Free Traffic Legal Advice

Live cases legal advice => Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) => Topic started by: abdulsami1 on May 10, 2024, 10:13:19 am

Title: Re: Ealing Council - Greenford Road Code 32JD Fail proceed in direction shown by arrow blue sign
Post by: H C Andersen on January 30, 2025, 09:25:54 am
Greenford Road / The Broadway Ruislip Road gives >100 results and I couldn't find a single allowed appeal.

https://londontribunals.org.uk/ords/pwslive/f?p=14952:70::INITIALISE::70:P70_CAS_REFNO,P70_PCN_REFNO,P70_RETURN_PAGE,P70_AST_CODE:1647295,3043955,60,APPEAL&cs=3JN49of15iQsGJrkq9kfbCp2-GR89E20PJIJzNf9uAfDO0DdBiwbmoaWyPPSXbzxCpWth44DgV6fd-2NM1jfRIQ

Title: Re: Ealing Council - Greenford Road Code 32JD Fail proceed in direction shown by arrow blue sign
Post by: stamfordman on January 29, 2025, 11:37:28 pm
We've seen this junction a lot in the old forum. My view is that there should be a segregated lane or layout/signal sequence that obviously mitigates against not turning right but that doesn't fly with the tribunal although I've not looked at it for a while.
Title: Re: Ealing Council - Greenford Road Code 32JD Fail proceed in direction shown by arrow blue sign
Post by: Incandescent on January 29, 2025, 11:11:47 pm
Hello all

Well I arrived home today to receive a PCN for the same contravention at the same location. 32JD - Failing to proeed in the direction shown by the arrow on a blue sign (proceeding in the wrong direction).
In Greenford Road / The Broadway Ruislip Road, Greenford on 22nd Jan 2025.

Could you have a look at my video and give any advice on whether you think I have a chance to make a representation? If so, any suggested wording? My car is the Silver Mazda 5 that is at the front of the lane (which the camera zooms into at the start)


https://youtu.be/oXFS1rz6KJg (https://youtu.be/oXFS1rz6KJg)

I did realise I was in the wrong lane to go straight and the video shows that I turned my tyres sharply to the left to try to change/join the correct lane. Sadly when the traffic lights changes, I thought I was being let in by the green lorry, but this did not happen immediately.

If I understand it correctly, I think we are meant to change lane before passing the traffic lane. I think I had partially changed lane by then.

Thanks for any helps/tips anyone can offer - even if to tell me that you think I don't have a chance!
Please start your own thread, The rule here is one OP per thread. Of course you can continue to observe what happens in this one.
Title: Re: Ealing Council - Greenford Road Code 32JD Fail proceed in direction shown by arrow blue sign
Post by: svijay on January 29, 2025, 10:18:53 pm
Hello all

Well I arrived home today to receive a PCN for the same contravention at the same location. 32JD - Failing to proeed in the direction shown by the arrow on a blue sign (proceeding in the wrong direction).
In Greenford Road / The Broadway Ruislip Road, Greenford on 22nd Jan 2025.

Could you have a look at my video and give any advice on whether you think I have a chance to make a representation? If so, any suggested wording? My car is the Silver Mazda 5 that is at the front of the lane (which the camera zooms into at the start)


https://youtu.be/oXFS1rz6KJg (https://youtu.be/oXFS1rz6KJg)

I did realise I was in the wrong lane to go straight and the video shows that I turned my tyres sharply to the left to try to change/join the correct lane. Sadly when the traffic lights changes, I thought I was being let in by the green lorry, but this did not happen immediately.

If I understand it correctly, I think we are meant to change lane before passing the traffic lane. I think I had partially changed lane by then.

Thanks for any helps/tips anyone can offer - even if to tell me that you think I don't have a chance!
Title: Re: Ealing Council - Greenford Road Code 32JD Fail proceed in direction shown by arrow blue sign
Post by: cp8759 on June 18, 2024, 01:18:27 am
@abdulsami1 it's not a sure thing on appeal but we have won here before, I will drop you a PM if you'd like to be represented.
Title: Re: Ealing Council - Greenford Road Code 32JD Fail proceed in direction shown by arrow blue sign
Post by: chopwell20 on June 17, 2024, 09:23:57 pm
my sad storey at same junction greenford. i even lost at adjudicators. it was before finding this forum which i came across and always seek help here. good luck.

