Free Traffic Legal Advice
Live cases legal advice => Speeding and other criminal offences => Topic started by: Niche on May 03, 2024, 12:57:08 pm
-
I have a bilateral knee disability which clearly affects pressure applied to pedals down a hill and my reaction times due to pain and ADHD are little slower than the average person
But you had come through Elstree village which is clearly a 30mph area, and were still in a 30mph area when you were caught, it was not a question of suddenly seeing a 30mph sign, or the road suddenly getting steeper, more suddenly seeing a camera van. Had you been observing the limit before you would have had no problem, you cannnot expect any sympathy from a court over this, quite apart from the fact that going to court with a defence of being physically unable to drive within a speed limit is a fundamentally very poor ides.
-
I’ve got a NIP
Please help!!!
Difficult as that place is on a hill and I’m on the borderline of speed limit rule to prosecute
I’m 35 on 30 but the road changes to 40 not long before I have to slow down
Don’t recall who was driving - can’t see in photograph either, have been victim of scam before so if that’s a ringer I don’t know.
I’ve noticed no signature on document printed or signed
Obviously want to resolve successfully
Any procedural issues I can use to dispute
I am the registered keeper but the incident is not of my recollection photos don’t help to identify
Other driver is at work proof available
Ringer issue plausible if Previous victim of crime /scam?
And don't forget the limit starts at the sign, that is not where you start to slow down ...
-
No cameras found on this street.
This offence was man handed (unseen)
From looking at the evidence I can see vehicle is on a fairly steep road caught at 35 and soon after at 32 as driver recognised vehicle was driving faster than anticipated down the hill
Road is called hill south.
I have a bilateral knee disability which clearly affects pressure applied to pedals down a hill and my reaction times due to pain and ADHD are little slower than the average person
I feel man handled speed fine here is quite unfair can I challenge this at all to my defence as having some disability adjustments?
Also it’s evident I did slow down immediately after being pulled faster down hill.
Surely they have chosen this spot to advantage themselves for giving fines and penalties?
Any other people shared useful helpful info about this specific location?
Driver is myself with both mental and physical conditions- all details have been now fully reflected on and gathered and I’m now considering whether to challenge this on man handed location unfairness and the fact I did slow down without knowledge of any cameras or man.
If there is a way to defend this I’d like to try as I would like to avoid points
I’ll post pictures
You can avoid points by taking the course.
If your conditions affect your ability to drive within limits then it will be a notifiable condition to DVLA and your ability to drive may be withdrawn until such time that you are free of those conditions. For this reason, I suggest not trying that as mediation or defence.
Just take the course and drive a little slower than the speed limit so that you can be in the new speed limit at the post.
-
Those are not mitigating they are aggravating. You are essentially admitting you do not have the ability to control your vehicle's speed while driving. You don't want to be getting up in court and using that as your defence.
Where the camera van was parked is irrelevant. If you potentially want to turn this into more than a speed awareness course then by all means take it to court and run with it. You may get a sympathetic bench who also have knee injuries.
So you recall that you were driving, the location and the reason why you had crept over the limit as opposed to believing the vehicle was a clone? You earlier stated that the vehicle was with someone else at work in Finchley. What changed? The law will not make exemptions for you disability when it comes to speeding. You will receive the same penalty as the Finchley worker would.
-
Have you responded to the request for driver's details yet? You received it more than two months ago and had 28 days to reply. When you last posted before today (in May) you seemed to have little idea of who was driving and no recollection of the occasion. If you haven't responded by now I imagine the police might be in the process of prosecuting you for failing to do so.
Everything you have mentioned actually aggravates the offence (i.e. makes it worse). If you have disabilities which affect your driving you should declare them to the DVLA. If, as you suggest, you are unable to apply the brakes quickly in the event of an emergency (such as when you see a speed camera whilst you are exceeding the speed limit or when a child runs out from behind a parked car) they may ask for a medical report and, as above, perhaps decide they will not allow you to drive.
If you responded in time naming yourself as the driver you should have received the offer of a course by now. If you haven't you should contact the police asap and try to persuade them not to prosecute you for failing to do so.
