Free Traffic Legal Advice
Live cases legal advice => Private parking tickets => Topic started by: zunaster on May 09, 2024, 04:21:00 pm
-
That’s the issue. They should not have charged you. All they had to do is tell the unregulated private parking company that the vehicle was hired to you and liability for those charges would have been transferred to you. That would have been the end of it as far as they are concerned. Each of those invoices has information on what to do if the vehicle is hired out.
Once that liability had been transferred, the private parking companies would have re-issued the PCNs in your name and they could have been dealt with by you. Each and every one of those PCNs would have been eventually cancelled because we know that there isn’t a single one of these companies that correctly follows the correct procedure, when it comes to hire cars, to be able to hold the hirer liable.
You wil have to sue Tesla for the money they have taken from you. You need to check the wording of the agreement you signed for anything that says they have the right to simply ignore your rights when it comes to parking charges issued by a private company.
None of those PCNs were any sort of “fine” or “penalty” and no “offences” had been committed. If they were penalties or fines issued by an “authority” such as a council or the police, that would be a different matter.
You would have to sue Tesla in the county court for those payments to be refunded. You could do it on your own but it may be better to get professional legal advice on this. Do you have any car or home insurance policy that includes legal cover?
There is one company that has a good track record for dealing with parking issues that may be able to help as some specialist knowledge about the differences between penalty notices and private parking charges would be required in order to explain this to the court.
Contestor Legal Services (https://www.contestorlegal.co.uk)
Thank you for your detailed response and insights.
I want to note that I have full motor legal protection under my car insurance, which should cover any legal costs associated with this issue.
The fact that the loaner agreement may violate the CRA 2015, specifically section 62, is troubling. Tesla’s actions not only breach the contract but may also be unlawful. I will review the agreement to see if there’s anything that suggests they can bypass my rights regarding parking charges from private companies.
These charges were not official penalties or fines but invoices from a private parking company. Tesla should have transferred liability to me, as the hirer, instead of deducting money from my account. This failure justifies legal action.
I’m also considering disputing these deductions through the Financial Ombudsman Service and pursuing a county court claim to recover the funds. It’s important to hold Tesla accountable and prevent this from happening to others.
Thank you for recommending a company with expertise in private parking issues. I appreciate your guidance and will keep this forum updated on the progress.
-
what did the management Co say? you may have a case against them as well.
They haven't responded to me yet and now the management company’s manager has been replaced. They're refusing to refund either me or Tesla.
-
I didn’t pay by credit card. My car is on Tesla Finance, and they used my debit card to take the payment.
b789 - Does that still allow me to initiate a chargeback, or is there another way to dispute this?
-
Tesla has charged me for the PCNs, which I never authorized.
Sorry if this has been covered or is not relevant, but was the charge taken from a credit card? If so, can a chargeback be made?
-
what did the management Co say? you may have a case against them as well.
-
OP, you posted 3 months ago that you would discuss, implying resolve*, the management company's misunderstanding of your instruction to them to include your loaned vehicle on NCP's exempt list. You were simply awaiting her return from holiday in less than 3 days.
Since when there's been radio silence on this point.
OP, you won't get a solution here because the issue has gone beyond private parking. Were your management company negligent, were you negligent, could you sue whoever has deducted money from your account, does the Consumer Rights Act bear upon the issue and, even if it does, so what unless you are prepared to sue, do you still have a relationship with Tesla, how important is this to you etc. etc?
*-It's highly probable that my management company will handle the invoice from Tesla. If Tesla hadn't already paid for these tickets, they could have potentially been cancelled, as NCP has previously rectified similar mistakes with other residents in my building, resulting in cancelled tickets.
-
That’s the issue. They should not have charged you. All they had to do is tell the unregulated private parking company that the vehicle was hired to you and liability for those charges would have been transferred to you. That would have been the end of it as far as they are concerned. Each of those invoices has information on what to do if the vehicle is hired out.
Once that liability had been transferred, the private parking companies would have re-issued the PCNs in your name and they could have been dealt with by you. Each and every one of those PCNs would have been eventually cancelled because we know that there isn’t a single one of these companies that correctly follows the correct procedure, when it comes to hire cars, to be able to hold the hirer liable.
