Free Traffic Legal Advice

Live cases legal advice => Private parking tickets => Topic started by: thingie2 on May 17, 2024, 02:16:55 pm

Title: Re: ParkingEye PCN for exceeding free stay period, but not paying for remainder @ Rugby Asda
Post by: thingie2 on October 29, 2024, 02:26:05 pm
Thanks, I'll just wait it out for now & see what (if anything) arrives.
Title: Re: ParkingEye PCN for exceeding free stay period, but not paying for remainder @ Rugby Asda
Post by: b789 on October 28, 2024, 04:10:17 pm
Typical moronic POPLA assessment. Did not even consider the lack of "invitation" in the NtK.

Never mind. The POPLA decision has absolutely no bearing on anything going forward and you are not bound by it.

You do nothing except wait for a Letter of Claim (LoC), if one is ever sent. As soon as you move or have an exact date for the move, you send the Data Rectification Notice to PE. You can send a copy to the DPO at DCBL, for what it's worth.

We don't need to know about any debt collector letters you get, They can be safely ignored.
Title: Re: ParkingEye PCN for exceeding free stay period, but not paying for remainder @ Rugby Asda
Post by: thingie2 on October 28, 2024, 03:56:31 pm
I refer you to the answer I just gave you in this thread regarding change of address:

Re: Alliance Parking PCN - Padstow Harbour South Quay car park (https://www.ftla.uk/private-parking-tickets/alliance-parking-pcn-padstow-harbour-south-quay-car-park/msg42696/#msg42696)

You need to see the POPLA assessors reasoning for refusing the appeal. You can log into the POPLA website and see the adjudication. Please post it here but do us all al favour and add in a few paragraph breaks to make it more readable.

I wasn't even aware it was possible to see the reason for rejection, as nothing in the notifications from them indicated I could do so... But here it is:

Quote
The driver of the vehicle has not been identified to POPLA or the operator. Therefore, the operator is pursuing the registered keeper for the PCN. For an operator to transfer liability of unpaid parking charges from the driver of the vehicle to the registered keeper of the vehicle, the regulations laid out in the Protection of Freedoms Act (PoFA) 2012 must be adhered to. Having viewed the notice to keeper issued to the appellant I am satisfied that the operator has complied with the provisions laid out in Schedule 4 paragraph 9 of PoFA 2012, and that liability of the parking charge was successfully transferred to the keeper at the time of the event.
When assessing an appeal POPLA considers if the operator has issued the PCN correctly and if the driver has complied with the terms and conditions for the use of the car park. The signs make it clear that there is a 2 hour free stay and any time up to 3 hours is £2.00 and if these terms and conditions are not met a charge of £70 will be issued. The images of the vehicle captured upon entry and exit confirm the time the vehicle was on this land 2 hours and 40 minutes. The operator has evidenced from its system report that there was no payment registered for this vehicle to park on this land on the date of the event. I acknowledge the appellant’s comments as I understand that the crux of their appeal is that the notice to keeper has not met PoFA 2012 requirements. As stated at the start I am satisfied PoFA 2012 has been met, however, will explain my reasons for this finding this below.
They say specifically Schedule 4, paragraph 9 (2) (e) (i) where it states the operator must invite the keeper to pay. They say there is no invitation and only the invitation to the driver to pay. It states in this paragraph: “9 (2) : The notice must— (e)state that the creditor does not know both the name of the driver and a current address for service for the driver and invite the keeper— (i)to pay the unpaid parking charges; or (ii)if the keeper was not the driver of the vehicle, to notify the creditor of the name of the driver and a current address for service for the driver and to pass the notice on to the driver;” The notice states: you are warned that if, after 29 days from the date given (which is presumed to be the second working day after the date issued) the parking charge has not been paid in full and we do not know the name and current address of the driver, we have the right to recover any unpaid part of the parking charge from you.” I am satisfied that this wording complies as it is advising the registered keeper should they fail to identify the driver that the operator will pursue them as the registered keeper.
I note they say that the notice does not meet section 2.1, 2.2 and 2.3, 2.4 of the BPA Code of Practice as PoFA 2012 has not been met. The BPA monitors how operators treat motorists and has its own Code of Practice setting out the criteria operators must meet. These sections of the Code of Practice the appellant is referring to are related to the operator’s membership with the BPA and not POPLA within POPLA’s remit, with as the BPA itself sets out this criterion for operators to meet. If the appellant believes the operator has not met these requirements, I recommend they discuss this with the BPA directly.
I note they mention section 22.6 and 24.3 not being met. Section 22.6 discusses the requirement of following PoFA 2012 requirements if a notice to driver was not issued in the direst instance. As stated above I am satisfied the operator met the requirements. The operator has issued the PCN within the relevant timescales as such I am satisfied it has complied. The date of the event was 8 May 2024 and the PCN was issued to the appellant as the keeper on 11 May 2024, therefore within the 14 day relevant period which begun on 9 May 2024. The notice to keeper does contain this wording yet with ‘if after 29 days’ however, as such I am satisfied as stated that PoFA 2012 requirements were met as amount this time period includes the ‘28 days beginning with the day after that on which the notice was given’. If the appellant is unhappy they did not receive a response from the operator to each point they raised, they would need to take this up separately with the operator and can do so via the following link: https://www.parkingeye.co.uk/motorist/complaints/,
I note they challenge the operator’s rights to enforce parking on this land. They say there is no evidence of landowner authority. They put the operator to strict proof of providing an unredacted evidence of a contract with the landowner and this must meet the BPA Code of Practice section 7 requirements. The contract must set out any genuine exemptions or customer/resident exemptions. They say witness statements are not of sound evidence of the above as they are often pre-signed and generic. Section 7.1 of the BPA Code of Practice outlines that parking operators must have written authorisation from the landowner or their agent, to manage the land in question. This can come in the form of a witness statement under Section 23.16B of the BPA Code of Practice or a full contract. Section 7.3 lists the contract requirements. The operator has provided a contract with the landowner ASDA Stores Limited. This document confirms that the operator has permission granted by the landowner to enforce and the land it relates to which ASDA Rugby car park. The contract began on 1 May 2016 and on the balance of probabilities the operator is still enforcing and therefore I am satisfied that authority is still in place. The operator would not grant permission for signs to be in place on its land if this was not the case. I do understand there may be differing tariffs on this agreement, however I do not find this has any bearing on the ability for them to comply with the terms and tariffs displayed on the signs on the date. In this case it is clear that the vehicle was parked without paying the relevant tariff to cover their stay after the 2-hour free stay period had been exceeded. There were 40 minutes unpaid and a payment of £2.00 would have been required to cover this time. Ultimately, POPLA’s role is to assess if the operator has issued the PCN in accordance with the conditions of the car park. As the vehicle parked without a valid payment, I am satisfied that the operator has issued the PCN correctly, and accordingly the appeal is refused.
Title: Re: ParkingEye PCN for exceeding free stay period, but not paying for remainder @ Rugby Asda
Post by: b789 on October 28, 2024, 02:31:07 pm
I refer you to the answer I just gave you in this thread regarding change of address:

Re: Alliance Parking PCN - Padstow Harbour South Quay car park (https://www.ftla.uk/private-parking-tickets/alliance-parking-pcn-padstow-harbour-south-quay-car-park/msg42696/#msg42696)

You need to see the POPLA assessors reasoning for refusing the appeal. You can log into the POPLA website and see the adjudication. Please post it here but do us all al favour and add in a few paragraph breaks to make it more readable.
Title: Re: ParkingEye PCN for exceeding free stay period, but not paying for remainder @ Rugby Asda
Post by: thingie2 on October 28, 2024, 02:16:41 pm
This not the appeal but the counter to the operators response. Also, yes, it may be unsuccessful. SO what? You move on to the next stage.