-
I have a bilateral knee disability which clearly affects pressure applied to pedals down a hill and my reaction times due to pain and ADHD are little slower than the average person
I feel man handled speed fine here is quite unfair can I challenge this at all to my defence as having some disability adjustments?
Really not advisable, you're effectively saying you're unfit to drive.
-
I have a bilateral knee disability which clearly affects pressure applied to pedals down a hill and my reaction times due to pain and ADHD are little slower than the average person
.....
If there is a way to defend this I’d like to try as I would like to avoid points
I’ll post pictures
At 35 you would normally get a course offer (if you haven't done one in the last 3 years). No points that way. You have mentioned no points that are in any way relevant to a defence (though you are of course free to plead not guilty and give it a go. Expensive vent though).
Since your disabilities affect your ability to drive they need to be declared to the DVLA.
"We will let you off offences because you are incapable" is not a potential response.
More likely is a medically restricted license. Or possibly even none.
-
Can’t post pic upload server is full
Please see pic above posted previously showing speed 35 down slope and then 32
-
No cameras found on this street.
This offence was man handed (unseen)
From looking at the evidence I can see vehicle is on a fairly steep road caught at 35 and soon after at 32 as driver recognised vehicle was driving faster than anticipated down the hill
Road is called hill south.
I have a bilateral knee disability which clearly affects pressure applied to pedals down a hill and my reaction times due to pain and ADHD are little slower than the average person
I feel man handled speed fine here is quite unfair can I challenge this at all to my defence as having some disability adjustments?
Also it’s evident I did slow down immediately after being pulled faster down hill.
Surely they have chosen this spot to advantage themselves for giving fines and penalties?
Any other people shared useful helpful info about this specific location?
Driver is myself with both mental and physical conditions- all details have been now fully reflected on and gathered and I’m now considering whether to challenge this on man handed location unfairness and the fact I did slow down without knowledge of any cameras or man.
If there is a way to defend this I’d like to try as I would like to avoid points
I’ll post pictures
-
There is no requirement for a NIP to be signed.
For an s. 172 requirement to be lawful, it must be issued by or on behalf of the Chief Officer of Police. It is perhaps arguable that the authority must be indicated on the notice so that the recipient can know that it is lawful. In Arnold v DPP it was argued by Mr Arnold that the s. 172 notice was defective as it did not contain a wet ink signature, but merely a printed or described signature. The Divisional Court held that a described signature was fine as anything that is intended to be taken as a signature constitutes a signature. It is possible to infer from the judgment that a signature of some description is required, although I would suggest that you would require a particularly sympathetic bench to accept such an inference.
At the risk of appearing arrogant, I would be amazed if anyone had any further advice regarding the notice being unsigned, and I have shard as much as I understand. If you want to look into this, search BAILII for "Arnold v DPP" and have a read.
As others have indicated, there appears to be much that you don't recall from an incident a week before. Other than the unsigned notice, for any of it to form a defence, you would need to prove the relevant point on the balance of probabilities. Whether or not you are sure that it is all above board is in itself utterly irrelevant.
-
I will provide keepers details but it’s difficult to recollect when this happened.
As well as being the Registered Keeper, were you "the person keeping the vehicle" at the time? If so, you have a duty to provide the driver's details. If not you must provide any information that you have which will help identify the driver. So which is it? Either way you must comply with that request. You know when it happened as you've been given the details,
Second named driver was at work in Finchley at that time.
That would seem to make your task of identifying the driver somewhat easier.
Can the speeding fine be challenged with the speed being at the lower limit? What are the successful appeals that can be made for this low limit prosecution?
What lower limit? The limit is 30mph. The car was detected allegedly doing 35mph. 35 is more than 30. if the driver (whoever that was) wants to defend the charge on the basis that he or she was not speeding the court will have to be convinced that the car was travelling at no more than 30mph. However, unless you identify the driver the speeding issue is irrelevant. The police currently do not know who was driving so they cannot take action against anybody for that offence until you tell them.
I see no mileage in the lack of signature either on the NIP or the request for driver's details.
You seem to be intent on converting what will be the offer of a course for the driver into a far more serious outcome for you. If you fail to identify the driver you will face a charge which, if you are convicted, will see a hefty fine, six points and insurance grief for the following five years. So again, what efforts have you made to establish who was driving?
