Free Traffic Legal Advice
Live cases legal advice => Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) => Topic started by: Driver86 on May 12, 2024, 11:41:01 pm
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Let's see their letter of dishonourable retreat and consider an application for costs against them! 8)
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Hi All,
So after threatening me with costs and demanding I disclose confidential customer information to cancel the PCN, they've decided to withdraw their contest at tribunals ::)
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Always opt for a personal or telephone hearing if you can.
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Hi All, I have registered my appeal with London Tribunals and I believe we get 7 days to add if required? I was hoping someone can advise, am I best off asking for a telephone hearing instead of written reps? I've attached my written reps here, would be grateful if someone can look over it and let me know what they think? Thank you!
https://ibb.co/dPC9hTC
https://ibb.co/1TkqF17
https://ibb.co/BG4Pt6W
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Hi all, just a bit worried that with deadline coming up if someone with experience can look over?
What would be ideal reps for this, a telephone hearing or submit written?
Thanks!
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I've drafted up a rep for adjudication...
I am submitting this representation on the grounds that I do not believe the contravention occurred for the following reasons:
The vehicle was parked and made use of the loading bay at 20:11, as I believe I was entitled to do so. I am a courier driver working for Amazon’s “flex” programme, and therefore I am a 3rd party contractor.
Here is an image of the restriction I am alleged to have contravened.
<image of signage>
Being a private contractor, I therefore do not have access to Amazon’s internal customer database, and any request for this information is restricted by GDPR, which the enforcement authority appears to dismiss.
I have, however, provided the enforcement authority with information detailing that in between the hours of 19:00 and 21:00 I was on a shift making deliveries. I also explained to the enforcement authority that as I work alone, I cannot leave my vehicle’s windows and doors unlocked for the consideration of a CEO with the risk of theft.
Furthermore, I have reason to believe there is procedural impropriety on behalf of the authority Notice to Owner.
The NOR does not contain the correct mandatory info regarding the form and manner in which an appeal may be made. Specifically it omits the highlighted part of the following:
(2) An appeal under this regulation must be made within—
(a)the period of 28 days beginning with the date of service of the decision notice under regulation 6(4)(b) which states that the enforcement authority does not accept the recipient’s representations, or
(b)such longer period as the adjudicator may allow.
3. Not only is this vital information omitted, the authority reinforce the impropriety by stating the following which is found in lines 4 and 5 of the last para. on page 2 of the NOR:
'...penalty charge may increase by 50%. At this stage you would have missed the opportunity to appeal.'
Please advise what else I can add to stregnthen?
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OP, when and how did you submit reps against the NTO - you've skipped this step in the thread? You should aim to register your appeal no later than 13 Sept.
Thanks for the feedback. I did think there was alot of arrogance in there too! I submitted the formal rep in June I believe. At the time I was on holiday whilst awaiting a Subject Access Request with Amazon which unfortunately didn't yield anything I can use. So requested they confirm my schedule for the day.
I'll start drafting up an appeal to take to adjudication in the coming days.
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Procedural impropriety of the worst kind IMO.
1. A NOR is the end of the council's involvement in considering any reps. It does not lie with them to offer to reconsider as they've stated.
2. The NOR does not contain the correct mandatory info regarding the form and manner in which an appeal may be made. Specifically it omits the highlighted part of the following:
(2) An appeal under this regulation must be made within—
(a)the period of 28 days beginning with the date of service of the decision notice under regulation 6(4)(b) which states that the enforcement authority does not accept the recipient’s representations, or
(b)such longer period as the adjudicator may allow.
3. Not only is this vital information omitted, the authority reinforce the impropriety by stating the following which is found in lines 4 and 5 of the last para. on page 2 of the NOR:
'...penalty charge may increase by 50%. At this stage you would have missed the opportunity to appeal.'
What arrogance, it's breathtaking. The adjudicator may and often does accept appeals made even after a charge cert has been issued.
4. The council's threat to apply for costs. This is intimidating in that they are effectively trying to limit the scope and content of any appeal. OP, I've referred to this as point 4 because you could then use it to lead in to ..'as regards the issue of costs, you would respectfully ask the adjudicator for a steer as regards any application that you might make given the cumulative effect of the improprieties detailed above..'
OP, when and how did you submit reps against the NTO - you've skipped this step in the thread? You should aim to register your appeal no later than 13 Sept.
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Hi everyone, so i have a response back from them regarding this Loading bay contravention. The enforcement team are fixated on getting the customers home address which seems to be the block to overturning this. I did manage to get a letter from the courier service owners(Amazon) confirming I was on a delivary block, and that they can not provide addresses. Links below and left details to locate PCN if required. Feedback appreciated.