Quote
IMO, the simple fact that the PCN has been sent to you with detailed payment information-front and centre- including a discount would be taken by many to be an invitation to pay.

PCNs do not have a single mandated form of words but must convey the meaning required.

Having discussed the point about the "invitation" to the keeper with a district judge, the lack of an actual "invitation" to the keeper does indeed invalidate the NtK. In the judges own words regarding PoFA 9(2)(e)... "(e) - not compliant. Not even close".

An "Invitation to Pay"... The notice must explicitly invite the keeper to pay the unpaid parking charges. The PE NtK does not and if you believe that the wording "conveys" the "invitation" then, thankfully, you are not a judge. However, your opinion is noted. 

Whilst the POPLA assessor may not agree, a judge certainly is likely to if you can show it.

Whatever happens with your POPLA appeal, should it be unsuccessful, then so be it. It makes no difference to any future action. Don't be put off by the seemingly negativity of the above poster.

The main thing is to point out at this stage, the omissions that PE have made in their operator response.

The ultimate dispute resolution service is the small claims track in the county court.

Thanks for all your help in this so far...

I've recieved an email from PE, saying the POPLA appeal was unsucessful (not sure why it's not POPLA telling me this, but that's neither here, nor there) & providing me a link to pay.

What's my best next steps? (It's unlikely to actually make a difference, but in case it does, we'll be moving in the next few weeks).
Title: Re: ParkingEye PCN for exceeding free stay period, but not paying for remainder @ Rugby Asda
Post by: H C Andersen on August 12, 2024, 04:05:35 pm
The last judge I spoke to would not be drawn on such narrow points of law - unrelated to parking- because this is not their task, they listen to argument from opposing sides and adjudicate.

OP, I consider myself to be a realist. The blunderbus approach has worked and it hasn't. I would say more no than yes. You don't create the assessor's framework, POPLA does. The fact that PE did not respond to your voluminous appeal points isn't their task: they have to convince the assessor that the parking charge is owing and that they should dismiss your appeal, in effect that POPLA accept that the creditor has followed correct and relevant procedure which bears upon your issue.

OP, you are where you are. But 'the creditor hasn't complied with PoFA' without any substantive argument must fail IMO because it's not the assessor's task to find out what you mean, it's yours to identify clearly.

Follow the advice you're given because you're too far down the line to change. But be realistic about your chances. I hope to read that you've succeeded.



Title: Re: ParkingEye PCN for exceeding free stay period, but not paying for remainder @ Rugby Asda
Post by: b789 on August 12, 2024, 02:53:32 pm
This not the appeal but the counter to the operators response. Also, yes, it may be unsuccessful. SO what? You move on to the next stage.

Quote
IMO, the simple fact that the PCN has been sent to you with detailed payment information-front and centre- including a discount would be taken by many to be an invitation to pay.

PCNs do not have a single mandated form of words but must convey the meaning required.

Having discussed the point about the "invitation" to the keeper with a district judge, the lack of an actual "invitation" to the keeper does indeed invalidate the NtK. In the judges own words regarding PoFA 9(2)(e)... "(e) - not compliant. Not even close".

An "Invitation to Pay"... The notice must explicitly invite the keeper to pay the unpaid parking charges. The PE NtK does not and if you believe that the wording "conveys" the "invitation" then, thankfully, you are not a judge. However, your opinion is noted. 

Whilst the POPLA assessor may not agree, a judge certainly is likely to if you can show it.

Whatever happens with your POPLA appeal, should it be unsuccessful, then so be it. It makes no difference to any future action. Don't be put off by the seemingly negativity of the above poster.

The main thing is to point out at this stage, the omissions that PE have made in their operator response.

The ultimate dispute resolution service is the small claims track in the county court.
Title: Re: ParkingEye PCN for exceeding free stay period, but not paying for remainder @ Rugby Asda
Post by: thingie2 on August 12, 2024, 02:42:42 pm
OP, if this is your first time at POPLA then you should know that assessors have seen everything you've written before. As far as I can see nothing in your shotgun list of points addresses the key issue of whether a parking charge is owing.

I think PE are one of the largest, if not the largest, private parking company. They have not issued a bespoke PCN to you, it's their standard.

And just as you've got a standard PCN, so POPLA assessors have pooh-poohed your standard defence hundreds of times.

IMO, if you have stand-out points then make them, don't obfuscate them. I didn't get any further than your first points one of which was simply a repeat of what you've already said and one of which was simply inapplicable as regards your sitution.

In short: weight of evidence should not be taken literally; assessors have heard it all before - and in truth some have found in favour of appellants; manage your expectations.

And on the point of 'it doesn't really matter', well it will to you if you lose because courts aren't interested in the minutiae of the Code of Practice, they're concerned with legal issues. And PE do take keepers to court.

If all you think you have is failure to 'invite', then bring it front and centre. IMO the missing word 'invite'(or synonym) is not a silver bullet. IMO, the simple fact that the PCN has been sent to you with detailed payment information-front and centre- including a discount would be taken by many to be an invitation to pay.

PCNs do not have a single mandated form of words but must convey the meaning required.

Do you have any specific advice to assist in the appeal, or are you just trying to say that it might be unsuccessful?
Title: Re: ParkingEye PCN for exceeding free stay period, but not paying for remainder @ Rugby Asda
Post by: H C Andersen on August 12, 2024, 02:28:23 pm
OP, if this is your first time at POPLA then you should know that assessors have seen everything you've written before. As far as I can see nothing in your shotgun list of points addresses the key issue of whether a parking charge is owing.

I think PE are one of the largest, if not the largest, private parking company. They have not issued a bespoke PCN to you, it's their standard.

And just as you've got a standard PCN, so POPLA assessors have pooh-poohed your standard defence hundreds of times.

