Free Traffic Legal Advice
Live cases legal advice => Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) => Topic started by: raddic on April 30, 2024, 09:01:07 pm
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Outcome (https://drive.google.com/file/d/12OJqBX4Sxr31lHSPMKdr5anlFMQj34kK/view).
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@raddic I'll drop you a PM but you should 100% not pay this, the council is trying to take you for a ride.
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Hi @cp8759
I was too quick to celebrate..
Today I received a NOTICE OF REJECTION in the post.
You can see it here: https://pdfupload.io/docs/d1eff4ac
What is my next move, and do I have the time for it, bearing in mind I'll be leaving the country permanently on the 15th of August.
Many thanks!
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@cp8759
I would've just paid up..
Don't even think about it.
I see no suggestion that you were more than 50cm from the kerb in the first place.
I won a case for the same allegation just this afternoon.
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@cp8759
Done.
I've submitted the formal representation form online, selecting the "The contravention did not occur" option.
I received a confirmation email almost immediately, notifying my of my ref number and that it could take up to 56 days for a response.
I just want to express my gratitude towards you @cp8759 and to the existence of this forum.
This is the first time I'm doing anything like this and if not for you, I would've just paid up..
Thank you!
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@raddic you will need to either call the council to get the code, or send representations as a letter in the post to: London Borough of Newham, Parking Correspondence, PO Box 71575, London, E6 9LY
If sending a letter by post, you may want to consider using special delivery to ensure no further issues.
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@raddic if the PCN is back at £130, then the council must have issued a new NTO. You don't need to physically receive it in order to make representations, just go to https://parking.newham.gov.uk/ and submit a representation saying that the alleged contravention did not occur. That's literally all it needs to say, one line is enough.
Take a screenshot of the confirmation screen once done.
@cp8759 The website requires a web code, which I don't have, in order to submit a formal representation.
On the site there are two options. One is "Start informal challenge now" and the other is "Start formal representation now".
The latter requiring said web code (You will require the web code to make representation, which can be found on the notice you have received under the section labelled making representations > online)
[attachment deleted by admin]
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@raddic if the PCN is back at £130, then the council must have issued a new NTO. You don't need to physically receive it in order to make representations, just go to https://parking.newham.gov.uk/ and submit a representation saying that the alleged contravention did not occur. That's literally all it needs to say, one line is enough.
Take a screenshot of the confirmation screen once done.
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Hi @cp8759,
Apparently it was reverted back on the 17th.
They didn't provide any explanation as to why I wasn't notified of that.
There is repeated mention throughout the thread of you not receiving various notices?
Why is that?
Notification from TEC will have been sent to whatever address you used on the TE9 so was that correct?
Likewise any new NtO issued by Newham.
Wish I knew the answer to that.
Address is correct.
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Hi @cp8759,
Apparently it was reverted back on the 17th.
They didn't provide any explanation as to why I wasn't notified of that.
There is repeated mention throughout the thread of you not receiving various notices?
Why is that?
Notification from TEC will have been sent to whatever address you used on the TE9 so was that correct?
Likewise any new NtO issued by Newham.
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Hi @cp8759,
Just came off the phone with TEC, they confirmed that it has been reverted and advised I should contact Newham Council for any further actions.
Apparently it was reverted back on the 17th.
They didn't provide any explanation as to why I wasn't notified of that.
I checked the council website(should've done that much earlier...) and I can see it's back to 130£.
Could you advise what the next steps are?
You mentioned something about me giving you a letter of authority. I've never done that before so could you let me know how I can do that?
Hopefully there's enough time left to act.
Many thanks!
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I'd be minded to call TEC and confirm the new form has been received and everything is in order. Your second email was still "in-time", but you cannot afford any more mishaps.
Such a nightmare getting in touch with these people!
Just been on hold for a total of 2 hours.
In the morning I was on hold for 35 min until someone answered, then I couldn't hear anything, silence. They ended up hanging up after 10 seconds.
In the afternoon I stayed on hold for over 1:30 hrs until my turn came, then the exact same thing. Silence. Nobody speaking, not even a sound.
The second time around I was talking and let them know that I cannot hear.
I read out my PCN number to them and slowly explained the situation.
I believe someone might have been listening as they didn't hang up, even though I couldn't hear them, for a good 2-3 minutes, until I hung up.