You wil have to sue Tesla for the money they have taken from you. You need to check the wording of the agreement you signed for anything that says they have the right to simply ignore your rights when it comes to parking charges issued by a private company.
None of those PCNs were any sort of “fine” or “penalty” and no “offences” had been committed. If they were penalties or fines issued by an “authority” such as a council or the police, that would be a different matter.
You would have to sue Tesla in the county court for those payments to be refunded. You could do it on your own but it may be better to get professional legal advice on this. Do you have any car or home insurance policy that includes legal cover?
There is one company that has a good track record for dealing with parking issues that may be able to help as some specialist knowledge about the differences between penalty notices and private parking charges would be required in order to explain this to the court.
Contestor Legal Services (https://www.contestorlegal.co.uk)
-
Yes, but they have charged me. I just found out day before yesterday that they have taken £540 approx from my account.
-
Your dispute is with Tesla. They paid the charges. They shouldn’t have done so.
-
Dear DWMB2 and b789,
Tesla has charged me for the PCNs, which I never authorized. I'm currently pursuing reimbursement from the private parking company, but I've been informed that since Tesla has already paid the fine, they’ve accepted liability, making it difficult to get a refund. How should I proceed?
The first invoice (https://pdfupload.io/docs/916cfd95) was issued on 17 June and second invoice (https://pdfupload.io/docs/64d7cfe6) was issued on 25 June.
The PCNs are attached:
For parking at my residence:
1. 22.03 (https://pdfupload.io/docs/8f420847)
2. 24.03 (https://pdfupload.io/docs/4625bfd8)
3. 01.04 (https://pdfupload.io/docs/2b0efca8)
4. 03.04 (https://pdfupload.io/docs/e7e1b614)
5. 07.04 (https://pdfupload.io/docs/7c603ccf)
6. 09.04
(https://pdfupload.io/docs/a2a8f4dc)
7. 11.04 (https://pdfupload.io/docs/0d46ef76)
For Heathrow drop off:
1. 01.04 (https://pdfupload.io/docs/ae4f5ae5)
-
Take the rest of the weekend off and prepare yourself for Monday.
Either your approach was wrong or the mgmt co. dealt with it wrongly, you need to find out to avoid a repeat.
-
Interestingly, there is no mention of what the keeper should do if the vehicle is a hire car. Whilst I cannot find anything in PoFA that requires the operator to state anything in the NtK about informing the keeper about transferring liability from them to the hirer, it is usually standard practice to advise the keeper (if they happen to be a hire firm) of the ability to do so.
Also, there is nothing in the IPC CoP that requires the operator to make the keeper aware of the requirement to transfer liability to the hirer if the vehicle is out on hire. PoFA 9(2)(e)(ii) (https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2012/9/schedule/4/enacted) does not cover this as it requires the keeper to notify the operator of the name of the "driver". The keeper cannot know the name of the "driver", only the name of the "hirer".
However, by not advising the keeper of the requirement to transfer liability to the hirer, the operator has failed to provide the necessary information in order for them to subsequently pursue the hirer and issue the necessary NtH.
-
Thank you DWMB2, b789 & H C Andersen :)
OP, what are your practical options?
To know what you could do we need to know how urgent and important are these repairs. If you could live with the consequence of them being delayed then pursue the matter with Tesla and NCP.
Back to NCP and the alleged breaches. Clearly, whatever you did to forestall getting a parking charge failed. So pl expand on this.
The manager of my apartment's management company will be back from her holiday on Monday and I've been informed that she will assist me in resolving the NCP tickets. I ensured to inform the management company to exempt the loaner vehicle from fines while it was parked in my bay during my car's repair. It's highly probable that my management company will handle the invoice from Tesla. If Tesla hadn't already paid for these tickets, they could have potentially been cancelled, as NCP has previously rectified similar mistakes with other residents in my building, resulting in cancelled tickets.
I don't quite understand how this can be. Surely, the loaner car was provided so that the owner could use it whilst their own car was being repaired. How long was this loaner car provided for. Surely the parking charges would have taken days if not up to 2 weeks to arrive at Tesla.
Are Tesla trying to hold the owner to ransom by telling them that they will not begin to do the repairs (are they warranty repairs?) until the owner first pays the bill for their error in paying the PCN in breach of the CRA?