NOR
https://ibb.co/XsCGQ3z
https://ibb.co/ZgZ3PMp
https://ibb.co/CWhrGZm
Letter evidence
https://ibb.co/VWbPSZD
@Driver86 this is easily winnable but we need to substantiate your representations for the next stage.
Firstly, please read the guidance here (https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/read-this-first-before-posting-your-case!-this-section-is-for-council-tfl-dartme/) and repost the PCN without any redactions.
Secondly, who do you work for? Amazon? Evri? Whatever company it is that pays you, you must have some documentation confirming you actually work as a courier. A work schedule would help, or even something confirming you were paid for work done on that day.
Also if you have any correspondence (emails, whatsapp messages, text messages, whatever) showing that you tried to get delivery information but this was refused because of GDPR, copies of that correspondence would be important supporting evidence.
Lastly do you remember roughly how many deliveries there were, and which buildings they were in?
I used the loading bay to deliver to 3 locations, one of them being the building on that side of the bay.
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@Driver86 this is easily winnable but we need to substantiate your representations for the next stage.
Firstly, please read the guidance here (https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/read-this-first-before-posting-your-case!-this-section-is-for-council-tfl-dartme/) and repost the PCN without any redactions.
Secondly, who do you work for? Amazon? Evri? Whatever company it is that pays you, you must have some documentation confirming you actually work as a courier. A work schedule would help, or even something confirming you were paid for work done on that day.
Also if you have any correspondence (emails, whatsapp messages, text messages, whatever) showing that you tried to get delivery information but this was refused because of GDPR, copies of that correspondence would be important supporting evidence.
Lastly do you remember roughly how many deliveries there were, and which buildings they were in?
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I don't think what you have provided proves you were delivering. You need something much more positive, and that has to be either a schedule of your deliveries, but without specific addressees. A contract with the delivery company would also help, or a letter confirming you were delivering that day. Sorry, but you have to convince the council you really were in that bay for delivery purposes.
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Yes I submitted my insurance schedule. Unable to obtain proof of specific delivary info.
Here is my informal rep:
I am challenging this PCN as I do not believe that the contravention occurred. I am a courier driver and vehicle is classed as a commercial vehicle. Please see attached document. I am unable to provide delivary information as that is confidential relating to a customer and restricted by GDPR. I used the loading bay for a maximum of 20 minutes to complete my deliveries. I work alone and therefore I am unable to leave my vehicle unlocked with doors and windows open whilst I deliver the parcels. However, as can be seen in the enforcement officers photos, I left a note on my front dashboard windscreen indicating that I am currently making deliveries. The signage, as can be seen next to the bay and photo taken by your enforcement officer, clearly states "loading only 40 minutes, no return within 2 hours". Therefore I am uncertain which rule I am alleged to have contravened. The CEO observed my vehicle for 6 minutes. The enforcement officer alleges I was parked outside of restricted hours, but there are no restricted hours stated on the sign plate. It is therefore wholly unreasonable for the Local Authority to continue pursuing this and should take the appropriate action to cancel this PCN.
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Well, of course their letter is complete tosh, (no surprise there !). However the key question is - did you provide any collateral with your representations like a delivery schedule, proof of employment as a delivery driver etc ?
It would also help if you posted your representation text.
It should be reasonably easy to overturn this, assuming you have some collateral as above, but as they've rejected your informal reps, the next stage is the Notice to Owner if you are prepared to take this further. The NtO is sent to the name and address on the V5. So, are you the owner of the vehicle and is it your name and address on the V5 Registration Certificated, and is it up=to-date ?
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Hello everyone...it was a cold wet night on 1st March and I was out working as a courier. I parked in a loading bay at North End Road to complete my deliveries to a block of flats. I was parked there for about 20 minutes. When I returned to my car I was stunned to get a PCN, especially as I had put a note on my dashboard.
Here is the bay 4 N End Rd
https://maps.app.goo.gl/hp6eUcz8Psi9EGJo7
The PCN has code 25 parked in a loading bay during restricted hours without loading.
https://ibb.co/VS4GJtD
I appealed the PCN, stating that I am a courier driver and that I work alone, and could not risk leaving my windows/doors unlocked and open for the benefit of a CEO or a thief. I highlighted that I had left a message on my dashboard and I used the bay within the restrictions as stated on the sign plate.
I was also unable to obtain delivary confirmation due to GDPR, which I advice the LA.
Brent responded to my appeal on 2nd May, here is their reply
https://ibb.co/smYWJ8b
https://ibb.co/QrcM5nK
To summarise they state
●the bays are only for delivering to locations next to the bay
●PCN would be issued if no evidence of loading is observed.
The CEO observed my vehicle for 6 minutes out of the 40 the signage permits. Do I have any grounds to keep fighting this?