Decision of rejection is below for ref only:

Adjudicator's Reasons
I have borne in mind the points made by Mr. ------ in his notice of appeal and accompanying
documents. I have also borne in mind his very helpful evidence alongside the evidence provided by
the enforcement authority (EA).
The burden of proving the contravention lies on the EA. The standard of proof is the balance of
probabilities.
There is no dispute that the appellant's vehicle, which was in the offside of two lanes approaching the
junction in question, did not turn right from that lane but, instead, drove straight ahead.
I find as follows, on the balance of probabilities.
To the offside of the offside lane immediately before the junction was a traffic island upon which was
mounted a traffic light assembly. Part of that traffic assembly was a blue 'right turn only' directional
arrow sign. It applied to traffic in the offside of the two lanes. Also, in the offside lane in which Mr.
_______'s vehicle was travelling there was a 'right turn' arrow road marking and text reading 'turn
right'. I find that the sign and the road marking would have been visible to a motorist in adequate time
to manoeuvre into the correct lane. Once in the offside lane, however, a motorist is required to turn
right.
I bear in mind the points made by Mr. ______ . I find, however, that there was in place on the
occasion in question signage of the prescribed kind that was adequate to inform road users of the
requirement to turn right from the offside lane at the junction.
In those circumstances I find the alleged contravention proved.
Jack Walsh
Adjudicator
18th February 2023

Title: Re: Ealing Council - Greenford Road Code 32JD Fail proceed in direction shown by arrow blue sign
Post by: abdulsami1 on June 17, 2024, 08:44:16 pm


@cp8759

I've just received my notice of rejection.

Please advise with next steps.

Pictures found here:


https://imgur.com/a/YhutyVn
Title: Re: Ealing Council - Greenford Road Code 32JD Fail proceed in direction shown by arrow blue sign
Post by: abdulsami1 on May 16, 2024, 01:07:20 pm
I've submitted representations. Let's see what happens. Appreciate the help!
Title: Re: Ealing Council - Greenford Road Code 32JD Fail proceed in direction shown by arrow blue sign
Post by: cp8759 on May 15, 2024, 11:34:04 pm
@abdulsami1 a bit of context would have been nice!

The video doesn't appear on https://ealing.tarantoportal.com/ so I've requested it from https://viewmypcn.co.uk/default.aspx

Draft representation:

Dear London Borough of Ealing,

I challenge liability on the ground that the alleged contravention did not occur. In order to create an enforceable restriction, the council is required to provide segregated lanes, otherwise there is no impediment to a motorist lawfully switching lanes at any time (as this is not prohibited).

An example of a correct layout is found for instance on Filton Road in Bristol, I refer you to the images at LINK1 LINK2 and LINK3 which illustrate the point.

At the location captured by your camera, there are no restrictions or prohibitions on vehicles changing lane at any stage, nor can the turn right arrow embedded into the traffic light array have the effect you think it does: if it did, then all traffic including traffic in the left-hand lane would be required to turn right.

In the circumstances, the alleged contravention did not occur.

Yours faithfully,

I will PM you some links to put in the representation, they will redirect to https://imgur.com/a/4zM5p0o https://imgur.com/a/sInUhfA and https://imgur.com/a/XYsLaTA but if you give them the links I'll PM you, we can use the click count to confirm whether they've looked at them or not (obviously do not click on the links I PM you as we want the click count to remain at zero). If they don't click on them, we can then prove they've failed to consider all of the evidence. If they say in the rejection that they've considered all the evidence, we've got them for lying as well.
Title: Re: Ealing Council - Greenford Road Code 32JD Fail proceed in direction shown by arrow blue sign
Post by: Incandescent on May 10, 2024, 09:42:21 pm
Surely I saw and responded to this thread this morning or am I dreaming ?

I saw it and typed in a reply then got waylaid by the wife so didn't send it ! So here is my reply -

The location looks familiar on Google Street View, so I think we've seen this one before fairly recently, but I don't know if the case got to London Tribunals. I think the case centred on the traffic light array and its unsuitability/non -regs-compliance, for the directions/instructions  to be conveyed to the motorist.

https://maps.app.goo.gl/jjeU5pekaKdeswWu7
Title: Ealing Council - Greenford Road Code 32JD Fail proceed in direction shown by arrow blue sign
Post by: abdulsami1 on May 10, 2024, 10:13:19 am
https://www.facebook.com/groups/590815702229179/posts/1119328312711246

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