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Live cases legal advice => Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) => Topic started by: BoxJunctionHelp on April 30, 2024, 12:01:21 am

Title: Re: Merton Council: 31J - Entering and stoping in a box junction when prohibited
Post by: BoxJunctionHelp on May 26, 2024, 07:12:49 pm
Of course. See attached.


[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: Merton Council: 31J - Entering and stoping in a box junction when prohibited
Post by: MrChips on May 26, 2024, 08:05:04 am
Excellent - can you post a copy of the letter for our records?
Title: Re: Merton Council: 31J - Entering and stoping in a box junction when prohibited
Post by: BoxJunctionHelp on May 26, 2024, 07:29:11 am
Just a quick update that my PCN was cancelled!

Thanks again @MrChips @Hippocrates and @cp8759 for taking the time to respond.
Title: Re: Merton Council: 31J - Entering and stoping in a box junction when prohibited
Post by: Hippocrates on May 05, 2024, 10:54:56 am
How do I put it diplomatically? Merton's parking staff have serious issues in terms of understanding the various laws.  :-\  :'(  ::)  :o  That is, if they have ever read them.  ;D
Title: Re: Merton Council: 31J - Entering and stoping in a box junction when prohibited
Post by: BoxJunctionHelp on May 05, 2024, 01:23:02 am
Thanks @cp8759! Fingers crossed for a positive outcome following my representation, but happy to have a plan B.
Title: Re: Merton Council: 31J - Entering and stoping in a box junction when prohibited
Post by: cp8759 on May 03, 2024, 08:06:55 pm
Just to add that if they're stupid enough to reject, you should have multiple grounds to appeal because as well as the issue identified above, the notice of rejection wording used by Merton is known to be flawed, cases in point are Giles Kennedy v London Borough of Merton (2220586920, 8 October 2022) (https://drive.google.com/file/d/1B9N4JSUcCy2BR3QdqX0o3HKrzA7y0jOg/view) and Commercial Plant Services Ltd v London Borough of Merton (2240027331, 13 March 2024) (https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Ca_n8qFSL_WwGgxfAdfsu_-05leHw6EA/view).
Title: Re: Merton Council: 31J - Entering and stoping in a box junction when prohibited
Post by: BoxJunctionHelp on May 02, 2024, 05:39:24 pm
Thanks so much @MrChips and @Hippocrates!
Title: Re: Merton Council: 31J - Entering and stoping in a box junction when prohibited
Post by: Hippocrates on May 01, 2024, 10:57:26 pm
A ridiculous PCN.
Title: Re: Merton Council: 31J - Entering and stoping in a box junction when prohibited
Post by: MrChips on May 01, 2024, 05:07:43 pm
Not sure why there hasn't been much engagement in this one so far, yellow box junctions normally stimulate a lot of interest!

You need to get representations in by tomorrow to preserve the discount option.  Pending any further input, I'd suggest something like:

Dear Merton

Re PCN MT87828961

I recently received the above PCN.  Having reviewed your video footage I would like to submit representations against the PCN on the grounds that the contravention did not occur.

The allegation on the PCN is "entering and stopping in a box junction when prohibited".  As can be seen in the video footage having entered the box junction, I did not stop but continued in motion by immediately reversing.  I would have been able to completely clear the box junction in this way if necessary but as I was about to leave the car in front of me moved forward so I continued forward again until I had cleared the box junction.

The legislation around box junctions requires the vehicle to come to a period of complete rest for a contravention to be committed.  This did not occur in this circumstance and so the PCN should be cancelled.

Title: Re: Merton Council: 31J - Entering and stoping in a box junction when prohibited
Post by: BoxJunctionHelp on May 01, 2024, 10:40:39 am
Just bumping this up to see if there were any further thoughts from @MrChips or others now that the PCN is attached.

Thanks!
Title: Re: Merton Council: 31J - Entering and stoping in a box junction when prohibited
Post by: BoxJunctionHelp on April 30, 2024, 02:28:45 pm
Back of PCN attached here.

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: Merton Council: 31J - Entering and stoping in a box junction when prohibited
Post by: BoxJunctionHelp on April 30, 2024, 02:27:50 pm
Thanks MrChips.

Of course. Please see photos of the PCN attached.

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: Merton Council: 31J - Entering and stoping in a box junction when prohibited
Post by: MrChips on April 30, 2024, 12:22:56 pm
This is an interesting one.  You did enter the box junction without a clear exit (well clear one in front of you anyway!), but started to reverse pretty much immediately back out again.  The laws of physics dictate that it's impossible to change from moving forwards to moving backwards without at least a momentary time in between when you are technically stationary, but it's barely perceptible in the footage that you stop at all, and would certainly be 'de minimis' other than for the strictest of adjudicators.

Maybe it's the quality of the footage, but I can't make out any sort of stop line for the traffic lights ahead which cause the stop. The way the box junction is situated is a bit of a trap as traffic will suddenly stop without much warning when the road ahead looks completely clear, so anyone unwary or unfamiliar with the set up is likely to get caught.

While we consider this one, can you post up a copy of your PCN (all sides) just redacting your name and address please?  It will enable greater consideration of appeal arguments rather then on the footage alone.

Title: Merton Council: 31J - Entering and stoping in a box junction when prohibited
Post by: BoxJunctionHelp on April 30, 2024, 12:01:21 am
Would really appreciate thoughts on the likelihood of appeal success/ appeal approach here.

Essentially there was space for me to clear the box junction when i manoeuvred into the lane however, the space was taken by the vehicle ahead also changing lanes with little notice and despite breaking, it was not possible to slow my car down in time to avoid also entering the junction.

You’ll see from the video, I enter the junction less than 2 seconds behind them and I start to reserve in about 2 seconds also.

I have 3 days left to make a representation within the initial 14 day window. Video available here: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1jQD2jOlA7Z9AxA1Eus7Dwgnd_XvQ-asK/view?usp=sharing

Thanks all!