Free Traffic Legal Advice
Live cases legal advice => Private parking tickets => Topic started by: hiKwah on May 03, 2024, 09:39:38 am
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OP, from the lease's legal terminology and format..
with the residential use and occupation of the property and the Parking Space
The right to park one roadworthy taxed and MOT'd vehicle not exceeding two and one half tonnes gross unladen weight in the Parking Space
From your freehand intro..
The only areas where parking (even then, not directly, just a reference to a parking space)
Spot the difference.
The lease refers to 'Parking Space' whereas you refer to 'parking space'.
The capitalisation of the 'P' and 'S' must surely mean that it's a defined term in the lease. So, please look for this, maybe in a Schedule, Annex or plan of the site, in each case this would be referred to in the main body of the lease.
Your lease is pretty standard:
What you hold as part of the property leased by you (I suggest this includes Parking Space);
Your general rights and obligations as regard use of the other, common, parts of the site;
Your general obligations to the landlord in order to maintain good order within the site.
It would also likely make reference to how amendments to the agreement (a lease is a form of contract/agreement) may be effected and to how disputes and breaches are to be resolved and we should see this as well.
My take on these is that the landlord has contracted with a company (property management) to discharge their responsibilities to you under the lease and to manage and oversee the general maintenance and functioning of the site. Such a company is the agent of the landlord, not independent, their authority is circumscribed by the terms of each lease and your obligations remain unaltered other than as provided for under the lease. Use of a private parking contractor is often sensible in order to protect your and other residents' rights. The problems come when a naive property company contracts with a money-grubbing contractor(look, no fee!) without thinking of the potential ramifications.
Your use of a permit is an administrative measure by which those who are not permitted to park may be identified and thereby assist the PPC and mgmt company discharge their obligations. It cannot alter the terms of your lease.
Anyway, pl provide the missing references within your lease to Parking Space.
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Do you think that your lease requires you to fetter your rights to a third party who can then sue you in court? Do you think that your lease requires you to display a permit to park in your parking space or do you just do so out of courtesy?
At any time since you signed your lease, has there been a Tribunal hearing to amend your lease according to the requirements of the Landlord and Tenants Act 1987, section 37.5(a) or (b)?
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Anyway, so that we keep in line with forum rules and regular process of analysis pl also post the back of the PCN.
Also, pl advise whether the 'property management company'* was appointed by freeholder or whether it's run by and comprised of resident representatives.
*- there's not a one-size-fits-all 'property management company' albeit that the term does tend to be used by posters generically.
Thanks for the reply,
Edited the original post with the reverse of the PCN.
The property management company (Ringleys) in this case was appointed by the freeholder.
In response to slapdash;
The only areas where parking (even then, not directly, just a reference to a parking space) is mentioned is under Rights granted and obligations and restrictions - if im overstepping with the amount of information here let me know;
1. The right for the tenant and all persons authorized by him (in common with all other persons entitled to the right) at all times for reasonable purposes connected with the residential use and occupation of the property and the Parking Space only to go pass and repass with or without vehicles (as appropriate) over and along the building internal common parts and Estate common parts over which the tenant requires rights in connection with the use and enjoyment of the property and parking space which are contained in the estate.
2; The right to park one roadworthy taxed and MOT'd vehicle not exceeding two and one half tonnes gross unladen weight in the Parking Space
for obligations and restrictions;
To not allow any commercial industrial or any un-roadworthy/untaxed/un-MOT'd vehicle to stand in any space within the estate.
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It is of course the OP's decision what course of action to take, but my view is nearly always that an appeal should set out why they believe the money is not owed, and show that they are well-informed and up for a fight. If they want to make clear they're prepared to defend the matter in court, they can say as such in the appeal.
I've personally never been a fan of the MSE template appeal, but that's a discussion for elsewhere.
Aside from any appeals, as mentioned already, gathering information on the lease, and then seeking to raise the issue with the landlord and/or management company will also be worthwhile.
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It lets the PPC know that they are getting advice on how to deal with the PCN and are not about to capitulate at the first threat from a DRA. PCM are an IPC operator and whilst it is not unheard of, an IAS appeal has about a 4% chance of being successful.
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The fact that they won't accept the appeal does not, in my view, mean that said appeal should not at least raise the issues the OP would be likely to rely on in any future defence.
I'd be of the view that a tailored appeal that shows he knows his position is better than the MSE template 'appeal' that doesn't actually state any grounds upon which the appellant is disputing the charge.
If the allegation concerns a PDT machine
It doesn't, the notice says as much, and given this took place where the OP lives he knows this, so this seems like an odd sentence to include.
Likewise the point around overstays.
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As this is a Notice to Driver (NtD) from an IPC member, you should wait for a Notice to Keeper (NtK) to arrive in the post and then challenge once as the KEEPER, not as the driver, using the template appeal, as shown below.
As there is no appeal with the IAS worth trying, you will get a rejection anyway, so you may as well leave it and see if they issue a NtK and let them apply to the DVLA.
Re PCN number: XXXXXXX
I dispute your 'parking charge', as the keeper of the vehicle. I deny any liability or contractual agreement and I will be making a complaint about your predatory conduct to your client landowner.
There will be no admissions as to who was driving and no assumptions can be drawn. Since your PCN is a vague template, I require an explanation of the allegation and your evidence. You must include a close up actual photograph of the sign you contend was at the location on the material date as well as your images of the vehicle.
If the allegation concerns a PDT machine, the data supplied in response to this appeal must include the record of payments made - showing partial VRNs - and an explanation of the reason for the PCN, because your Notice does not explain it.
If the allegation involves an alleged overstay of minutes, your evidence must include the actual grace period agreed by the landowner.
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Not disputing the above is not my fault, it is; however - had another angle of approach to try as the PCN could be appealed based on the below;
That's not the issue! It's whether the creditor could hold the keeper liable in lieu of the driver's(who they do not know) failure to pay.
So change your posts so that nothing reads or hints at the identity of the driver in the first person i.e. it's always the driver or they.
Once you've done this I'll amend this post.
Anyway, so that we keep in line with forum rules and regular process of analysis pl also post the back of the PCN.
Also, pl advise whether the 'property management company'* was appointed by freeholder or whether it's run by and comprised of resident representatives.
*- there's not a one-size-fits-all 'property management company' albeit that the term does tend to be used by posters generically.
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It's likely one of those.
It depends on what your lease says, and how the parking company were brought in. It also depends on whether the space is part of your title.
Time to get your lease out.
Many mangement cos will tend to ignore the quirements for lease variance on the questionable basis that the lease gives them the right to impose reasonable regulations. What does it say about parking.
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Hi, more of a request to see if its actually worth contesting or not.
Received the attached PCN from Parking control management, the drivers permit was in the cars dash but fell down into the footwells so was not visible following a windscreen replacement. PCN Attached.
Not disputing the above is not the drivers fault; however - had another angle of approach to try as the PCN could be appealed based on the below;
I bought a leasehold flat back in 2020 and still live here to this day. At the time this block of flats I live in effectively has a private car park but with no parking management company. On the lease this specifies the bay that I am assigned which I park in, but there is no mention of a parking management company or anything to display a permit, just that a roadworthy vehicle can be parked in that bay.
PCM is then brought in around 2021, we have a letter/email sent out from our property management company about how we're getting permits as PCM is being brought in to "control" the parking.
Complied with the permit requirement for the time being up until now.
I don't know if I can appeal it based on my lease not specifying it, or if that would involve going more down the route of solicitor/lawyer action.
yay/nay?
Edit: attached back of the PCN.
[attachment deleted by admin]