Free Traffic Legal Advice
Live cases legal advice => Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) => Topic started by: guest584 on April 30, 2024, 12:29:02 pm
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success they cancelled it! thankyou very much for your help
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Send this:-
URGENT
Name
Address
PCN number
You sent me a Notice of Rejection, after I submitted an appeal, but failed to give me any information regarding my rights to seek adjudication at TPT. Crucially I require a PIN number to register with the Tribunal.
Obviously this is a major procedural impropriety which I will raise at any hearing.
Would you send me the above information asap please?
Otherwise, I will understand if you decide to cancel the PCN after this procedural glitch.
Yours
At the same time, for insurance, send an email to the tribunal indicating that your NOR does not contain a Pin number and ask their advice:-
help@trafficpenaltytribunal.gov.uk
In your appeal I would add this to the circumstances bit--
The law does give an exemption if the vehicle has to be stopped in a restricted bus stop in order to avoid injury or damage to persons or property (TSRGD 2016 at S7-6-4(2)(b))
Mike
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Thanks Mike, no i havent had the pin, so do i email this email back and ask for it?pcn-query@wppp.org.uk
O
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OP---did you get the NOR by post? If so it is essential that we see it entirely.
The Council should have given you details of adjudication and sent you a PIN Code.
So the question now, for others, is how to get access to TPT or whether to send the appeal below back to the Council.
I would convert the appeal to pdf if its sent.
Name
Address
VRM:-CU56SXP
APPEAL AGAINST PENALTY CHARGE NOTICE-- NO. PT21541165
The Charge
Contravention 23 - Parked in a parking place or area not designated for that class of vehicle
Circumstances
My vehicle made an emergency stop at this location because my two children, who have learning difficulties, were biting their cochlear implants which cost a significant amount of money. The vehicle showed a Blue Badge which would not have been picked up by your passing camera car. Likewise the camera car would not have seen me in the back of the vehicle dealing with the situation.
Appeal
The major impetus of this appeal is that the Enforcement Authority have “achieved” several procedural improprieties, each of which renders the penalty charge invalid and makes the contravention given untenable.
1) The PCN is defective in that the Contravention Code 23 stated does not have a suffix.
How the recipient of such a notice is supposed to understand what vehicle is allowed in that bay is beyond me.
In this regard I would offer case MC49426047 ---- Mr Robert Piatt - v - Manchester City Council in which the adjudicator stated:-
“I therefore find that the contravention code used was deficient in that the suffix was not used. If the suffix had been used together with the words “goods vehicle loading bays” it would have been more clear to the driver what he had done wrong. I therefore agree with Mr Piatt that there was a procedural impropriety“.
2) The PCN is defective in that a parking place was never created by the TMO
Where the alleged parking contravention occurred the lines and signs denote a no stopping prohibition; the TMO never created a parking place so the contravention given is untenable. In this regard I would offer the following case--- 2230157501 Rafael Mendez v London Borough of Lambeth:-
“On examination of the Traffic Management Order (TMO) produced by the
Authority, I find that it does not create a designated parking place”
3) Increased penalty statement is incorrect and fetters the Council’s discretion
The PCN states that the penalty charge will be increased by 50% and steps will be taken to enforce payment. This relates to the charge certificate stage where the legislation notes:-
20.—(1) Where a notice to owner is served on any person and the penalty charge to which it relates is not paid before the end of the relevant period, the authority serving the notice may serve on that person a statement (a “charge certificate”) to the effect that the penalty charge in question is increased by the amount of the applicable surcharge.
This will/may issue is important as in the following case:- AW00056-1811 Claire Jones - v - Cheshire West and Chester Council where the adjudicator remarked:-
“In my view there is an important distinction between the words “may” and “will”. The wording set out in the Regulations shows that the issue of a Charge Certificate is discretionary. Use of the word “will” in the Notice of Rejection suggests that the issue of an increased charge is automatic. In my view this is misleading. I am therefore allowing the appeal on the grounds of procedural impropriety“
4) The Notice of Rejection (NOR) is Defective
My Regulation 10 PCN also acts as a Notice to Owner as per 20(4)(a) The Civil Enforcement of Road Traffic Contraventions (General Provisions) (Wales) Regulations 2013.