IMO, if you have stand-out points then make them, don't obfuscate them. I didn't get any further than your first points one of which was simply a repeat of what you've already said and one of which was simply inapplicable as regards your sitution.

In short: weight of evidence should not be taken literally; assessors have heard it all before - and in truth some have found in favour of appellants; manage your expectations.

And on the point of 'it doesn't really matter', well it will to you if you lose because courts aren't interested in the minutiae of the Code of Practice, they're concerned with legal issues. And PE do take keepers to court.

If all you think you have is failure to 'invite', then bring it front and centre. IMO the missing word 'invite'(or synonym) is not a silver bullet. IMO, the simple fact that the PCN has been sent to you with detailed payment information-front and centre- including a discount would be taken by many to be an invitation to pay.

PCNs do not have a single mandated form of words but must convey the meaning required.
Title: Re: ParkingEye PCN for exceeding free stay period, but not paying for remainder @ Rugby Asda
Post by: b789 on August 12, 2024, 02:14:09 pm
In which case add apostrophes or asterisks around the words and capitalise them.
Title: Re: ParkingEye PCN for exceeding free stay period, but not paying for remainder @ Rugby Asda
Post by: thingie2 on August 12, 2024, 02:08:23 pm
I'll add the extra for the first point - The form does not support formatting, so I can't Bold any text etc.

For the 2nd point, that is the main "point 2", which is expanded per item in 2.1, 2.2 etc etc, which does expand on the details of the CoP
Title: Re: ParkingEye PCN for exceeding free stay period, but not paying for remainder @ Rugby Asda
Post by: b789 on August 12, 2024, 02:05:11 pm
Why are you not emphasising the point about the word "INVITATION"? You want to make your point so use emphasis otherwise it is lost.

Quote
1.   ParkingEye have not attempted to counter point 1 from my appeal (The Notice to Keeper (attached copy for reference) does not comply with the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012. Specifically, in PoFA 2012, Schedule 4, item 9(2)(e)(i), the NtK MUST "state that the creditor does not know both the name of the driver and a current address for service for the driver and INVITE the keeper to pay the unpaid parking charges".
The NtK does not fulfil the requirements of 9(2)(e)(i) as there is no "INVITATION" (or synonym thereof) to pay the unpaid parking charges as the registered keeper. [Add this:]Partial or even substantial compliance is not sufficient.

What about this?:

Quote
2.   ParkingEye have not attempted to counter point 2 from my appeal (The NtK does not comply with the British Parking Association Code of Practice, e.g. items 2.4, 21.2, 21.13, 22.6 & 24.3.), therefore it can be considered accepted by ParkingEye that they do not comply with the British Parking Association CoP & therefore the appeal should be upheld.

Again, you are referencing a whole load of CoP items without any context except that you expect the assessor to go back through your initial submission and search out what each point is. Make the assessors job easy.
Title: Re: ParkingEye PCN for exceeding free stay period, but not paying for remainder @ Rugby Asda
Post by: thingie2 on August 12, 2024, 01:51:03 pm
I think I've made all the changes you've both suggested:

Quote
There are several issues with the “Operator Case Summary” provided, which I will detail below:
1.   ParkingEye have not attempted to counter point 1 from my appeal (The Notice to Keeper (attached copy for reference) does not comply with the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012. Specifically, in PoFA 2012, Schedule 4, item 9(2)(e)(i), the NtK must "state that the creditor does not know both the name of the driver and a current address for service for the driver and invite the keeper to pay the unpaid parking charges".
The NtK does not fulfil the requirements of 9(2)(e)(i) as there is no invitation (or synonym thereof) to pay the unpaid parking charges as the registered keeper. There is only the invitation to pay as the driver, or nominate someone else as the driver.), therefore it can be considered accepted by ParkingEye that the NtK does not fulfil the requirements of PoFA Schedule 4, item 9(2)(e)(i) & therefore ParkingEye have no right to recover any unpaid charges from myself, as registered keeper.
2.   ParkingEye have not attempted to counter point 2 from my appeal (The NtK does not comply with the British Parking Association Code of Practice, e.g. items 2.4, 21.2, 21.13, 22.6 & 24.3.), therefore it can be considered accepted by ParkingEye that they do not comply with the British Parking Association CoP & therefore the appeal should be upheld.
3.   ParkingEye have not attempted to counter point 2.1 from my appeal (BPA CoP item 2.4 states that all AOS  member should be aware of their legal obligations, include the PoFA 2012 Schedule 4, which is shown above in point 1 that ParkingEye do not comply with.), therefore it can be considered accepted by ParkingEye that they do not comply with the British Parking Association CoP item 2.4 & therefore ParkingEye have no right to recover any unpaid charges from myself, as registered keeper.
4.   ParkingEye have not attempted to counter point 2.2 from my appeal (BPA CoP item 21.2 states that as long as the strict conditions of Schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012 are met, unpaid parking charges can be reclaimed from the keeper, rather than the driver of the vehicle. As shown above in point 1, Schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012 aren't met and therefore there is no right to reclaim the unpaid parking charge from myself, as the registered keeper of the vehicle.), therefore it can be considered accepted by ParkingEye that they do not comply with the British Parking Association CoP item 21.2 & therefore the liability of the PCN cannot be passed to myself, as registered keeper.
5.   ParkingEye have not attempted to counter point 2.3 from my appeal (BPA CoP item 21.13 states "You should see the relevant part of Schedule 4 of POFA 2012 to make sure you know: what contents you need to include in the Notice to Keeper (paragraph 8(2) or 9(2))" As shown above in point 1, Schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012 is not met.), therefore it can be considered accepted by ParkingEye that they do not comply with the British Parking Association CoP item 21.13 & therefore ParkingEye have no right to recover any unpaid charges from myself, as registered keeper.
6.   ParkingEye have not attempted to counter point 2.4 from my appeal (BPA CoP item 22.6 states "If you want to make use of the Keeper Liability provisions in Schedule 4 of POFA 2012 and you have not issued and delivered a parking charge notice to the driver in the car park where the parking event took place, your Notice to Keeper must meet the strict
requirements and timetable set out in the Schedule (in particular paragraph 9)." As shown above in point 1, Schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012 is not met.), therefore it can be considered accepted by ParkingEye that they do not comply with the British Parking Association CoP item 22.6 & therefore the liability of the PCN cannot be passed to myself, as registered keeper.
7.   ParkingEye have not attempted to counter point 2.5 from my appeal (BPA CoP item 24.3 states "Under POFA 2012, you can gain the right to recover unpaid charges from keepers only if particular conditions have been met. Once the conditions are met you may use your right to recover, after the end of the period of 28 days beginning with the day on which the Notice to Keeper was given. You should read paragraph 4 of Schedule 4 of POFA 2012 to understand what these conditions are" As shown above in point 1, Schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012 is not met, and therefore there is no right to recover unpaid charges from the myself, as the registered keeper.), therefore it can be considered accepted by ParkingEye that they do not comply with the British Parking Association CoP item 24.3 & therefore ParkingEye have no right to recover any unpaid charges from myself, as registered keeper.
8.   As shown above, ParkingEye have made no attempt to rebuttal any of the points made in my appeal, therefore it can be assumed that they have accepted these points & as a result, the Appeal should be upheld & the PCN cancelled.
9.   ParkingEye have not provided a contract that meets the requirements in point 3 from my appeal, as the Contract shown on on page 10/11 has the grace period redacted. This is an integral part of the contract, and therefore a contract with this information redacted should not be accepted.
10.   The Rules and Conditions stated on Page 4 specify a 2 hour free stay, with a tariff applying upto a maximum stay of 3 hours (which matches the photos of the signage), whereas the contract provided on page 10 &11 states 1 hour free stay, with a maximum stay of 2 hours, indicating the published T&Cs do not follow the contract ParkingEye has with the land owner.
11.   On page 5, it states "You have stated that you do not believe that theParking Charge amount is a pre-estimation of loss, or that it is extravagant,unfair or unreasonable". I have made no such claim in my appeal wording.