-
... I will provide keepers details but it’s difficult to recollect when this happened.
Second named driver was at work in Finchley at that time...
What do you mean by you "will provide keepers details"? You need to identify the driver
You've said you are the Registered Keeper. Are you saying that someone else had possession of the car at the time of the alleged offence, but that you don't know if they or some other person was drivving?
-
Even if you do decide to challenge by eventually pleading not guilty you still need to name the driver or you commit a more serious offence than the driver did.
-
... Can the speeding fine be challenged with the speed being at the lower limit? What are the successful appeals that can be made for this low limit prosecution?...
What makes you think you could challenge being prosecuted at 35mph?
The speed limit is 30mph. Enforcement starts at 35mph so they've already given you over 4mph for free.
-
I am wondering if the NIP stands if there is no signature printed or signed?
I will provide keepers details but it’s difficult to recollect when this happened.
Second named driver was at work in Finchley at that time.
Can the speeding fine be challenged with the speed being at the lower limit? What are the successful appeals that can be made for this low limit prosecution?
Any procedural issues to raise for them to drop it or known issues with the area ie camera sensitivity or poorly displayed signage?
Many thanks
Someone more qualified can comment on the signature, though I'm sure if it was an issue New Judge would have picked it up.
As for the 'lower limit', it's there precisely to remove any doubt: it's 10% over the limit, plus 2 mph.
The only way you can 'challenge' it is to ignore any offers from the police and to go to court. Since you haven't (so far) mentioned any possible defence, that would be a foolish decision, potentially costing you ten times as much.
-
I am wondering if the NIP stands if there is no signature printed or signed?
I will provide keepers details but it’s difficult to recollect when this happened.
Second named driver was at work in Finchley at that time.
Can the speeding fine be challenged with the speed being at the lower limit? What are the successful appeals that can be made for this low limit prosecution?
Any procedural issues to raise for them to drop it or known issues with the area ie camera sensitivity or poorly displayed signage?
Many thanks
-
Difficult as that place is on a hill and I’m on the borderline of speed limit rule to prosecute
I’m 35 on 30...
35 is not "on the borderline". It's the lowest speed at which enforcement action is taken
....so if that’s a ringer I don’t know.
Does that look like your vehicle? Is it somewhere it might have been at the relevant time? It was only just over a week ago.
Obviously want to resolve successfully
By "successfully" do you mean without you or anyone else receiving any penalty?
I am the registered keeper but the incident is not of my recollection photos don’t help to identify
Other driver is at work proof available
Proof of what? You're not being asked to prove where anybody was. You're being asked to provide the details of the person who was driving that vehicle at that time and location. You need to decide firstly whether the photographs actually show your vehicle and if they do, you need to set about establishing who was driving it. As above, if you can't you will have to convince a court that you could not. What steps have you taken so far to find out who was driving? If you simply turn up in court saying the incident is not of your recollection you will face conviction and six points.
-
You say it may be a clone, but realistically if you live in the area and the car was probably on that road that day then it’s more than likely your car I’d suggest.
The onus is on you to determine who was driving and to excercise reasonable diligence in finding out, otherwise you’ll turn what would be a speed awareness course for the driver into 6 points for yourself. It’s not impossible to use the ‘reasonable diligence’ defence but not easy (or everyone would do it).
-
Any particular question(s)?
-
That’s a pic on the road
[attachment deleted by admin]
-
Some documents
[attachment deleted by admin]
-
I’ve got a NIP
Please help!!!
Difficult as that place is on a hill and I’m on the borderline of speed limit rule to prosecute
I’m 35 on 30 but the road changes to 40 not long before I have to slow down
Don’t recall who was driving - can’t see in photograph either, have been victim of scam before so if that’s a ringer I don’t know.
I’ve noticed no signature on document printed or signed
Obviously want to resolve successfully
Any procedural issues I can use to dispute
I am the registered keeper but the incident is not of my recollection photos don’t help to identify
Other driver is at work proof available
Ringer issue plausible if Previous victim of crime /scam?
[attachment deleted by admin]