Under the Appeal Regs the NOR should therefore enclose details as follows particularly an appeal to an adjudicator:-
Rejection of representations against notice to owner
6.—(1) Where representations are made under regulation 4 and the enforcement authority serves a notice of rejection under regulation 5(2)(b), that notice must—
(a)state that a charge certificate may be served unless within the period of 28 days beginning with the date of service of the notice of rejection—
(i)the penalty charge is paid; or
(ii)the person on whom the notice is served appeals to an adjudicator against the penalty charge;
(b)indicate the nature of an adjudicator’s power to award costs; and
(c)describe in general terms the form and manner in which an appeal to an adjudicator must be made.
Since I’m missing the essential PIN Code I cannot access TPT and I am therefore forced to return this appeal to the Council whereas TPT is it’s proper destination. This of course ranks as a procedural impropriety of the first order.
Want to give up now before I start on the illegality of moving camera cars and withholding your discretion against two disabled boys?
Yours
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thankyou so much mike
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OP-- I'll draft you something today if possible.
Mike
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thanks, yes thats what i want to do, but i dont know what im suppose to be saying to appeal it, can someone help me?
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The place where you appeal the PCN is the Traffic Penalty Tribunal (TPT).
https://www.trafficpenaltytribunal.gov.uk/
As they have formally refused your representations against a postal PCN, you can register an appeal now. From what I've read on the thread so far, you have a very strong case.
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hiya can anyone help me with the appeal. i havent had anything in the post. just the email i attached. i would like to appeal it, if anyone can help me thanks
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hi all, ive had nothing else regarding the pcn. would someone be able to let me know how to appeal it based on what they have sent so far. the first appeal was denied.
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+1
OP---I would continue with this.
Once again we have a moving camera car because they can't be bothered to stop and issue a PCN. Adjudicators don't like this and I would argue the camera car should be static when videos are taken.
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/wsi/2013/360/schedule/made where it states:-
2. The device must include a recording system in which—
(a)recordings are made automatically of the output from the camera or cameras surveying the vehicle and the place where a contravention is occurring;
(b)there is used a secure and reliable recording method that records at a minimum rate of 5 frames per second;
(c)each frame of all captured images is timed (in hours, minutes and seconds), dated and sequentially numbered automatically by means of a visual counter; and
(d)where the device does not occupy a fixed location, it records the location from which it is being operated.
Mike
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If that is all they have sent, you have a slam-dunk win based on the notice of rejection being defective. However I would suggest we wait for the postal copy to arrive next week, just to be 100% sure.
Please bump the thread if you haven't received the postal copy by this time next week.
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Thankyou for sorting for me. Yes that is all I received.
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i cant seem to upload the video as its not one of you allowed file types?
That's because you're not read the "READ THIS FIRST" post (https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/read-this-first-before-posting-your-case!-this-section-is-for-council-tfl-dartme/)
does this work. hopefully
Well sort of but I've fixed it for you so it works properly now:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wBlZOXpJhFA
Can you please confirm whether the PDF file you attached is everything you have received? If that's the sum total of the notice of rejection then it's basically a guaranteed win at the tribunal, as the notice is hopelessly defective unless there are some additional pages.
By the way I have redacted your postal address above as you should not share such information on a public forum.
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does this work. hopefully
[attachment deleted by admin]
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hi all, thankyou, so i sent the representation off a few days ago, ive also had the video, they have rejected the claim. they have said the video shows noone in the front, well of course, i was in the back, where my child was, i was searching on the floor for one part of the cochlear which they had managed to get off, i have 3 rows of seats, and also the back of the car has black out windows, so you wouldn't have seen me. But i know i wasn't in the front, because i was trying to help my child in the very back. the video is really poor quality. Also it is frustrating as this train hasn't run for over a year,they stopping people and fining them for stopping briefly, when they know no train is actually going to turn up. if anyone can help me do the second appeal letter would be most grateful. thanks, i agree the road markings are very bad, white and then yellow, and one sign sayes road train, other sayes train and buses.
i cant seem to upload the video as its not one of you allowed file types?
(https://i.imgur.com/F8ku8JM.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/SzL6YMI.png)
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The wording of the PCN is also invalid because it does not specify what class of vehicle the parking place is meant to be for, I'm also pretty sure the combination of road markings is unlawful.