I have demonstrated multiple reasons why my appeal should be upheld.

Comes in just shy of 6000 characters, so should be fine. Unless you feel there's anything else that should be changed, I'll submit this later today.
Title: Re: ParkingEye PCN for exceeding free stay period, but not paying for remainder @ Rugby Asda
Post by: b789 on August 12, 2024, 11:48:46 am
For example, point 1, by not being fully PoFA compliant, does not invalidate the PCN. It simply means that the keeper cannot be liable. The driver can always be liable. However, if the driver has not been identified… Catch-22.

On all the points where they have not answered your points on the BPA CoP, don’t just state the point. Explain the CoP point that has not been complied with,

Remember, you are trying to make the assessors life easy. Expecting them to go digging into the CoP to see what each point you have mentioned, is not making their life easy.

I believe that there is a 10,000 character limit for the response so once you’ve completed it, stick it in a text editor and check the character count does not exceed the limit.
Title: Re: ParkingEye PCN for exceeding free stay period, but not paying for remainder @ Rugby Asda
Post by: DWMB2 on August 12, 2024, 09:25:29 am
This being largely unregulated industry, PCNs are generally not 'invalid', as such. Where you say "Therefore the PCN/NTK is invalid" I would change this to "therefore the appeal should be upheld"
Title: Re: ParkingEye PCN for exceeding free stay period, but not paying for remainder @ Rugby Asda
Post by: thingie2 on August 12, 2024, 09:00:20 am
I plan to submit my reponse today, but here's what I plan to say, if you're able to take a quick look through & let me know if there's anything significant I should change/add/remove?

Quote
There are several issues with the “Operator Case Summary” provided, which I will detail below:
1. ParkingEye have not attempted to counter point 1 from my appeal, therefore it can be considered accepted by ParkingEye that the NtK does not fulfil the requirements of PoFA Schedule 4, item 9(2)(e)(i) & therefore the NtK is invalid.
2. ParkingEye have not attempted to counter point 2 from my appeal, therefore it can be considered accepted by ParkingEye that they do not comply with the British Parking Association CoP & therefore the PCN is invalid.
3. ParkingEye have not attempted to counter point 2.1 from my appeal, therefore it can be considered accepted by ParkingEye that they do not comply with the British Parking Association CoP item 2.4 & therefore the PCN is invalid.
4. ParkingEye have not attempted to counter point 2.2 from my appeal, therefore it can be considered accepted by ParkingEye that they do not comply with the British Parking Association CoP item 21.2 & therefore the liability of the PCN cannot be passed to myself, as registered keeper.
5. ParkingEye have not attempted to counter point 2.3 from my appeal, therefore it can be considered accepted by ParkingEye that they do not comply with the British Parking Association CoP item 21.13 & therefore the NtK is invalid.
6. ParkingEye have not attempted to counter point 2.4 from my appeal, therefore it can be considered accepted by ParkingEye that they do not comply with the British Parking Association CoP item 22.6 & therefore the liability of the PCN cannot be passed to myself, as registered keeper.
7. ParkingEye have not attempted to counter point 2.5 from my appeal, therefore it can be considered accepted by ParkingEye that they do not comply with the British Parking Association CoP item 24.3 & therefore ParkingEye have no right to recover any unpaid charges from myself, as registered keeper.
8. ParkingEye have made no attempt to rebuttal any of the points made in my appeal, therefore it can be assumed that they have accepted these points & as a result, the Appeal should be upheld & the PCN cancelled.
9. ParkingEye have not provided a contract that meets the requirements in point 3 from my appeal, as the Contract shown on on page 10/11 has the grace period redacted. This is an integral part of the contract, and therefore a contract with this information redacted should not be accepted.
10. The Rules and Conditions stated on Page 4 specify a 2 hour free stay, with a tariff applying upto a maximum stay of 3 hours (which matches the photos of the signage), whereas the contract provided on page 10 &11 states 1 hour free stay, with a maximum stay of 2 hours, indicating the published T&Cs do not follow the contract ParkingEye has with the land owner.
11. On page 5, it states "You have stated that you do not believe that theParking Charge amount is a pre-estimation of loss, or that it is extravagant,unfair or unreasonable". I have made no such claim in my appeal wording.

I have demonstrated multiple reasons why both the NtK & PCN are invalid & therefore my appeal should be upheld & the PCN cancelled.
Title: Re: ParkingEye PCN for exceeding free stay period, but not paying for remainder @ Rugby Asda
Post by: b789 on August 07, 2024, 04:25:02 pm
You are correct. Simply list each point they have not answered or rebutted.

Also list each point where you contest their answer such as difference between what the contract says and what the signage Ts & Cs state.

List any statements such as where they say you stated something but you did not do so.

You need to lead the assessor by the nose to each point that they have not countered and also to each point where they have erred or accused you of something that you didn't do or say and is not evidenced.

Make the assessors life easy and do as much of the work for them as you can. They will appreciate it, I'm sure.
Title: Re: ParkingEye PCN for exceeding free stay period, but not paying for remainder @ Rugby Asda
Post by: thingie2 on August 07, 2024, 04:14:57 pm
My first draft of points to raise:

Rules and Conditions stated on Page 4 specify a 2 hour free stay, with a tariff applying upto a maximum stay of 3 hours, whereas the contract provided on page 10/11 states 1 hour free stay, with a maximum stay of 2 hours, indicating the published T&Cs do not follow the contract ParkingEye has with the land owner. - I assume there's an updated contract, but should I mention this, or does this just make this evidence invalid & means they have no evidence they actually have the authority to issue PCN?

