Free Traffic Legal Advice

Live cases legal advice => Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) => Topic started by: Iaali2 on April 22, 2024, 09:49:24 am

Title: Re: RE: LB of Newham, Code 12 - Parked in Zone without Valid Permit, Claremont Road
Post by: H C Andersen on July 29, 2024, 10:33:17 am
OP, you can only do your best..

..but IMO temper your expectations!

Every contemporaneous photo, both your sister's and the CEO's, shows the location of the sign clearly and once this is known then the driver's duty is to read. IMO, an adjudicator would not find otherwise.

And the tree concerned isn't a street tree, it stands on private property, so be prepared for a 'not the council we don't keep records  of treatment of trees on private property.
Title: Re: RE: LB of Newham, Code 12 - Parked in Zone without Valid Permit, Claremont Road
Post by: cp8759 on July 28, 2024, 10:39:20 pm
@Iaali2 you'll have to put the video on a CD or a DVD and send it to the council in the post together with the following representation:

Dear London Borough of Newham,

I rely on my informal representations in the first instance.

I further challenge liability on the ground that the alleged contravention did not occur owing to the signs being obscured by foliage. At the time of the alleged contravention the regulatory sign for the bay was obscured by branches and leaves, it is obvious from the enclosed video that the council has since attended to prune the foliage.

If the council has gone as far as pruning the vegetation then the council must have accepted there was a need to do this, as it is hard to imagine the council would spend scarce public funds on anything unless it is absolutely necessary.

If you are minded to reject this representation, please would you provide the logs of any maintenance carried out at this location since the data of the alleged contravention.

Yours faithfully,

You probably want to send this by special delivery to ensure it gets there on time.
Title: Re: RE: LB of Newham, Code 12 - Parked in Zone without Valid Permit, Claremont Road
Post by: Iaali2 on July 28, 2024, 06:13:40 pm
@cp8759.cp8759@gmail.com
@cp8759

I just took this with my phone.  Quality should be better.  Hopefully it's what you're looking for?

https://drive.google.com/file/d/15URuE6KB545_H456ZTVX6I8U4EBggJJv/view?usp=drivesdk
Title: Re: RE: LB of Newham, Code 12 - Parked in Zone without Valid Permit, Claremont Road
Post by: cp8759 on July 27, 2024, 10:40:47 am
@Iaali2 can she get a high definition video over the weekend?

My dashcam videos are 340MB per minute.
Title: Re: RE: LB of Newham, Code 12 - Parked in Zone without Valid Permit, Claremont Road
Post by: Iaali2 on July 26, 2024, 09:53:09 pm
@cp8759
@cp8759.cp8759@gmail.com

I think that was just the quality of her camera phone unfortunately.  Plus I think it's just because it's a short video??
Title: Re: RE: LB of Newham, Code 12 - Parked in Zone without Valid Permit, Claremont Road
Post by: cp8759 on July 26, 2024, 09:23:06 pm
@Iaali2 the video looks fine but do you have a higher resolution version? I thought it would take up a lot more space than 20 MB?
Title: Re: RE: LB of Newham, Code 12 - Parked in Zone without Valid Permit, Claremont Road
Post by: Iaali2 on July 26, 2024, 09:33:55 am
@cp8759.cp8759@gmail.com
@cp8759 


There was a big lorry in front of the sign this morning.. but my sister took a video


https://drive.google.com/file/d/1aQTC-fNJepdkMvcFwgEHytOIgK3J3VNl/view?usp=drivesdk

Not sure this helps??
Title: Re: RE: LB of Newham, Code 12 - Parked in Zone without Valid Permit, Claremont Road
Post by: cp8759 on July 25, 2024, 10:30:28 pm
@Iaali2 are you in a position to go and get a video showing the distance between the car and the sign?

I've had a possible idea but you must act quickly, as the deadline to make representations is 1st August.
Title: Re: RE: LB of Newham, Code 12 - Parked in Zone without Valid Permit, Claremont Road
Post by: Iaali2 on July 16, 2024, 12:37:32 am
No, nothing major other than slight asthma or blood pressure.
The food wasn't pre-ordered I believe. But was a quick stop.
Title: Re: RE: LB of Newham, Code 12 - Parked in Zone without Valid Permit, Claremont Road
Post by: cp8759 on July 08, 2024, 11:44:49 pm
She accompanied her to the shops I believe, whilst she has no medical conditions to provide her with a blue badge, she would not have been able to carry the shopping home herself. Which is why she was in the car.
Any medical conditions unrelated to blue badge eligibility? Was the shopping pre-ordered?
Title: Re: RE: LB of Newham, Code 12 - Parked in Zone without Valid Permit, Claremont Road
Post by: H C Andersen on July 08, 2024, 09:10:55 pm
Adding on behalf of my sister, she received a PCN whilst parked in what she thought was free parking 2 hours no return.  The reason she didn't pick it up was the signage was slightly obscured by branches of an overgrown tree, amd she just saw the bottom. The next bay was also marked 30 minutes no return.

