in a marked bay that you look for the bay restrictions sign, and make sure you understand what the restrictions are for that bay. For this bay, it is Loading Only for part of the day, then paid parking for any vehicle, then free-to-park from midnight to 8 am.
As far as I can see the PCN looks OK
Don't rush to pay straightaway, but wait a bit to see if anybody has spotted something I haven't.
@Admiration well the signage looks like a completely unlawful mish-mash to me, but we need to carry out some basic checks. Please read the guidance here (https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/read-this-first-before-posting-your-case!-this-section-is-for-council-tfl-dartme/) and re-post the PCN without any redactions.
The traffic order is the City of Bradford Metropolitan District Council (Waiting, Loading and Parking) (Consolidation) Order 2015 (https://drive.google.com/file/d/1TWjJXk2RCbE5EqTf3eovs9pPvelR0O6Y/view) and the map tile is BO56 (https://drive.google.com/file/d/13lFDLCTnbiJOwmHaQZ2WddRisz9UUWN9/view), but obviously the one we have is now out of date so I've requested the latest one.