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Live cases legal advice => Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) => Topic started by: yimkc on April 22, 2024, 03:22:06 pm

Title: Re: TFL PCN Code 46: Stopped where prohibited (on a red route or clearway) - southern kerb Chapel Street NW1
Post by: cp8759 on July 13, 2024, 09:18:02 pm
DNC'ed.
Title: Re: TFL PCN Code 46: Stopped where prohibited (on a red route or clearway) - southern kerb Chapel Street NW1
Post by: cp8759 on May 09, 2024, 04:16:00 pm
@yimkc this can be appealed on various grounds, including the situation being an emergency and it being doubtful whether you were parked on a borough road. However the trump card is the date of the PCN, which is 6 April 2024 i.e. a Saturday. I have an FOI from TFL (I can forward it to you) confirming that they do not have postal collections on a Saturday, however paragraph 3(1)(a) of Schedule 2 to The Civil Enforcement of Road Traffic Contraventions (Approved Devices, Charging Guidelines and General Provisions) (England) Regulations 2022 provides that:

3.—(1) The information to be included in a regulation 10 penalty charge notice is—
(a) the date of the notice, which must be the date on which it is posted,

This has won previously, see these cases:

Cristina Cornea v Transport for London (2230309290, 24 July 2023) (https://drive.google.com/file/d/1z-7nXLFc-FUU2A5MEZqnT_r6VvL1EpD6/view)
Martin Tony Arlington v Transport for London (2230244402, 23 August 2023) (https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Pa3c_Vk4mwWbR0S93ZUgq1wC48TEAZwP/view)
Title: Re: TFL PCN Code 46: Stopped where prohibited (on a red route or clearway) - southern kerb Chapel Street NW1
Post by: yimkc on May 09, 2024, 01:45:22 pm
@cp8759 I don't think TfL took it and rejected my representation. What's the next step? Or I can only pay the bill and close the case?

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Title: Re: TFL PCN Code 46: Stopped where prohibited (on a red route or clearway) - southern kerb Chapel Street NW1
Post by: John U.K. on April 30, 2024, 09:26:00 am
Quote
I will print it and send over by post these 2 days.

1stclass with proof of posting (free) at any post office counter - not recorded delivery.
Title: Re: TFL PCN Code 46: Stopped where prohibited (on a red route or clearway) - southern kerb Chapel Street NW1
Post by: yimkc on April 30, 2024, 09:07:09 am
Quote from: cp8759 on April 30, 2024, 12:19:13 am
Quote from: yimkc on April 29, 2024, 08:58:29 pm
I didn't. I missed this important evidence.
So send it now with a cover note explaining why it's important / what it shows. You'll have to send it by post. Send a copy, not the original.

Good advice. I ordered online I will print it and send over by post these 2 days. 

I will update here.
Title: Re: TFL PCN Code 46: Stopped where prohibited (on a red route or clearway) - southern kerb Chapel Street NW1
Post by: cp8759 on April 30, 2024, 12:19:13 am
Quote from: yimkc on April 29, 2024, 08:58:29 pm
I didn't. I missed this important evidence.
So send it now with a cover note explaining why it's important / what it shows. You'll have to send it by post. Send a copy, not the original.
Title: Re: TFL PCN Code 46: Stopped where prohibited (on a red route or clearway) - southern kerb Chapel Street NW1
Post by: yimkc on April 29, 2024, 08:58:29 pm
Quote from: cp8759 on April 29, 2024, 08:49:02 pm
Quote from: yimkc on April 28, 2024, 01:31:57 pm
Yes. I have ordered a new pair of glasses and now with them. All good now.
@yimkc did you send a copy of the receipt for the new glasses with your representation?

I didn't. I missed this important evidence.
Title: Re: TFL PCN Code 46: Stopped where prohibited (on a red route or clearway) - southern kerb Chapel Street NW1
Post by: cp8759 on April 29, 2024, 08:49:02 pm
Quote from: yimkc on April 28, 2024, 01:31:57 pm
Yes. I have ordered a new pair of glasses and now with them. All good now.
@yimkc did you send a copy of the receipt for the new glasses with your representation?
Title: Re: TFL PCN Code 46: Stopped where prohibited (on a red route or clearway) - southern kerb Chapel Street NW1
Post by: yimkc on April 28, 2024, 01:31:57 pm
Quote from: cp8759 on April 28, 2024, 12:49:54 pm
Quote from: yimkc on April 27, 2024, 10:20:33 pm
I haven't received any feedback from TfL yet. If they reject, can I use your argument above?
As your glasses are so important for your driving I take it you have or will be taking them to an optician for a permanent fix, as you wouldn't want something like this to happen again, right?