I'll try again tomorrow...
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I'd be minded to call TEC and confirm the new form has been received and everything is in order. Your second email was still "in-time", but you cannot afford any more mishaps.
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Going by the guide, I should ignore the letter, given that I have the acknowledgement email from TEC, correct?
Well if TEC has already received a correctly filled in TE9 form (which is what you've told us), there's no reason to send it again.
If you want to be 100% safe, you could always call up TEC on Monday and ask them to confirm everything is in order and the TE9 will be processed in due course.
Sorry, I've missed the reply notification.
So here's what happened after I emailed them the TE9 form and received the automatic acknowledgement on 10/05.
On 14/05 I received an email reply from a TEC rep, informing me that I've completed the form incorrectly.
Quoting
"We can’t process your forms as they haven’t been completed properly.
Why we couldn’t process your forms:
● The forms can only be completed and signed by the registered keeper of the vehicle at the time of the offence. If you were not the registered keeper at that time, please contact the Local / Charging Authority who issued the Penalty Charge Notice.
We do not keep invalid applications. Please return all appeal forms together, along with any supporting documents/evidence."
What I did wrong is sign and print my fiance's name on the statement of truth witness section at the end of the form, thinking I needed a witness to confirm my statement.
So I filled out the form again, signing and printing my own name everywhere.. and I emailed it as a reply, receiving an automated acknowledgement again.
I haven't heard anything since.
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Going by the guide, I should ignore the letter, given that I have the acknowledgement email from TEC, correct?
Well if TEC has already received a correctly filled in TE9 form (which is what you've told us), there's no reason to send it again.
If you want to be 100% safe, you could always call up TEC on Monday and ask them to confirm everything is in order and the TE9 will be processed in due course.
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You should have had an automated acknowledgment within a minutes or so, if you haven't got it you might want to send it again.
I did receive the automated acknowledgement immediately, but I also received an ORDER OF RECOVERY letter with the TE9 form attached to it, shortly after.
Going by the guide, I should ignore the letter, given that I have the acknowledgement email from TEC, correct?
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You should have had an automated acknowledgment within a minutes or so, if you haven't got it you might want to send it again.
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@raddic please note I have been informed the debt registration fee has now increased to £10, so when the debt is registered the amount due will go up to £205 rather than £204.
Also when the debt is registered please could you check the amount due on the council website? If it turns out that this is correctly shown on the Newham website I will update the guide accordingly.
Hi @cp8759 I just spoke with TEC on the phone, the debt has been registered. I also checked the Newham Council website and it is correctly shown there too.
I filled out the form and emailed it. Now waiting for the automated reply.
Many thanks for your help!
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@cp8759
Thanks for the heads-up!
I am checking the Newham Council website as well.
Will update this thread with all my observations.
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@raddic please note I have been informed the debt registration fee has now increased to £10, so when the debt is registered the amount due will go up to £205 rather than £204.
Also when the debt is registered please could you check the amount due on the council website? If it turns out that this is correctly shown on the Newham website I will update the guide accordingly.
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Well this is a truly ridiculous PCN which we can easily beat on appeal, but first we need to get things procedurally back on track.
@raddic please read the guide at https://www.ftla.uk/announcements/charge-certificate-cases-under-the-traffic-management-act-2004-no-original-pcn/ and confirm whether everything you need to do is clear. It doesn't matter where in the world you are as long as you have access to the internet, the process can be completed from anywhere.
Once that part is done and the PCN has reverted to £130 on the council website we'll know it's an the NTO stage again, at that point you can give me a letter of authority and I can sort out the representations on your behalf.
Wow! Thank you!
You just made things very simple for me and I can't thank you enough.
I read through the guide and everything is clear. I only have a couple of doubts, the guide says I am not the 'Applicant', does that mean I should leave the Applicant field blank or enter the name of the Enforcement Authority there? As far as I understand it's the latter.
My other doubt is with the waiting a week after the 14 day period and making sure the debt has been registered with TEC, and that's only because you didn't mention it in your post. The 14 days have passed a few days ago, on the 29th of April.
Do I need to wait a week or am I good to proceed with the form?
Many thanks for the straightforward answer!