Relevant cases on the code 23 issue are:
Mary Harding v Royal Borough of Kingston Upon Thames (2160271291, 26 July 2016) (https://drive.google.com/file/d/1QtmX9lLTLTQx6uRa9NDzJvfXcJuhzylV/view)
Yuriy Myronovyh V The City Of Edinburgh Council (ED00154-2107, 4 October 2021) (https://drive.google.com/file/d/1OUYGSdtOnnkZXwyyv3pZrXjhnyjMAMbe/view)
Robert Piatt v Manchester City Council (MC00876-2010, 15 October 2020) (https://drive.google.com/file/d/1XqKhehvagEzi4MgvPQZEk65cZ2VuCDDg/view)
The point is significantly stronger in this case because the PCN is issued by post, so you wouldn't be able to look at the PCN at the roadside and have a look around.
Frankly before making a representation I would contact the council and simply ask for the video.
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OP, we need precision because of the very issues here and you posted a GSV which focused on the 'buses plus train' sign.
Can you link the video here or stills so this issue can be put to bed pl. Buses don't have parking places, they have clearways(if anything at all).
In any event, the contravention is incorrect as observed earlier because whether left or right they're clearways, not parking places, therefore parking contraventions cannot be committed.
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having looked on the side there is actually a bus sign but you dont see that, and to be honest its confusing, as i dont think ive ever seen a bus stop here either, and ive lived here all my life. shouldnt the 2 signs not be conflicting.
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this is the sign i saw
[attachment deleted by admin]
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there are 2 signs on the road, one sayes for the train only and mentions no buses, and the other sides sayes train and buses.
on the floor it sayes train lane, i parked on the other side where it sayes trains only.
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OP, the sign states that this is also a bus stop 24/7 * so alternative use by BB holders isn't an option.
- the no stopping sign is 7 day 9-9pm, but when the buses run is anyone's guess.
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thankyou mike appreciate. will let you know
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OP----in the first instance I would keep it simple as per the attached draft.
If they reject then we can hit them with the procedural impropriety (will/may) and the contravention being incorrect (it's a no stopping prohibition).
https://tro.trafficpenaltytribunal.gov.uk/TRO/Bridgend/CC11-REV1-E2-PDF-Land-Train-1.pdf
Name
Address
VRM:-CU56SXP
APPEAL AGAINST PENALTY CHARGE NOTICE-- NO. PT21541165
The Charge
Contravention 23 - Parked in a parking place or area not designated for that class of vehicle
Circumstances
My vehicle made an emergency stop at this location because my two children, who have learning difficulties, were biting their cochlear implants. I enclose a scan of their Blue Badge, which obviously would not have been registered by your passing camera car.
I would ask that the Council take this into account and use its discretion to cancel this PCN.
When considering this letter I trust the Council will have regard to my children’s disability and its statutory obligation under the Equality Act 2010 to take their disability into account when considering the circumstances of this case.
Should the Council withhold their discretion I would like to have a copy of the video from the camera car.
Yours
--------------------------------
Mike
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thankyou, really a similar incident. the train lanes take up so much valuable parking, that disabled people could make use of when the train is not working, its such a shame, as the council know the train hasnt been running for some time now.
https://maps.app.goo.gl/MFoKB1Q8GPCMicTBA
[attachment deleted by admin]
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We had a similar incident on Pepipoo. Same location.
IIRC it was a passing camera van and the Road Train doesn't run at this time of year.
We need the exact location via GSV please and documents (front and back).
The older case was, I believe, a bus stop contravention rather than the contravention given here.
Plus we have a will/may glitch.
Mike
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Hiya, hoping someone can help me.
So i received a pcn recently, cant quite believe it, as ive been super careful.
I want to appeal and wanted to ask if it is valid, because there now time from on the notice, only a time to.
Basically, we have a little road train in our town, which has its own parking area, its a huge section, and the road train hasnt worked for over a year, you can see it all chained up, i guess for repairs. I recently was out and my little ones, who have cochlears and have learning difficulties, were biting on there cochlears. Cochlears are 10,000 pounds each, and when i realised i quickly had to find somewhere to pull in safely to stop them. I know the road train is not working, so i pulled in and sorted them out. I assume some camera must have picked me up, because there was noone around, and if there was i would have explained it. I caused no issues, and i must have been there about 5 minutes, there was no train, i wasnt in the way. can i appeal this, on these grounds. I do have a disabled badge for my sons, but there are literally no disabled spaces around this area.
[attachment deleted by admin]