??

Not according to 2 years-old GSV which shows the bay is next to a Disabled bay on one side and double yellow lines on the other!
Title: Re: RE: LB of Newham, Code 12 - Parked in Zone without Valid Permit, Claremont Road
Post by: Iaali2 on July 08, 2024, 08:48:33 pm
She accompanied her to the shops I believe, whilst she has no medical conditions to provide her with a blue badge, she would not have been able to carry the shopping home herself. Which is why she was in the car.
Title: Re: RE: LB of Newham, Code 12 - Parked in Zone without Valid Permit, Claremont Road
Post by: cp8759 on July 08, 2024, 08:11:50 pm
Other than the sign being obscured by the branches and her understanding the area was free for 30 minutes. She was with our elderly mother.
There was nothing other than that.
Where was she accompagning her elderly mother to or from? Does the mother have any medical conditions? Does she have difficulties walking?
Title: Re: RE: LB of Newham, Code 12 - Parked in Zone without Valid Permit, Claremont Road
Post by: Iaali2 on July 08, 2024, 12:10:04 am
Other than the sign being obscured by the branches and her understanding the area was free for 30 minutes. She was with our elderly mother.
There was nothing other than that. 
Title: Re: RE: LB of Newham, Code 12 - Parked in Zone without Valid Permit, Claremont Road
Post by: cp8759 on July 07, 2024, 11:49:29 pm
Representations must be made by 16 July to ensure the discount is reoffered.

Are there any mitigating factors available, especially anything unrelated to the contravention?
Title: Re: RE: LB of Newham, Code 12 - Parked in Zone without Valid Permit, Claremont Road
Post by: Iaali2 on July 06, 2024, 10:11:13 pm
I think it was this one


https://drive.google.com/file/d/1RImXCmlH5IIheyPOA9Bc-RGQS8EUlnkw/view?usp=drivesdk
Title: Re: RE: LB of Newham, Code 12 - Parked in Zone without Valid Permit, Claremont Road
Post by: cp8759 on July 06, 2024, 04:52:59 pm
Oh no, was deleting stuff on Google.. didn't realise that's gone.. will need to dig it up
Any luck with that?
Title: Re: RE: LB of Newham, Code 12 - Parked in Zone without Valid Permit, Claremont Road
Post by: Iaali2 on July 04, 2024, 01:05:42 pm
Oh no, was deleting stuff on Google.. didn't realise that's gone.. will need to dig it up
Title: Re: RE: LB of Newham, Code 12 - Parked in Zone without Valid Permit, Claremont Road
Post by: H C Andersen on July 04, 2024, 12:07:59 pm
The letter in post #7 has disappeared!
Title: Re: RE: LB of Newham, Code 12 - Parked in Zone without Valid Permit, Claremont Road
Post by: Iaali2 on July 04, 2024, 11:03:50 am
Have received the next letter, the fee has gone upto £130.00

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Qgmg05y8etZ4OIA2pciYz63k8MIW-hc1/view?usp=drivesdk

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1PaawxrtOClPDQ42el6Tby1Kn7XEohY16/view?usp=drivesdk

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1QYdn-mSb9lCXip_ev-PJsnzsi8sPGzc1/view?usp=drivesdk

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1PPSpgKUvKTdszuEe5CS97nbYphZYV3eg/view?usp=drivesdk

What's the next steps.. hopefully we have a means to challenge. 😬
Title: Re: RE: LB of Newham, Code 12 - Parked in Zone without Valid Permit, Claremont Road
Post by: Iaali2 on June 04, 2024, 10:29:35 pm
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1BQxtRaYXe2rKPq8Mv6Ugo802IAzBXdrg/view?usp=drivesdk

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1BSw_MuyAKX7FzuZm4i0iKqKkVp8nv4xR/view?usp=drivesdk

Letter of rejection of appeal attached
Title: Re: RE: LB of Newham, Code 12 - Parked in Zone without Valid Permit, Claremont Road
Post by: cp8759 on May 30, 2024, 08:59:32 pm
For later, these are the amending orders which mention Claremont Road:

The Newham (Forest Gate) (Parking Places) (Special Parking Area) (No. 1, 2002) (Amendment No. 7) Order 2014 (https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Qg-5-lG_z2TaiCgH1Z1cSKWdtvpEXZMy/view)
The Newham (Forest Gate) (Parking Places) (Special Parking Area) (No. 1, 2002) (Amendment No. 10) Order 2016.pdf (https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Ah7qHOyLgVrmmwo-0w17IFWoZRZXRqFn/view)
The Newham (Forest Gate) (Parking Places) (Special Parking Area) (No. 1, 2002) (Amendment No. 12) Order 2017 (https://drive.google.com/file/d/12Z0fxjt1iGt-eLjYsYojkCpOvdY1zRG7/view)
The Newham (Forest Gate) (Parking Places) (Special Parking Area) (No. 1, 2002) (Amendment No. 17) Order 2022 (https://drive.google.com/file/d/13ba2pCNxFtufmBA-lk_34cE5JXnSZ8KT/view)
Title: Re: RE: LB of Newham, Code 12 - Parked in Zone without Valid Permit, Claremont Road
Post by: Iaali2 on April 27, 2024, 07:05:57 pm
Thank you, that's been done.

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: RE: LB of Newham, Code 12 - Parked in Zone without Valid Permit, Claremont Road
Post by: cp8759 on April 27, 2024, 05:18:15 pm
Draft reps:

Dear London Borough of Newham,

In Andrew David Rush v London Borough of Southwark (2120562288, 5 January 2013) the tribunal held that:

"I see that the allegation in the Penalty Charge Notice is the standardised and rather complex wording of a "12" allegation. It consists of 36 words and encompasses the possibility of application to three different types of parking location and four different ways in which a contravention might occur.

The reason for this standardisation relates to how the Mayor of London authorises rates of penalty.

However this does not exempt the local authority from the legal necessity of giving to the Appellant an adequate description of why the claim to penalty is being made: he must be able to make an informed decision as to whether to pay the discount rate or dispute the PCN.

The PCN did not, in my judgement, adequately explain to Mr Rush that his displayed voucher was not valid in a permit bay.

I regard this as a procedural impropriety and I allow the appeal."

This was followed in Natalie van Dijk v London Borough of Islington (2150275729, 23 September 2015), and the same circumstances apply in this case: the wording on the penalty charge notice does not adequately particularise the alleged wrongdoing, and for that reason the notice should be cancelled.

Yours faithfully,

Send the representation online and keep a screenshot of the confirmation page.

The traffic order is The Newham (Forest Gate) (Parking Places) (Special Parking Area) (No. 1) Order 2002 (https://drive.google.com/file/d/158LXdv1yNx1JzmPQ07lgUMx7fK-1_3tq/view) but I'll need to check if there are any relevant amendments for this road, and also if there is an amendment to deal with the switch from pay & display machines to pay by phone (absent such an amendment it's hard to see how they could enforce at this location).
Title: Re: RE: LB of Newham, Code 12 - Parked in Zone without Valid Permit, Claremont Road
Post by: Iaali2 on April 22, 2024, 07:28:17 pm
That was all the sides of the PCN.. it was the yellow PCN attached to the windscreen apparently. The first 2 images
Title: Re: RE: LB of Newham, Code 12 - Parked in Zone without Valid Permit, Claremont Road
Post by: Incandescent on April 22, 2024, 05:05:37 pm
From the photo posted, the sign seems readable to me.

Post-up the PCN, all sides, so we can check it for possible fatal errors of content.
Title: Re: RE: LB of Newham, Code 12 - Parked in Zone without Valid Permit, Claremont Road
Post by: Iaali2 on April 22, 2024, 09:56:56 am
https://maps.app.goo.gl/YRyizota63t4x7xs6

That's the Google Maps link.  It is clear from foliage on there. 



[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: RE: LB of Newham, Code 12 - Parked in Zone without Valid Permit, Claremont Road
Post by: Iaali2 on April 22, 2024, 09:49:24 am
Adding on behalf of my sister, she received a PCN whilst parked in what she thought was free parking 2 hours no return.  The reason she didn't pick it up was the signage was slightly obscured by branches of an overgrown tree, amd she just saw the bottom. The next bay was also marked 30 minutes no return.

Is there any grounds of appeal or is she best off just paying the reduced fee?

[attachment deleted by admin]