On page 5, it states "You have stated that you do not believe that theParking Charge amount is a pre-estimation of loss, or that it is extravagant,unfair or unreasonable". I have made no such claim in my appeal wording. - Should I state this? Does the fact they mention this change my response at all?

The Contract shown on on page 10/11 has the grace period redacted. This is an integral part of the contract, and therefore a contract with this information redacted should not be accepted.

ParkingEye have made no attempt to rebuttal any of the points made in my appeal, therefore it can be assumed that they have accepted these points & as a result, the Appeal should be upheld & the PCN cancelled.

Not sure there's not much more I can say, as they've not tried to counter any of the points I made, so I can't counter their counter. It definitely seems like a standard evidence pack they pull together, rather than tailoring it to the actual appeal. Happy to have any wording altered, removed completely etc, and especially if I've made a mistake somewhere.
Title: Re: ParkingEye PCN for exceeding free stay period, but not paying for remainder @ Rugby Asda
Post by: thingie2 on August 06, 2024, 05:58:05 pm
Here's the Document provided by parking eye, with (I think!) all my personal details removed/redacted.

TBH I don't think they've really tried to argue any of the points I made in my appeal, and instead is just a standard response of "this is how it is".

I'll have a full read through & draft a response, but if you get a chance, any assistance on points to raise would be great

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/eiog88wpykf656kn0nq21/Parking-Eye-evidedence-redacted.pdf?rlkey=9zcgoafn8iqhdfjzao8a1bz83&st=wgdr0nji&dl=0
Title: Re: ParkingEye PCN for exceeding free stay period, but not paying for remainder @ Rugby Asda
Post by: DWMB2 on August 06, 2024, 04:31:20 pm
Is it worth me redacting any identifiable info from this & uploading here for you to take a look at
If possible. I can't promise I'll be able to comb through the whole thing (I have enough contracts to look through in my day job  ;D ) but we might be able to spot some things you can highlight.

As I said in another ParkingEye case currently at POPLA stage earlier today - As a general rule, your approach to the comments stage of POPLA is to draw attention to any of your appeal points that ParkingEye have failed to address, or any bits of their evidence that are shoddy, undermine their arguments, and/or support yours. If they have failed to address a point you have made, point this out - you can suggest that their lack of rebuttal indicates they accept the point.
Title: Re: ParkingEye PCN for exceeding free stay period, but not paying for remainder @ Rugby Asda
Post by: b789 on August 06, 2024, 04:30:00 pm
In your response to the operators evidence pack, you must highlight any points you raise in your appeal that they have not rebutted or answered.
Title: Re: ParkingEye PCN for exceeding free stay period, but not paying for remainder @ Rugby Asda
Post by: thingie2 on August 06, 2024, 04:26:54 pm
Parking Eye have now added their "information & evidence" pack (50 pages). Is it worth me redacting any identifiable info from this & uploading here for you to take a look at, as it says I have 7 days to respond to this if I want to.

I've had a quick skim through & noticed a couple of things:
1. The contract included has the grace period redacted
2. the free stay period mentioned on the contract does not match the car park (contract states 1 hour free, whereas the car park & all other documentation says 2 hours free) (I'm pretty sure it used to be 1 hour free, rather than 2 & has changed in the last few years, so I'm assuming is an outdated contract)
Title: Re: ParkingEye PCN for exceeding free stay period, but not paying for remainder @ Rugby Asda
Post by: thingie2 on August 02, 2024, 03:30:50 pm
Cheers, I've submitted my appeal. Will wait & see what comes of it.
Title: Re: ParkingEye PCN for exceeding free stay period, but not paying for remainder @ Rugby Asda
Post by: b789 on August 02, 2024, 03:25:47 pm
Send it. Even if POPLA reject the appeal, you can safely ignore it as it has no bearing on any future proceedings.
Title: Re: ParkingEye PCN for exceeding free stay period, but not paying for remainder @ Rugby Asda
Post by: thingie2 on August 02, 2024, 01:48:34 pm
Thanks for all the help so far, hopefully this will be the last draft of my appeal then, if you could give it a look over & let me know if you think it's all good, or if anything needs to change?

Quote
There are multiple points to my appeal:

1. The Notice to Keeper (attached copy for reference) does not comply with the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012. Specifically, in PoFA 2012, Schedule 4, item 9(2)(e)(i), the NtK must "state that the creditor does not know both the name of the driver and a current address for service for the driver and invite the keeper to pay the unpaid parking charges".
The NtK does not fulfil the requirements of 9(2)(e)(i) as there is no invitation (or synonym thereof) to pay the unpaid parking charges as the registered keeper. There is only the invitation to pay as the driver, or nominate someone else as the driver.

2. The NtK does not comply with the British Parking Association Code of Practice, e.g. items 2.4, 21.2, 21.13, 22.6 & 24.3.

2.1 BPA CoP item 2.4 states that all AOS  member should be aware of their legal obligations, include the PoFA 2012 Schedule 4, which is shown above in point 1 that ParkingEye do not comply with.

2.2 BPA CoP item 21.2 states that as long as the strict conditions of Schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012 are met, unpaid parking charges can be reclaimed from the keeper, rather than the driver of the vehicle. As shown above in point 1, Schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012 aren't met and therefore there is no right to reclaim the unpaid parking charge from myself, as the registered keeper of the vehicle.

2.3 BPA CoP item 21.13 states "You should see the relevant part of Schedule 4 of POFA 2012 to make sure you know: what contents you need to include in the Notice to Keeper (paragraph 8(2) or 9(2))" As shown above in point 1, Schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012 is not met.

2.4 BPA CoP item 22.6 states "If you want to make use of the Keeper Liability provisions in Schedule 4 of POFA 2012 and you have not issued and delivered a parking charge notice to the driver in the car park where the parking event took place, your Notice to Keeper must meet the strict
requirements and timetable set out in the Schedule (in particular paragraph 9)." As shown above in point 1, Schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012 is not met.

2.5 BPA CoP item 24.3 states "Under POFA 2012, you can gain the right to recover unpaid charges from keepers only if particular conditions have been met. Once the conditions are met you may use your right to recover, after the end of the period of 28 days beginning with the day on which the Notice to Keeper was given. You should read paragraph 4 of Schedule 4 of POFA 2012 to understand what these conditions are" As shown above in point 1, Schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012 is not met, and therefore there is no right to recover unpaid charges from the myself, as the registered keeper.

As shown above, there are multiple requirements in both the BPA CoP & PoFA 2012 that ParkingEye have not complied with & therefore the NtK is invalid & they have no right to reclaim any unpaid parking charges from myself, as the registered keeper.