So Tesla keep digging a deeper hole for themselves to be extricated from.
I had a loaner vehicle from 4 March to 11 April. The tickets invoice forwarded by Tesla on 4 May pertains to dates 22 March, 24 March and 11 April — all of which have been settled. However, I am uncertain if tickets for other dates were issued.
The repairs are covered under warranty. Fortunately, all concerns, primarily cosmetic (such as marks on the car chair and paintwork) were reported to Tesla upon collecting the car. Tesla is obligated to address these snags at no additional cost. While it has taken over a year to resolve 50% of my concerns, the remaining snags are scheduled to be addressed starting 15 May.
My options:
1. I'll discuss the NCP tickets with my management company on Monday (13 May). Given that they were notified before parking, I'm confident they'll understand the situation. While it's unlikely that NCP will refund the money, if necessary, the management company will need to compensate me to settle Tesla's invoice.
2. Once I ascertain my management company's decision, I intend to reach out to Tesla with the following email:
Their email to me with all PCNs on 4 May:
(https://i.ibb.co/jfD8h4c/Screenshot-2024-05-11-174741.jpg) (https://ibb.co/mT4RJzL)
light (https://emoticoncentral.com/category/light)https://ibb.co/mT4RJzL
The PCN for 22 March, others are in the same format:
(https://i.ibb.co/x6R24BD/GM69-OGJ-Parking-with-no-permit-0912am-100-redacted.jpg) (https://ibb.co/SB96LMP)
Dear Tesla Customer Service Team,
I am writing to you regarding a recent charges I received for a parking violation while I had a loaner vehicle from Tesla for warranty repairs. I would like to dispute these charges and bring to your attention some concerns regarding the terms of the loaner agreement.
Upon reviewing the loaner agreement that I signed before collecting the vehicle, I noticed a clause stating that Tesla reserves the right to pay parking fines or charges on my behalf and pass on these costs, including an additional administrative fee, to me. While I understand the intention behind this clause, I believe it may be in violation of consumer protection laws, specifically the Consumer Rights Act 2015.
Under Section 62 of the CRA 2015, a term in a contract is considered unfair if it causes a significant imbalance in the parties' rights and obligations under the contract to the detriment of the consumer. The clause in question may be deemed unfair as it potentially takes away my right to appeal the parking charge by allowing Tesla to pay it without consulting me or considering my rights.
I want to emphasize that while I acknowledge my responsibility for any legitimate parking charges incurred during my use of the loaner vehicle, I believe Tesla's action of charging me without proper consideration of my rights is unjust and potentially unlawful.
I would like to request that Tesla reconsider the charge and provide clarification on the process followed in handling parking charges incurred while in possession of a loaner vehicle. Additionally, I would appreciate your assistance in addressing any potential discrepancies in the application of the loaner agreement terms.
I am willing to cooperate fully to resolve this matter amicably and trust that Tesla shares the same commitment to fair and transparent customer service.
I look forward to your prompt response and resolution of this issue.
Yours sincerely,
-
OP, what are your practical options?
To know what you could do we need to know how urgent and important are these repairs. If you could live with the consequence of them being delayed then pursue the matter with Tesla and NCP.
Back to NCP and the alleged breaches. Clearly, whatever you did to forestall getting a parking charge failed. So pl expand on this.
-
I don't quite understand how this can be. Surely, the loaner car was provided so that the owner could use it whilst their own car was being repaired. How long was this loaner car provided for. Surely the parking charges would have taken days if not up to 2 weeks to arrive at Tesla.
Are Tesla trying to hold the owner to ransom by telling them that they will not begin to do the repairs (are they warranty repairs?) until the owner first pays the bill for their error in paying the PCN in breach of the CRA?
So Tesla keep digging a deeper hole for themselves to be extricated from.
-
So, you could sue Tesla for the money they have taken from you.
My understanding is that the money has not yet been taken from him - they have simply invoiced him. The complication (at least from a practical 'having access to a working car' point of view) is that I understand from the previous posts that Tesla are refusing to perform the agreed repair works until the OP settles the demanded sums.
-
You have explicitly agreed to Tesla paying and then charging back to you in that agreement.
