Free Traffic Legal Advice
Live cases legal advice => Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) => Topic started by: Helpme101 on April 23, 2024, 03:04:53 pm
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My representation was rejected.
https://imgur.com/a/CjDTNwx
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Thank youuu!! I’ll send this to them and await their response!
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Suggested draft:
Ref PCn VRM
The contravention did not occur because the video is of such poor standard that no signage is visible which you allege the vehicle passed.
In light of this, I am of the opinion that an adjudicator would agree, and so I request that you cancel the PCN.
Yours
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My video shakes too. I pass a sign right at the entrance of the pedestrian zone.
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Website issues in red:
Statutory grounds for appeal
A list of statutory grounds for appealing a MTC PCN.
Select a reason:
I was not the owner of the vehicle at the time
There was no contravention of an order or failure to comply with an indication on a sign
The vehicle was being used without my consent
We are a hire firm and the person hiring the vehicle had signed a statement accepting liability
The penalty charge exceeded the amount applicable in the circumstances of the case
Moving Traffic reasons
The following reasons relate to moving traffic contraventions
Select a reason:
I have already paid the PCN
I was not at the location on the day
I was not the driver
I was not the owner / keeper of the vehicle
My vehicle had broken down
My vehicle was cloned
My vehicle was stolen
The vehicle was on hire to someone else
*****
I can't see the video as it shakes. Could be my problem.
Signage: where? Does their evidence show you passing any?
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So I’ve followed my route in google maps. There are no signs until you actually get to the junction. I followed from Asda, to the roundabout and then past lidl.
Additionally it was dark. Could I potentially argue the signs were not lit?
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Hey! Okayy please see below:
https://imgur.com/a/TpdHHOJ
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(https://i.postimg.cc/DZc7tP3m/IMG-9836.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/ZBCkN3Rh)
Please also post the other page(s) - often mistakes in 'small print'.
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Hey received this through the post
https://postimg.cc/ZBCkN3Rh
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So just sit tight and do not contact them.
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What happened with the TEC application?
The order of recovery was revoked and charge certificate cancelled
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What happened with the TEC application?
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Hey! I just ticked the part which said I never recived pcn. Would B&D have to send a new Pcn then?
2)The statutory declaration must state that the person making it—
(a)did not receive the penalty charge notice in question;
(9)Service of a declaration under sub-paragraph (2)(a) above shall not prevent the enforcing authority serving a fresh penalty charge notice but if, when it was served, the relevant order under paragraph 6 was accompanied by a copy of the penalty charge notice to which the charge certificate relates, a fresh penalty charge notice in the same terms shall be deemed to have been served on the person making the declaration on the same day as the declaration was served.
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukla/2003/3/schedule/1/enacted
Boosting as I haven’t had a response yet
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Okayy! So should I call up b&D and see if they are still going to chase me. Or should I wait for another pcn in the post?
What if I wait again but the pcn isn’t sent or letter gets “lost” in the post?
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Hey! I just ticked the part which said I never recived pcn. Would B&D have to send a new Pcn then?
2)The statutory declaration must state that the person making it—
(a)did not receive the penalty charge notice in question;
(9)Service of a declaration under sub-paragraph (2)(a) above shall not prevent the enforcing authority serving a fresh penalty charge notice but if, when it was served, the relevant order under paragraph 6 was accompanied by a copy of the penalty charge notice to which the charge certificate relates, a fresh penalty charge notice in the same terms shall be deemed to have been served on the person making the declaration on the same day as the declaration was served.
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukla/2003/3/schedule/1/enacted
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Hey! I just ticked the part which said I never recived pcn. Would B&D have to send a new Pcn then?
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B and D should refer it to the Tribunal.
Sorry this may be wrong advice as I do not know what you said on the Statutory Declaration form.
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https://postimg.cc/Js9hcNqb
That’s a good point 😭😭! Please see attached.
Also I just realised I did not blank out the letter in the original link.
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B and D should refer it to the Tribunal.
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Hey all what do I do now?
https://i.postimg.cc/NGD18bbS/image.jpg
Post it the right way up, that's what !
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Hey what do I do now?
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Hey all,
I have now followed all the steps in the guide.
Should I start thinking about drafting representation? I was thinking of including something on the illumination of the signs and the fact that there’s not many signs leading up to the pedestrian area?
Thanks for the help
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Hey all no copy of the PCN was with the charge certificate.
I've checked the legislation and it says the Order for Recovery "shall be accompanied by a copy of the penalty charge notice to which the penalty charge relates", so it's worth keeping that in mind.