3. No evidence of landowner authority
The operator is also put to strict proof, by means of contemporaneous and unredacted evidence, of a chain of authority flowing from the landholder of the "relevant land" to the operator. It is not accepted that the operator has adhered to the landholder's definitions, exemptions, grace period, hours of operation, etc. and any instructions to cancel charges due to complaints. There is no evidence that the freeholder authorises this operator to issue parking charges or what the land enforcement boundary and start/expiry dates are, nor whether this operator has standing to enforce such charges in their own name rather than a bare licence to act as an agent ‘on behalf of’ the landowner.

The operator is put to strict proof of full compliance with the BPA Code of Practice as this operator does not have proprietary interest in the “relevant land” then I require that they produce an unredacted copy of the contract with the landowner.

The contract and any 'site agreement' or 'User Manual' setting out details including exemptions - such as any 'genuine customer' or 'genuine resident' exemptions or any site occupier's 'right of veto' charge cancellation rights - is key evidence to define what this operator is authorised to do and any circumstances where the landowner/firms on site in fact have a right to cancellation of a charge. It cannot be assumed, just because an agent is contracted to merely put some signs up and issue Parking Charge Notices, that the agent is also authorised to make contracts with all or any category of visiting drivers and/or to enforce the charge in court in their own name (legal action regarding land use disputes generally being a matter for a landowner only). Witness statements are not sound evidence of the above, often being pre-signed, generic documents not even identifying the case in hand or even the site rules.

A witness statement might in some cases be accepted by POPLA but in this case I suggest it is unlikely to sufficiently evidence the definition of the services provided by each party to the agreement. Nor would it define vital information such as charging days/times, and exemption clauses, grace periods (which I believe may be longer than the bare minimum times set out in the BPA CoP) and basic information such as the land boundary and bays where enforcement applies/does not apply.

Not forgetting evidence of the various restrictions which the landowner has authorised can give rise to a charge and, of course, how much the landowner authorises this agent to charge (which cannot be assumed to be the sum on a sign because template private parking terms and sums have been known not to match the actual landowner agreement). Paragraph 7 of the BPA Code of Practice defines the mandatory requirements and I put this operator to strict proof of full compliance:

7.2 If the operator wishes to take legal action on any outstanding parking charges, they must ensure that they have the written authority of the landowner (or their appointed agent) prior to legal action being taken.

7.3 The written authorisation must also set out:

(a) the definition of the land on which you may operate, so that the boundaries of the land can be clearly defined

(b) any conditions or restrictions on parking control and enforcement operations, including any restrictions on hours of operation

(c) any conditions or restrictions on the types of vehicles that may, or may not, be subject to parking control and enforcement

(d) who has the responsibility for putting up and maintaining signs

(e) the definition of the services provided by each party to the agreement
Title: Re: ParkingEye PCN for exceeding free stay period, but not paying for remainder @ Rugby Asda
Post by: thingie2 on August 02, 2024, 01:38:16 pm
Thanks, I'll add that in, and good idea on the numbering.
Title: Re: ParkingEye PCN for exceeding free stay period, but not paying for remainder @ Rugby Asda
Post by: DWMB2 on August 02, 2024, 01:37:25 pm
Yes. For ease of reading, you might want to number your appeal points.
Title: Re: ParkingEye PCN for exceeding free stay period, but not paying for remainder @ Rugby Asda
Post by: thingie2 on August 02, 2024, 01:24:25 pm
Great, thanks.

Just to confirm, I should just copy/paste what you added in quotes to the end of the rest of the text I mentioned for my appeal?
Title: Re: ParkingEye PCN for exceeding free stay period, but not paying for remainder @ Rugby Asda
Post by: b789 on August 02, 2024, 01:04:43 pm
As above. No need to request it. Just add to your POPLA appeal that you put the operator to strict proof that they have a valid contract flowing from the landowner to issue PCNs in their own name.

Here is an example of a section you could use:

Quote
No evidence of landowner authority

The operator is also put to strict proof, by means of contemporaneous and unredacted evidence, of a chain of authority flowing from the landholder of the "relevant land" to the operator. It is not accepted that the operator has adhered to the landholder's definitions, exemptions, grace period, hours of operation, etc. and any instructions to cancel charges due to complaints. There is no evidence that the freeholder authorises this operator to issue parking charges or what the land enforcement boundary and start/expiry dates are, nor whether this operator has standing to enforce such charges in their own name rather than a bare licence to act as an agent ‘on behalf of’ the landowner.

The operator is put to strict proof of full compliance with the BPA Code of Practice as this operator does not have proprietary interest in the “relevant land” then I require that they produce an unredacted copy of the contract with the landowner.

The contract and any 'site agreement' or 'User Manual' setting out details including exemptions - such as any 'genuine customer' or 'genuine resident' exemptions or any site occupier's 'right of veto' charge cancellation rights - is key evidence to define what this operator is authorised to do and any circumstances where the landowner/firms on site in fact have a right to cancellation of a charge. It cannot be assumed, just because an agent is contracted to merely put some signs up and issue Parking Charge Notices, that the agent is also authorised to make contracts with all or any category of visiting drivers and/or to enforce the charge in court in their own name (legal action regarding land use disputes generally being a matter for a landowner only). Witness statements are not sound evidence of the above, often being pre-signed, generic documents not even identifying the case in hand or even the site rules.

A witness statement might in some cases be accepted by POPLA but in this case I suggest it is unlikely to sufficiently evidence the definition of the services provided by each party to the agreement. Nor would it define vital information such as charging days/times, and exemption clauses, grace periods (which I believe may be longer than the bare minimum times set out in the BPA CoP) and basic information such as the land boundary and bays where enforcement applies/does not apply.

Not forgetting evidence of the various restrictions which the landowner has authorised can give rise to a charge and, of course, how much the landowner authorises this agent to charge (which cannot be assumed to be the sum on a sign because template private parking terms and sums have been known not to match the actual landowner agreement). Paragraph 7 of the BPA Code of Practice defines the mandatory requirements and I put this operator to strict proof of full compliance:

7.2 If the operator wishes to take legal action on any outstanding parking charges, they must ensure that they have the written authority of the landowner (or their appointed agent) prior to legal action being taken.

7.3 The written authorisation must also set out:

(a) the definition of the land on which you may operate, so that the boundaries of the land can be clearly defined

(b) any conditions or restrictions on parking control and enforcement operations, including any restrictions on hours of operation

(c) any conditions or restrictions on the types of vehicles that may, or may not, be subject to parking control and enforcement

(d) who has the responsibility for putting up and maintaining signs

(e) the definition of the services provided by each party to the agreement
Title: Re: ParkingEye PCN for exceeding free stay period, but not paying for remainder @ Rugby Asda
Post by: DWMB2 on August 02, 2024, 12:22:56 pm
There's nothing to indicate it, but by requesting it in your POPLA appeal, it will highlight if one isn't in place. Always worth a go, in case they don't produce one.