You agree that Tesla pays any of these tickets or fines on your behalf and passes on these costs including an additional administrative fee of 20 EUR (+ VAT) or the equivalent in your local currency to you at the exchange rate of the day the loaner is returned. In cases of violations, you agree that Tesla reserve the right to share your contact details with any applicable local or national law enforcement
agencies.
However, that is a violation of the CRA 2015 section 62 (https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2015/15/section/62/enacted) in that it is an unfair term if they take away your right to appeal the charge by just paying it without regard to your rights. That failure means that that term is not binding on you, the consumer.
Specifically CRA 62(4) "A term is unfair if, contrary to the requirement of good faith, it causes a significant imbalance in the parties’ rights and obligations under the contract to the detriment of the consumer."
So, you could sue Tesla for the money they have taken from you. This is quite easy to do through the county court (small claims) using MCOL (https://www.moneyclaim.gov.uk/web/mcol/welcome). Whilst you may still be liable for those parking charges (we know nothing about how the driver became liable for them or who the PPC is), it is highly likely that you, the hirer, would never have been liable as 99.99% of all PPC issued NtHs are golden tickets which mean they are 100% winnable along as the drivers identity is never revealed.
All Tesla had to do was simply transfer liability to you, the hirer, by informing the PPC that they, the registered keeper, have hired to vehicle to you, the hirer. They didn't.
-
Based on my analysis the agreement does not explicitly state that Tesla can pay parking fees on your behalf without consulting me while I have a loaner car.
The agreement mentions that I will be liable for any parking fines or tickets imposed on the vehicle during my use, and I agree that Tesla can pay these fines on your behalf. However, it doesn't specify that Tesla can do so without consulting me first or that they can do it voluntarily without my knowledge or consent. If Tesla chooses to pay the fines on my behalf, they will pass on the costs to me, including an additional administrative fee. Therefore, while Tesla can pay parking fines on my behalf, it is likely that they should inform me or seek my authorization before doing so.
-
You will also be liable for any parking, speeding, toll, ferry or other tickets including fines that may be imposed on the Vehicle by competent parties during the term of your use of the Vehicle. You agree that Tesla pays any of these tickets or fines on your behalf and passes on these costs including an additional administrative fee of 20 EUR (+ VAT) or the equivalent in your local currency to you at the exchange rate of the day the loaner is returned
This would seem to be the clause that they will be seeking to rely on.
-
Attached is the invoice from Tesla, I just found out that NCP has issued new ticket for which Tesla is yet to charge me
[attachment deleted by admin]
-
Got the loaner agreement from Tesla, it says:
- Service Loaner Vehicle Agreement Terms and Conditions
- Tesla Motors Limited (“Tesla”) is allowing the undersigned, our customer (“you” or “your”) to make temporary use of the Service Loaner Vehicle referred to above (the “Vehicle”) subject to the following terms and conditions of this loaner agreement (the “Agreement”).
- 1. Tesla is providing you with the Vehicle for your convenience and as an enhancement to your experience as a Tesla owner. For Tesla to extend this courtesy to you and other Tesla owners, Tesla asks that you return the Vehicle on the same day as you receive notice that your vehicle’s service appointment is complete. If you fail to return the Vehicle within this courtesy period, Tesla reserves the right to charge you a fee of 100 EUR (+ VAT) or the equivalent in your local currency for every 24 hours past the deadline at the exchange rate of the day the loaner is returned. Tesla may waive the
same day return to within 24 hours return after you received notice your vehicle's service appointment is complete if your registered address with Tesla is more than 100km from the service centre. If this courtesy is abused in any way, Tesla reserves the right to deny use of a vehicle during future service visits. Subject to availability at your local service centre and to the extent allowed in your country, Tesla may also offer you a Vehicle at the applicable daily rate. - 2. You must be aged at least 18 and have a valid driver’s licence.
- 3. You will not loan the Vehicle to any third party or allow the use of it by any third party, without the prior permission of Tesla. If such permission is granted to you by Tesla, you will procure that any such person that makes use of and/or operates the Vehicle will adhere to your obligations as set out in this Agreement (such person hereinafter an “Authorized Person”).