You are not good to proceed with submission of your WS until they have registered the debt at the Traffic Enforcement Centre. When they do this, the amount owing increases to £195 + £9 = £204. The £9 is the TEC registration fee. They also then send out an Order for Recovery, but as cp8759 says, you don't need to receive this, you just need to know when the debt is registered and that is known when the amount owing reaches £204.
They may not register the debt immediately on the expiry of the 14 days stated in their letter, and if you submit the WS too early, (before debt registration), TEC will reject it.
As to who is the "Applicant" on the form, it is the enforcing authority, so you enter "Newham Council". You are the Respondent.
Thank you for explaining! All is clear now.
I'll be checking regularly with TEC to find out when it's been registered.
Many thanks to all that replied and helped!
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Well this is a truly ridiculous PCN which we can easily beat on appeal, but first we need to get things procedurally back on track.
@raddic please read the guide at https://www.ftla.uk/announcements/charge-certificate-cases-under-the-traffic-management-act-2004-no-original-pcn/ and confirm whether everything you need to do is clear. It doesn't matter where in the world you are as long as you have access to the internet, the process can be completed from anywhere.
Once that part is done and the PCN has reverted to £130 on the council website we'll know it's an the NTO stage again, at that point you can give me a letter of authority and I can sort out the representations on your behalf.
Wow! Thank you!
You just made things very simple for me and I can't thank you enough.
I read through the guide and everything is clear. I only have a couple of doubts, the guide says I am not the 'Applicant', does that mean I should leave the Applicant field blank or enter the name of the Enforcement Authority there? As far as I understand it's the latter.
My other doubt is with the waiting a week after the 14 day period and making sure the debt has been registered with TEC, and that's only because you didn't mention it in your post. The 14 days have passed a few days ago, on the 29th of April.
Do I need to wait a week or am I good to proceed with the form?
Many thanks for the straightforward answer!
You are not good to proceed with submission of your WS until they have registered the debt at the Traffic Enforcement Centre. When they do this, the amount owing increases to £195 + £9 = £204. The £9 is the TEC registration fee. They also then send out an Order for Recovery, but as cp8759 says, you don't need to receive this, you just need to know when the debt is registered and that is known when the amount owing reaches £204.
They may not register the debt immediately on the expiry of the 14 days stated in their letter, and if you submit the WS too early, (before debt registration), TEC will reject it.
As to who is the "Applicant" on the form, it is the enforcing authority, so you enter "Newham Council". You are the Respondent.
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OP, IMO, two questions at the centre of this:
1. Did 'You did.. receive the postal Penalty Charge Notice or Notice to Owner in question? '
2. Do the construction barriers form the 'edge of the carriageway' for the purposes of s85 TMA.
1. This is your decision.
2. A legal question IMO.
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Well this is a truly ridiculous PCN which we can easily beat on appeal, but first we need to get things procedurally back on track.
@raddic please read the guide at https://www.ftla.uk/announcements/charge-certificate-cases-under-the-traffic-management-act-2004-no-original-pcn/ and confirm whether everything you need to do is clear. It doesn't matter where in the world you are as long as you have access to the internet, the process can be completed from anywhere.
Once that part is done and the PCN has reverted to £130 on the council website we'll know it's an the NTO stage again, at that point you can give me a letter of authority and I can sort out the representations on your behalf.
Wow! Thank you!
You just made things very simple for me and I can't thank you enough.
I read through the guide and everything is clear. I only have a couple of doubts, the guide says I am not the 'Applicant', does that mean I should leave the Applicant field blank or enter the name of the Enforcement Authority there? As far as I understand it's the latter.
My other doubt is with the waiting a week after the 14 day period and making sure the debt has been registered with TEC, and that's only because you didn't mention it in your post. The 14 days have passed a few days ago, on the 29th of April.
Do I need to wait a week or am I good to proceed with the form?
Many thanks for the straightforward answer!
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Well this is a truly ridiculous PCN which we can easily beat on appeal, but first we need to get things procedurally back on track.
@raddic please read the guide at https://www.ftla.uk/announcements/charge-certificate-cases-under-the-traffic-management-act-2004-no-original-pcn/ and confirm whether everything you need to do is clear. It doesn't matter where in the world you are as long as you have access to the internet, the process can be completed from anywhere.
Once that part is done and the PCN has reverted to £130 on the council website we'll know it's an the NTO stage again, at that point you can give me a letter of authority and I can sort out the representations on your behalf.