I'm concerned if I request the information from ParkingEye, they won't respond quick enough.
If you request it from ParkingEye, they won't provide it at all, as they aren't required to share their contract with members of the public. They are required to prove to POPLA they have one though, if it's raised in the appeal.
Title: Re: ParkingEye PCN for exceeding free stay period, but not paying for remainder @ Rugby Asda
Post by: thingie2 on August 02, 2024, 12:20:28 pm
Is there something to indicate that a contract is not in place, or is it just best practice to request one? I assume I want that, as it (should) mention that they have to comply with BPA CoP & PoFA & if it does state that, then it's further evidence they aren't meeting their authorisation to issue a PCN?

Do I just add this request into the appeal, or do I need to make it seperately to ParkingEye in advance of making the appeal? Due to various things, I've only just got round to submitting the appeal, so I'm <1 week from the 28 day deadline for submitting to popla & I'm concerned if I request the information from ParkingEye, they won't respond quick enough.
Title: Re: ParkingEye PCN for exceeding free stay period, but not paying for remainder @ Rugby Asda
Post by: b789 on August 02, 2024, 11:49:47 am
No need to include copies of PoFA or BPA CoP. No need to include copy of PCN either.

Are you going to include any mention of lack of landowner authority? Require them to provide an unredacted copy of a contract flowing from the landowner to the operator allowing them to issue PCNs in their own name. Tell the assessor that a copy of a signed statement saying that there is a contract in place is not sufficient.
Title: Re: ParkingEye PCN for exceeding free stay period, but not paying for remainder @ Rugby Asda
Post by: thingie2 on August 02, 2024, 10:40:16 am
Also, should I be attaching a copy of the PoFA & BPA CoP, or is it ok to just provide the quotes I have & if they want to verify this text, or review the documents further, they will do so from their own copies?
Title: Re: ParkingEye PCN for exceeding free stay period, but not paying for remainder @ Rugby Asda
Post by: thingie2 on August 02, 2024, 10:36:46 am
How's this as a more comprehensive appeal to submit?

The Notice to Keeper (attached copy for reference) does not comply with the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012. Specifically, in PoFA 2012, Schedule 4, item 9(2)(e)(i), the NtK must "state that the creditor does not know both the name of the driver and a current address for service for the driver and invite the keeper to pay the unpaid parking charges".
The NtK does not fulfil the requirements of 9(2)(e)(i) as there is no invitation (or synonym thereof) to pay the unpaid parking charges as the registered keeper. There is only the invitation to pay as the driver, or nominate someone else as the driver.

In additon, the NtK does not comply with the British Parking Association Code of Practice, e.g. items 2.4, 21.2, 21.13, 22.6 & 24.3.

BPA CoP item 2.4 states that all AOS  member should be aware of their legal obligations, include the PoFA 2012 Schedule 4, which is shown above that ParkingEye do not comply with.

BPA CoP item 21.2 states that as long as the strict conditions of Schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012 are met, unpaid parking charges can be reclaimed from the keeper, rather than the driver of the vehicle. As shown above, Schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012 aren't met and therefore there is no right to reclaim the unpaid parking charge from myself, as the registered keeper of the vehicle.

BPA CoP item 21.13 states "You should see the relevant part of Schedule 4 of POFA 2012 to make sure you know:
• what contents you need to include in the Notice to
Keeper (paragraph 8(2) or 9(2))" As shown above, Schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012 is not met.

BPA CoP item 22.6 states "If you want to make use of the Keeper Liability provisions in Schedule 4 of POFA 2012 and you have not issued and delivered a parking charge notice to the driver in the car park where the parking event took place, your Notice to Keeper must meet the strict
requirements and timetable set out in the Schedule (in particular paragraph 9)." As shown above, Schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012 is not met.

BPA CoP item 24.3 states "Under POFA 2012, you can gain the right to recover unpaid charges from keepers only if particular conditions have been met. Once the conditions are met you may use your right to recover, after the end of the period of 28 days beginning with the day on which the Notice to Keeper was given. You should read paragraph 4 of Schedule 4 of POFA 2012 to understand what these conditions are" As shown above, Schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012 is not met, and therefore there is no right to recover unpaid charges from the myself, as the registered keeper.

As shown above, there are multiple requirements in both the BPA CoP & PoFA 2012 that ParkingEye have not complied with & therefore the NtK is invalid & they have no right to reclaim any unpaid parking charges from myself, as the registered keeper.
Title: Re: ParkingEye PCN for exceeding free stay period, but not paying for remainder @ Rugby Asda
Post by: thingie2 on August 02, 2024, 10:02:54 am
Cheers, I'll expand further
Title: Re: ParkingEye PCN for exceeding free stay period, but not paying for remainder @ Rugby Asda
Post by: b789 on August 02, 2024, 09:26:06 am
In a POPLA appeal, you need to lead the assessor through your points. List your points and then go through each one in as much detail as possible, highlighting words as necessary to make your point. For example, in the point about the NtK not fully complying with all the requirements of PoFA, emphasise that 9(2)(e)(i) is not fullfiled because there is no invitation, nor any synonym of the word.

If you’re highlighting BPA CoP failures, highlight each one, quoting from the CoP.
Title: Re: ParkingEye PCN for exceeding free stay period, but not paying for remainder @ Rugby Asda
Post by: thingie2 on August 02, 2024, 09:09:29 am
Unsuprisingly ParkingEye rejected my appeal, so I am submitting an appeal to Popla.

I was going to state the following:
Notice to Keeper does not comply with the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012. Specifically, in PoFA 2012, Schedule 4, item 9(2)(e)(i), the NtK must "state that the creditor does not know both the name of the driver and a current address for service for the driver and invite the keeper to pay the unpaid parking charges". The NtK does not state this & therefore the NtK is invalid & cannot be enforced. In additon, the NtK does not comply with the British Parking Association Code of Practice, e.g. items 2.4, 21.2, 21.13, 22.6 & 24.3.

And attach a copy of the NtK as evidence. Is there anything I should add/change/remove to increase my chance of success?
Title: Re: ParkingEye PCN for exceeding free stay period, but not paying for remainder @ Rugby Asda
Post by: thingie2 on May 18, 2024, 11:30:45 am
Plan A is a non starter unfortunatly. The car park isn't exclusively for ASDA customers (it's just where it is), and was in use to visit other locations nearby.

For Plan B and/or C, is there any template as to what should be stated to the appeal (although from what I've read, these are generally automated to say no anyway, so does it matter?) From a quick look at PoFA 9(2)(e)(i) that you mentioned, is this not covered by the first paragraph under the "Protection of Freedoms Act" section on the rear, or is this not worded correctly to comply?
You should still try Plan A. If the car park is not exclusively for Asda then find out who the landowner/managing agent is for the car park. If there are multiple businesses at the location, there may be a plinth that has all the names of the stores. Often, on that plinth there will be the name of the managing agent.