Yes. I have ordered a new pair of glasses and now with them. All good now.
Title: Re: TFL PCN Code 46: Stopped where prohibited (on a red route or clearway) - southern kerb Chapel Street NW1
Post by: cp8759 on April 28, 2024, 12:49:54 pm
Quote from: yimkc on April 27, 2024, 10:20:33 pm
I haven't received any feedback from TfL yet. If they reject, can I use your argument above?
As your glasses are so important for your driving I take it you have or will be taking them to an optician for a permanent fix, as you wouldn't want something like this to happen again, right?
Title: Re: TFL PCN Code 46: Stopped where prohibited (on a red route or clearway) - southern kerb Chapel Street NW1
Post by: H C Andersen on April 27, 2024, 10:36:47 pm
Sorry OP, but IMO an uncorroborated claim falls under the heading of 'mitigation' in my opinion, not emergency, unless perhaps you could produce your optician's report which indicates that the unadjusted vision in the affected eye is such as to severely impair your driving.

Emergency is a high bar IMO.
Title: Re: TFL PCN Code 46: Stopped where prohibited (on a red route or clearway) - southern kerb Chapel Street NW1
Post by: yimkc on April 27, 2024, 10:20:33 pm
@cp8759 really appreciate your insight but sorry I didn't keep a copy of my representation.

I have said one lens fell off from my glasses and it's vital for my driving. I have to stop immediately. I fixed my lens by putting it back and stayed for about 10 min. I also captured by glasses which has a crack on the frame. Not sure if this is sufficient or correct to do.

I haven't received any feedback from TfL yet. If they reject, can I use your argument above?

Thanks again for your time and advice.
Title: Re: TFL PCN Code 46: Stopped where prohibited (on a red route or clearway) - southern kerb Chapel Street NW1
Post by: cp8759 on April 27, 2024, 04:30:46 pm
@yimkc the traffic order is The GLA Roads and GLA Side Roads (Westminster) Red Route Consolidation Traffic Order 2008 (https://drive.google.com/file/d/1LOnrlNq-ehg8kH2cmAGnTq2Dj6Dqe3VO/view).

However what is more interesting here is The GLA Side Roads (City of Westminster) Designation Order 2008 (https://drive.google.com/file/d/12qp6xLdgGA4fwUTDucHIorHgZ3P8iJt6/view) which has this entry on page 5:

CHAPEL STREET the south side between its junction with Edgware Road (A5) and the extended common boundary of Nos. 15 to 16 Hyde Park Mansions, Cabbell Street and Nos. 256 Edgware Road

You can see number 256 Edgware Road here on the right: https://maps.app.goo.gl/GKYWRo2Y6SARYR7A6

So it is arguable that you were not stopped on a GLA side road but rather on a borough road, so the enforcement authority is the City of Westminster, and Transport for London has no powers to enforce at this location.

I see you submitted a representation already, please can you show us exactly what you sent?
Title: Re: TFL PCN Code 46: Stopped where prohibited (on a red route or clearway) - southern kerb Chapel Street NW1
Post by: Incandescent on April 22, 2024, 06:17:31 pm
With no lens in one of your specs, and needing them to drive, it was imperative you stopped. If you are going to submit representations, you'll need some supporting evidence. What do you have, or was the lens just put back into the frame by yourself ?

Having to stop in the circumstances you describe means the offence did not occur as you had to stop immediately, i.e this was an emergency situation.
Title: TFL PCN Code 46: Stopped where prohibited (on a red route or clearway) - southern kerb Chapel Street NW1
Post by: yimkc on April 22, 2024, 03:22:06 pm
Hi All,

I received a PCN from TFL regarding I have stopped in a red route bay in Chapel Street (near Edgware Road Station).

That day one of my lens fell off from my glasses when I was driving. I have no choice but to turn into Chapel Street. I saw a white line bay and there are cars parked so I pulled over. I didn't realize it was red route bay (with white lines). I stayed there for around 10 min after fixing my glasses and then I moved on.

I search Google Maps and found it was a red route loading bay 7am-7pm (https://maps.app.goo.gl/8oKTM2Ky8wFv6Js69). I have requested DVD from TFL and uploaded to Google Drive (https://drive.google.com/file/d/1-d8vcLGb8ZCWuPT85SOqMmypPreLm5Cc/view?usp=drivesdk).

Please advise if this can be appealed?
1. I stopped because of emergency as I have to wear glasses for safe driving.
2. The signage is not clear to me when I drove into Chapel Street. The signage is facing the other side of street instead of the street entrance (it's a one-way street).
3. The bay does not clear indicate it is red route bay. Its colour is no different with the disabled parking bay right ahead of it.

This is my first time getting PCN. Not sure if this is sufficient for appeal.

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