- 4. You will make use of the Vehicle with due care and diligence. You will, at the reasonable discretion of Tesla, not (i) operate the Vehicle outside the country in which you received it, with the exception where you have received the Vehicle as a result of Roadside Assistance under your vehicle’s warranty; (ii) operate the Vehicle in violation of any applicable laws and regulations; (iii) operate any driver assistance or other systems of the Vehicle in a manner inconsistent with the
instructions and advisories in the Vehicle owner’s manual; (iv) engage in any race, speed test or contest other than with the explicit approval of Tesla; (v) otherwise make use of and/or operate the Vehicle in a negligent manner, which includes commercial use. - 5. Where you receive the Vehicle in connection with Roadside Assistance, you may cross country borders within a member state of the EU/Schengen to continue your already planned travels, and/or to return the loaner to the Service Centre of origin. Member states of the EU/Schengen are Austria, Belgium, Bulgaria, Croatia, Republic of Cyprus, Czech Republic, Denmark, Estonia, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Hungary, Ireland, Italy, Latvia, Lithuania, Luxembourg,
Malta, Netherlands, Norway, Poland, Portugal, Romania, Slovakia, Slovenia, Spain, Sweden, and Switzerland. Cross border travel between Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland is permitted, however leaving the Island of Ireland is not permitted unless pre-authorized by Tesla. This includes requesting permission from Tesla to cross-border travel from the UK to any of the EU/Schengen member states and vice versa. - 6. Subject to your country and local service centre, you agree that the Vehicle may be limited to a maximum speed of 140 km/h (85 mph).
- 7. You acknowledge and agree that Tesla will provide third party auto liability insurance for the Vehicle. This insurance isnot primary, which means that it will be superseded in the event of a claim by any applicable insurance that you carry. In any event, in case of any damage to the Vehicle, you will be liable for such damage up to a maximum of 2,500 EUR or the equivalent in your local currency excluding tow costs, which will be payable by you to Tesla. You will also be liable for damages in excess of this amount if these damages are a result of (i) a breach by you or any Authorized Person of
this Agreement; or more generally; (ii) gross negligence, fraud and/or willful misconduct by you or any Authorized Person. You will also be liable for any parking, speeding, toll, ferry or other tickets including fines that may be imposed on the Vehicle by competent parties during the term of your use of the Vehicle. You agree that Tesla pays any of these tickets or fines on your behalf and passes on these costs including an additional administrative fee of 20 EUR (+ VAT) or the equivalent in your local currency to you at the exchange rate of the day the loaner is returned. In cases of violations,
you agree that Tesla reserve the right to share your contact details with any applicable local or national law enforcement
agencies. - 8. Report any damages to the vehicle upon departure by taking photos and sending them through Tesla App. Report any new damages by sending pictures through Tesla App while under vehicle loan period.
- 9. You will not take the Vehicle more than 200 km (125 mi) from where you received it, and you will limit daily use to less than 320 km (200 mi). If you have received the Vehicle in connection with Roadside Assistance, you will not take the Vehicle more than 800 km (500 mi) from the Service Centre of origin, or as further agreed between you and Tesla in writing. A fee of 0.50 EUR or the equivalent in your local currency per kilometre (mile) will be charged for every kilometre (mile) driven over the daily usage limit of 320 km (200 mi). These mileage thresholds may be amended or waived at Tesla’s discretion.
- 10. You will be liable for the costs for the repair or replacement of any flat tyre during your use of the Vehicle, it being understood that you may contact Tesla to provide transportation of the Vehicle to the nearest service centre or tyre shop up to 80 km (50 mi) from your location. You are fully liable for any transportation and any related costs in case the Vehicle runs out of charge.
- 11. You will return the Vehicle in the same condition as you received it, fair wear and tear excepted. The Vehicle must be returned with a minimal 50% battery charge. A fee of 0.95 EUR (+ VAT) or the equivalent in your local currency will be charged for every 1% under 50% battery charge at the exchange rate of the day the loaner is returned. These charge thresholds may be amended or waived at Tesla’s discretion.
- 12. The Vehicle must include any accessory, such as the tow hook, safety kit, parcel shelf, phone charging dock, vehicle charging connectors, dashcam USB, and charging adapters.
- 13. Tesla is committed to providing a safe and clean Vehicle for our customers. You agree to keep the Vehicle clean, and not to use tobacco, vapor products, or keep pets in the Vehicle. If Tesla determines the Vehicle requires extensive cleaning because of your use, you acknowledge that Tesla may charge you a 100 EUR (+ VAT) cleaning fee or the equivalent in your local currency at the exchange rate of the day the loaner is returned.