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So, from your narrative, it seems that having received the PCN, you then suffered severe ill health, necessitating a prolonged absence from the UK, and a period afterwards of convalescence, with your recovery only complete after <date> when you became aware of the forgotten PCN.
When you returned to the UK, was it to a new address ?
Reason to ask is that the Notice to Owner, and the Charge Certificate, are sent to the name and address on the V5 Registration Certificate for the vehicle. Can you say what has happened in this regard. Do you still have the vehicle ?
Based on your ill-health, which I would hope you are able to confirm with some documentation, I think there is a good chance you will be able to revert the matter back to the PCN stage, at which point you can pay or submit representations.
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Well, if you can get this reverted to a point in the process where you can appeal, then I think there's a strong argument to be made that the edge of the carriageway was (at the time) the metal barriers and you were within 50cm of them, but you've missed all the opportunities the legal process gives you to make that argument.
Giving us a timeline of ALL the documents you have received (with scans) would be a good start.
Hi GRant Urisimo, thanks for the reply.
I only have the PCN(from my windshield) and The Letter, both of which I've uploaded and can be found in my original post above.
The PCN was issued on 14/01/24 05:00
The letter is dated 15/04/24
Thanks
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Well, if you can get this reverted to a point in the process where you can appeal, then I think there's a strong argument to be made that the edge of the carriageway was (at the time) the metal barriers and you were within 50cm of them, but you've missed all the opportunities the legal process gives you to make that argument.
Giving us a timeline of ALL the documents you have received (with scans) would be a good start.
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Hi Incandescent,
Thank you for your thorough reply.
I haven't received a Notice to Owner nor a Charge Certificate!
I haven't been able to take any action on this penalty because of serious health troubles that hit me around that time, requiring me to seek expensive treatment abroad. Simply said, I didn't have the mental nor physical strength to challenge the PCN up until now.
I am better now, recovering well so thought I'd see if there's anything at all that can be done. If not, then I'll just pay up.
Many thanks
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As I understand your narrative, you have totally ignored the PCN, and also the Notice to Owner which would have been sent to the name and address on the V5 Registration Certificate for the vehicle, plus you have ignored the Charge Certificate as well, which puts the penalty at £195. True ?
YOU haven't mentioned the Notice to Owner, or the Charge Certificate documents. Did you receive these ?
If true you now have no option to submit any representations at all, only the payment option. This is because there are fixed periods on the PCN, and also on the Notice to Owner, to submit representations, but you haven't submitted anything. Any particular reason you have ignored all their documents ?
Their letter you have posted is not an enforcement document within the legal enforcement process, (Parliamentary Act, plus regulations). It is an unofficial document inviting you to pay the £195 before they register the debt at the Traffic Enforcement Centre. This adds £9 to the amount, making it £204. They will then issue an Order for Recovery which can be paid, but there is then a back-stop process to cover cases like PCN/Owner not received. However this doesn't seem to fit your circumstances.
Really, if you can tell us why you have done nothing to either pay or submit representations it would help us to see if there is anything that could get the process reverted.
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Hello Everyone,
I'm writing in regards a PENALTY CHARGE NOTICE I received on my windscreen for "Parking in a special enforcement area more than 50cm from the edge of the carriageway and not within a designated parking place".
I will begin with the fact that I'm very late with my actions. The PCN was issued on 14/01/2024 then on 15/04/2024 I received a letter giving me 14 days to pay before further action is taken by the County Court. I haven't responded or actioned at all to anything.
If it's not too late, I believe I have ground to appeal because there was fencing next to the curb so it was physically impossible to park less than 50cm from the edge of the carriageway. As well as that, there were no designated parking spaces marked, nor any signage at all.
Please see below, the PCN, the 14 day letter, the photos the CEO took and the photos I took.
REG NUMBER: DX16 UDN
PCN: PCN (https://imgur.com/a/nIS5ibg)
14-Day Letter: 14-Day LETTER (https://imgur.com/a/VRKiSkb)
CEO Photos: CEO Photos (https://imgur.com/a/cuNYjHP)
My Photos: My Photos (https://imgur.com/a/3RWLa51)
Location is here: LOCATION (https://maps.app.goo.gl/mQ8ZmB7XhyHXRDov7)
I'll be very grateful for any advice.
Kind Regards,
raddic