For now all you need to do is keep checking until the debt is registered with TEC and then follow the remaining instructions in the guide.
Hey I just recieved order for recovery in the post. There was no PCN attached.
I will follow steps in guide and update accordingly.
Thanks for all the help!
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Hey all no copy of the PCN was with the charge certificate.
I've checked the legislation and it says the Order for Recovery "shall be accompanied by a copy of the penalty charge notice to which the penalty charge relates", so it's worth keeping that in mind.
For now all you need to do is keep checking until the debt is registered with TEC and then follow the remaining instructions in the guide.
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Hey all no copy of the PCN was with the charge certificate.
Called today, still haven’t put it with TEC. I received this letter this morning
[attachment deleted by admin]
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@Helpme101 I would just follow the instructions in the guide (https://www.ftla.uk/announcements/charge-certificates-london-local-authorities-and-tfl-act-2003-london-local-autho/), the PCN was not received within the representations period and if you just get the matter reset you'll be sent a fresh PCN and you'll be able to make representations.
By the way, was a copy of the PCN provided with the charge certificate?
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You have not received the PCN within the period allowed to submit reps or pay it, so in terms of a Statutory Declaration, you didn't receive it, because they have now issued a Charge Certificate, and the process has moved on. That's my take on it anyway.
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Hey guys! So the letter (PCN) came through and dated on 18/03/2024 today. What do I do now? I only received it in the post today and received the charge certificate before it???
The charge certificate is dated 22/04/2024. I feel like they only sent the PCN a few days ago when they realised I was not paying.
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To be fair to @Incandescent when he responded I hadn't written this guide yet, but we do need to make sure the link to the correct guide is given.
We do, indeed !
It's high time a single act covered all of England instead of this ridiculous "double Act" !
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@Helpme101 please disregard the information given above, the correct guidance is here: https://www.ftla.uk/announcements/charge-certificates-london-local-authorities-and-tfl-act-2003-london-local-autho/
This is because your PCN is issued under the London Local Authorities and Transport for London Act 2003, while the guide Incandescent pointed you to is for the Traffic Management Act 2004.
To be fair to @Incandescent when he responded I hadn't written this guide yet, but we do need to make sure the link to the correct guide is given.
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Not much, but keep us up-to-date on how you get on.
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If you've got a Charge Certificate, you can't submit reps now as you'r now out-of-time, all you can do is just pay. Don't pay, though ! There is a third enforcement stage, but it's best if I post our guidance notes on it: -
https://www.ftla.uk/announcements/charge-certificate-cases-under-the-traffic-management-act-2004-no-original-pcn/
Thank you. Yes - I will do all of this. Is there anything else I can do?
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If you've got a Charge Certificate, you can't submit reps now as you'r now out-of-time, all you can do is just pay. Don't pay, though ! There is a third enforcement stage, but it's best if I post our guidance notes on it: -
https://www.ftla.uk/announcements/charge-certificate-cases-under-the-traffic-management-act-2004-no-original-pcn/
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On the website where i can challenge it provides following options to tick.
Statutory grounds for appeal
A list of statutory grounds for appealing a MTC PCN.
Select a reason:
I was not the owner of the vehicle at the time
There was no contravention of an order or failure to comply with an indication on a sign
The vehicle was being used without my consent
We are a hire firm and the person hiring the vehicle had signed a statement accepting liability
The penalty charge exceeded the amount applicable in the circumstances of the case
Moving Traffic reasons
The following reasons relate to moving traffic contraventions
Select a reason:
I have already paid the PCN
I was not at the location on the day
I was not the driver
I was not the owner / keeper of the vehicle
My vehicle had broken down
My vehicle was cloned
My vehicle was stolen
The vehicle was on hire to someone else
or any other reason.
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Sorry should also post sign.
Time noted on system is 18:30PM
[attachment deleted by admin]
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DATE:22/04/2024
pcn no: BZ80322380
We sent you a pentalty charge notice on XXXX, in connection with the above contravention, which explained that, as the person we believe was the owner (or hirer) of the vehicle, registration number you had to pay a penalty charge, or write to us explaining why you believe you did not have to pay it. The PCN was for the following alleged contravention:
53J Failing to comply with a restriction vehicles entering a pedestrian zone
We are now sending you this charge certificate because of one of the following circumstances
1. you did not respond to the penality charge notice
2. you wrote to us but we did not accept your reasons.
3. you appealed but your appeal was rejected and charge was not paid.
Amount due: £195
___________________________
Right so - I did not recieve that letter on 18/03/2024. I just got the letter on 22/04/2024 stating that as I did not reply I have to pay 195.
I am able to contend it online - what should i say?