I'll take a look & see.

Regarding PoFA 9(2)(e)(i), have a read of it yourself and show me where, on the NtK you have shown us that there is any invitation for the keeper to pay the charge.

Quote
A notice which is to be relied on as a notice to keeper for the purposes of paragraph 6(1)(b) is given in accordance with this paragraph if the following requirements are met. The notice must state that the creditor does not know both the name of the driver and a current address for service for the driver and invite the keeper to pay the unpaid parking charges.
Ah, that's the bit I was missing I think.  I agree, it doesn't seem to offer the keeper to pay, rather than declare the driver.
Title: Re: ParkingEye PCN for exceeding free stay period, but not paying for remainder @ Rugby Asda
Post by: b789 on May 17, 2024, 03:23:47 pm
Plan A is a non starter unfortunatly. The car park isn't exclusively for ASDA customers (it's just where it is), and was in use to visit other locations nearby.

For Plan B and/or C, is there any template as to what should be stated to the appeal (although from what I've read, these are generally automated to say no anyway, so does it matter?) From a quick look at PoFA 9(2)(e)(i) that you mentioned, is this not covered by the first paragraph under the "Protection of Freedoms Act" section on the rear, or is this not worded correctly to comply?
You should still try Plan A. If the car park is not exclusively for Asda then find out who the landowner/managing agent is for the car park. If there are multiple businesses at the location, there may be a plinth that has all the names of the stores. Often, on that plinth there will be the name of the managing agent.

Regarding PoFA 9(2)(e)(i), have a read of it yourself and show me where, on the NtK you have shown us that there is any invitation for the keeper to pay the charge.

Quote
A notice which is to be relied on as a notice to keeper for the purposes of paragraph 6(1)(b) is given in accordance with this paragraph if the following requirements are met. The notice must state that the creditor does not know both the name of the driver and a current address for service for the driver and invite the keeper to pay the unpaid parking charges.
Title: Re: ParkingEye PCN for exceeding free stay period, but not paying for remainder @ Rugby Asda
Post by: b789 on May 17, 2024, 03:16:04 pm
In my previous experience, POPLA assessors were usually less amenable to finding in favour of appellants on PoFA failures of the nature of the one suggested. If they're becoming more amenable to them, then it's worth us collating some examples.
I don't have any to hand at the moment but it must be included in a POPLA appeal as they are obliged to take it into account. It is a breach of the strict requirements of PoFA and therefore also a breach of the BPA CoP 2.4, 21.2, 21.13, 22.6 and 24.3. It is incumbent on the appellant to highlight these breaches to POPLA. The assessor has to show that the operator has strictly complied with PoFA and the BPA CoP.

Sadly, not enough appellants focus this PoFA and, therefore, BPA CoP failure to the attention of the assessor. If it is not rebutted, a complaint to POOPLA should be made, if only to get them to retrain their assessors in understanding the strict requirements of fully complying wth PoFA and the BPA CoP.

At the end of the day, a judge would be able to understand it if it is explained thoroughly.
Title: Re: ParkingEye PCN for exceeding free stay period, but not paying for remainder @ Rugby Asda
Post by: thingie2 on May 17, 2024, 02:51:10 pm
Were you a customer of Asda? Plan A is to always contact the landowner/store and ask them to get the PCN cancelled. ParkingEye will usually cancel it at the request of the store if you can show you were a customer.

After you've tried Plan A, you can, if unsuccessful, try Plan B which is to appeal to PE. As there is a PoFA flaw in the NtK, you should not identify the driver. Due to the failure by PE to fully comply with the strict requirements of PoFA 9(2)(e)(i), they cannot transfer liability from the driver (who they have no idea of unless you blab it to them) to they, the keeper.

However, they are likely to ignore this and reject your appeal which leads on to Plan C which is a POPLA appeal. As long as you lead the POPLA assessor by the nose to the PoFA failure, you should (depending on whether the tea-boy is doing the assessments that day) be successful.

There is a Plan D but we can cover that once you've exhausted Plans A, B and C.
Thanks.

Plan A is a non starter unfortunatly. The car park isn't exclusively for ASDA customers (it's just where it is), and was in use to visit other locations nearby.

For Plan B and/or C, is there any template as to what should be stated to the appeal (although from what I've read, these are generally automated to say no anyway, so does it matter?) From a quick look at PoFA 9(2)(e)(i) that you mentioned, is this not covered by the first paragraph under the "Protection of Freedoms Act" section on the rear, or is this not worded correctly to comply?
Title: Re: ParkingEye PCN for exceeding free stay period, but not paying for remainder @ Rugby Asda
Post by: DWMB2 on May 17, 2024, 02:48:28 pm
Quote
As long as you lead the POPLA assessor by the nose to the PoFA failure, you should (depending on whether the tea-boy is doing the assessments that day) be successful.
Are you able to provide some recent POPLA case references where this approach has worked with ParkingEye charges?

In my previous experience, POPLA assessors were usually less amenable to finding in favour of appellants on PoFA failures of the nature of the one suggested. If they're becoming more amenable to them, then it's worth us collating some examples.
Title: Re: ParkingEye PCN for exceeding free stay period, but not paying for remainder @ Rugby Asda
Post by: b789 on May 17, 2024, 02:38:17 pm
Were you a customer of Asda? Plan A is to always contact the landowner/store and ask them to get the PCN cancelled. ParkingEye will usually cancel it at the request of the store if you can show you were a customer.

After you've tried Plan A, you can, if unsuccessful, try Plan B which is to appeal to PE. As there is a PoFA flaw in the NtK, you should not identify the driver. Due to the failure by PE to fully comply with the strict requirements of PoFA 9(2)(e)(i), they cannot transfer liability from the driver (who they have no idea of unless you blab it to them) to they, the keeper.

However, they are likely to ignore this and reject your appeal which leads on to Plan C which is a POPLA appeal. As long as you lead the POPLA assessor by the nose to the PoFA failure, you should (depending on whether the tea-boy is doing the assessments that day) be successful.

There is a Plan D but we can cover that once you've exhausted Plans A, B and C.
Title: ParkingEye PCN for exceeding free stay period, but not paying for remainder @ Rugby Asda
Post by: thingie2 on May 17, 2024, 02:16:55 pm
Driver parked in car park for a period of ~2 hours 40 mins (according to PCN, which is probably accurate). Car park has a free stay period of 2 hours (no ticket etc required for the free stay period). Payment is available to increase upto a maximum stay of 3 hours. Driver forgot to topup payment for the extra time.

I, as the registered keeper of the vehicle recieved the PCN ~1 week after the event. I've attached a copy of the PCN (with, I beleive all PII redacted).

Can anything be done to fight this?

Car park location: https://maps.app.goo.gl/2sWARciSB6t1oTkw5

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