Free Traffic Legal Advice
Live cases legal advice => Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) => Topic started by: unknowndriver on May 07, 2024, 09:57:26 pm
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@unknowndriver Transport for London have come to the rescue!
It was held in Transport for London, R (on the application of) v London Tribunals (Environment and Traffic Adjudicators) [2023] EWHC 2889 (Admin) (https://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWHC/Admin/2023/2889.pdf) that double red lines require an upright sign for CCTV enforcement to be permitted (see paragraph 17).
In this case as there is no upright sign, the definition of a red route found in regulation 11 of The Civil Enforcement of Road Traffic Contraventions (Approved Devices, Charging Guidelines and General Provisions) (England) Regulations 2022 (https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2022/71/regulation/11) is not met, so service of a postal PCN is a procedural impropriety.
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I have submitted an appeal as to the advice you have given
I shall come back when I get a response
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We always suggest that representations are submitted, rather than just 'coughing-up' straightaway. So submit reps on the basis of a minimal stop of less than 10 seconds to check route, due to doubt. Post up their response when you get it, and then further investigations can be done during the re-offered discount period.
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Thank you for your reply
I believe today is the last day to submit reps within the discounted period.
I do also think that I may just have to pay, I think my mum stopped for those 9 seconds to confirm the route and then turned around.
Hopefully someone is able to help soon otherwise I might just chance it with the appeal and see what happens
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Video shows you stopped for about 9 seconds that doesn't seem verry long, but is probably not what an adjudicator would consider de minimis. You also went onto the pavement, so could have been walloped for that instead, it being an offence to park off-carriageway in London since the 70s.
To be frank, the contravention itself would seem to be made out, but that is not necessarily game over. Experts on here are very much up-to-speed on camera approvals and so on and can find arguments to support an appeal to the adjudicators. Remember that the council have to obey the law just like you have to, so if they err in doing so they cannot enforce the PCN, it's as simple as that.
So wait a bit to see what others say but don't miss the deadline to submit representations on the PCN. We usually always recommend submitting representations as councils can err when responding. If you submit reps within the discount period, the discount is usually always re-offered when they respond by rejecting those reps, so you lose nothing.
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Hello all,
Sorry i am posting this late, have not been home past week and a bit so catching up now, i believe i only have two or so days to appeal this within the 14 day period.
My mother drove the car with my sister, they thought the maps was taking them the wrong way, my sister re routed when they got on the main road and maps then pointed to drive in the opposite direction they came from. I realise its also a red route and there are some issues with them but not sure if that make any difference in this instance.
Have attached the PCN
Can anything be done about it or shall we pay up?
Thanks for your time
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