- 14. You acknowledge and agree that the Vehicle is equipped with systems that collect data regarding the performance, usage, operation, and condition of the Vehicle (including speed and distance, battery use and charging, safety-related data and camera images, last known location, and use of driver assistance systems by you). While Tesla does not actively
monitor your use of the Vehicle, Tesla may use this data to investigate any accident or reported issue regarding the Vehicle. - 15. With respect to this Agreement, Tesla processes personal data in accordance with Tesla's Customer Privacy Policy inaddition to the processing activities described in this Agreement. The most recent version of Tesla's Customer Privacy
- Policy is made available on Tesla’s website: http://www.tesla.com/about/legal#privacy-statement.
By signing electronically in the signature box below, I am agreeing to be legally bound by the Service Loaner - Vehicle Agreement terms set out above.
- Agreed and Accepted by the Customer
- _____________________________ _____________________________
-
Whilst that may appear on their website, it all hinges on what is actually written in the signed agreement. The wording above does appear to be sufficient to cover PCNs. Fair enough.
Does their agreement also allow them to pay the charge and charge it back to the hirer? From the wording shown, it appears to only state that Tesla will refer those “competent” parties back to the hirer, which, in the case of an unregulated private parking company, is 99.99% likely to result in a “golden ticket” NtH.
-
The loan car agreement they still publish on their website:-
You will also be liable for any parking, speeding or other tickets or fines that may be imposed on the Vehicle by competent parties during the term of your use of the Vehicle; Tesla may refer such parties to you if necessary to enforce such tickets or fines.
It doesn't give them any right for an admin charge. I imagine they would argue a parking invoice from a private company is covered.
However, that would impinge upon your right to dispute the invoice. That could be unlawful in terms of unfair contract terms (assuming it was a loan to you as an individual not your employer or similar).
-
OP, would you pl clarify a few points pl.
You took your car into a garage for repair.
Whose garage? A third party e.g. a Tesla main dealer etc. or what?
They, the dealer, provided you with a courtesy car.
You parked this in 'your' space where you lived.
This space was controlled* by NCP who, on finding a car other than the one which had a permit/was on their exempt list, issued a parking charge notice to the registered keeper.
You say you 'had informed NCP to exempt the car..', but whether they acknowledged this we don't know.
The sort of arrangement you're describing happens in different ways. Sometimes you would be the hirer with Tesla agreeing to foot the bill for courtesy as well as repairs or Tesla makes all arrangements and simply tells you when and where.
We cannot make assumptions here and your account doesn't deal with the nitty- gritty detail. So, before we get Tesla in our crosshairs would you pl clarify who is who in this saga.
-
You should also check whether Tesla (or whoever was arranging the "loan" vehicle) is a member of the BVRLA.
-
The terms of your agreement with Tesla will be key here, without them it's rather difficult to advise on next steps.
Copies of the PCNs they received might also be helpful.
I'd be surprised if said agreement made you liable for private parking charges they voluntarily paid, when there is an established process through which they could have transfered liability to you as the hirer of the vehicle.
-
My vehicle underwent repairs at Tesla to address pre-collection snags, and I returned the loaner vehicle on April 11th. However, on May 5th, I received an invoice from Tesla for PCNs already resolved by them. Despite returning the vehicle on April 11th, I am now faced with these PCNs. These fines were incorrectly issued within the building car garage where I reside. I had informed NPC to exempt the loaner car parked in my bay during repairs. I find this situation unacceptable. Tesla has billed me £245 for three PCNs (inclusive of administrative fees), and NPC has informed me of a fourth PCN, which Tesla is likely to bill me for soon. I would have disputed these PCNs with NPC as I was parking in my bay, and NPC was informed of the loaner vehicle prior to me parking in my building.
I will be writing to Tesla to provide me with a copy of the contract I signed at the time of collecting the loaner car. Unfortunately, I cannot speak to their financial services and can only reach them via voicemail or email. I have pending repairs with them on May 15th, and Tesla has indicated that these won't proceed until I settle the invoice.
Can you please advise me on next steps?