Free Traffic Legal Advice
Live cases legal advice => Private parking tickets => Topic started by: cyril on April 20, 2024, 05:36:46 pm
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Thank you for your reply.
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One of the conditions to be able to hold the registered keeper liable for a charge is that the parking company do not know the name and address for service of the driver. If the registered keeper has provided the parking company with that information, they cannot use Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act to recover the charge from the keeper.
If they keep chasing the keeper, then he should re-iterate this point.
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Hi Guys
Registered keeper just messaged me if the driver does not pay or does not respond to the letter receive from PPM , is the Registered keeper liable, as if he is he rather pay and ask the driver you owe me this amount or just leave it as good will to avoid any issues with his northern relative.
Your response or advice will be appreciated.
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Thanks I will await Any further replies from the forum.
Who is now liable is it the driver or Registered Keeper?
They have the details of the driver and Registered Keeper.
Do they still chase the registered keeper, if the driver does not pay ?
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The argument about the 28 days and PoFA is gone because the drivers identity has been provided to PPM. PPM are now in scam mode and have passed this on to their DRA. Whether it is the DRA or PPM who apply to the DVLA for the keeper details will matter not. They are going to increase the demand to £160 or £170.
The keeper is going to have to deal with the outcome. I doubt they will issue a POPLA code as they are going to say it is beyond the appeal date. If so, the keeper can try and get PPM to chase the driver but they are still going to try and extort the DRA added fee.
Personally, I would ignore all DRA letters and just wait and see if/when they send a Letter of Claim. The only truly independent arbiter will be a judge. Perhaps wait and see what the cooler heads on the forum suggest.
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Thank you for your reply.
I did not receive the response for the Forum, so i told him you will just need to send this letter template i had and name the driver, so the Liability transfer to the Driver not the Registered keeper.
NtD meaning is to Notice to the Driver.
He was just worried and concern he had to reply within 14 days, otherwise he has to pay £100.00, so he wanted to reply to the parking firm.
I never know about the Many PPCs in the BPA omit any NTK when replying to an appeal and the very fact a PPC forgets to send you a NtK by day 56.
So now the Driver will be responsible now, not the Registered keeper ?
The below if the DRIVER contest the appeal, can he mentioned the below to win the appeal ?
The reason for non-compliance of the PCN with mandatory requirements is that it does NOT specify the time period for payment of the parking charge because it gives two different periods. The first, on the front of the PCN, states:
A PARKING CHARGE IS DUE WITHIN 28 DAYS OF THE ISSUE DATE,
whereas the first para. on the rear states:
PAYMENT - the driver of this vehicle must pay the parking charge of £100 within a 28-day period, starting on the date of this notice.
'Within 28 days of the issue date' does not carry the same meaning as 'within a 28-day period starting on the date of this notice'. The former gives an extra day.
As I understand it, unless stated to the contrary the meaning of 'within 28 days of X date' excludes that date. I believe there is case law to this effect.
Failure to comply with the above conditions provides grounds for the registered keeper to appeal successfully.
In my opinion.
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Oh dear... as this was a windscreen NtD, an appeal should have not been made until around day 25 or 26 after the NtD was issued. All the keeper had to do was send a generic "no keeper" liability appeal in order to tie them up in a period when they should be sending out an NtK. Many PPCs in the BPA omit any NTK when replying to an appeal and the very fact a PPC forgets to send you a NtK by day 56, gives you a winning point at POPLA.
So, now the driver has been thrown under the bus and will probably end up paying when it could easily have been avoided if the keeper had just followed the above process.
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Thank you for your reply.
This what the registered Keeper sent,
Now the parking company said need to wait for Debt recovery if the fine is not paid, as they need to contact Dvla for registered keeper details , but he has already confirmed he is the registered keeper and also provided the driver details and service address.
Tuesday 23rd April 2024
Private Parking Management
88 Dorset House
Duke Street.
Chelmsford,
Essex,
CM1 1TB .
Dear Sir or Madam,
Parking Charge Notice number: 105780xx
Vehicle registration number: xxxxxxx
I am the registered keeper of the above vehicle.
I am taking this opportunity to notify you of the driver at the time of the alleged incident.
Driver Name: xxxxxx xxxxx
Serviceable address:
Xxx xxxxxxxxx xxxxxx
Xxxxxx
Xxx xxx
You now have full details of the driver and condition 5 (1) (b) of schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 is no longer true and the keeper cannot be held liable for the actions of the driver.
There is no time limit to provide this information, bar the commencement of legal procedures.
As there is now no keeper liability I do not expect to hear from you or your agents again other than to confirm there will be no further action against me on this matter.
Yours Faithfully
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Can we please clarify from your previous post exactly what's happened so far. I think I know what's happened but it isn't entirely clear. Is this the case:
- The driver received a parking charge notice on the car windscreen
- Rather than deal with this notice themselves, they gave it to the Registered Keeper of the vehicle
- The registered keeper responded to the notice directly, apparently providing the name and address of the driver*
- The keeper received the response outlined in your previous post
*What exactly did the keeper send to PPM? Exact wording if possible, not a summary.
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IMO, strictly speaking the PCN Notice to Driver does not meet the conditions specified in paras. 7(2)(b) and 7(2)(c) and therefore para. 6(1)(a) and thereby para. 4(2)(a) of Schedule 4 to the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012.
Consequently, the creditor does not have 'the right to recover any unpaid parking charges from the keeper of the vehicle.'.
The reason for non-compliance of the PCN with mandatory requirements is that it does NOT specify the time period for payment of the parking charge because it gives two different periods. The first, on the front of the PCN, states:
A PARKING CHARGE IS DUE WITHIN 28 DAYS OF THE ISSUE DATE,
whereas the first para. on the rear states:
PAYMENT - the driver of this vehicle must pay the parking charge of £100 within a 28-day period, starting on the date of this notice.
'Within 28 days of the issue date' does not carry the same meaning as 'within a 28-day period starting on the date of this notice'. The former gives an extra day.
As I understand it, unless stated to the contrary the meaning of 'within 28 days of X date' excludes that date. I believe there is case law to this effect.
Failure to comply with the above conditions provides grounds for the registered keeper to appeal successfully.
In my opinion.
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This is the response he got the registered keeper as he gave the driver details and the below response he got.
Is there anything he needs to do or just wait for debt recovery and pass the driver details or appeal on behalf of the driver, as mentioned below.
Thank you.
Thank you for your online email submission, dated 25.04.2024, in respect of the above PCN.
At this stage in the process we are unable to effect a transfer of liability on the PCN as we are not in possession of the vehicle's registered keeper's details.
An application for the vehicle's registered keeper's details will not be made until the unpaid PCN has been passed along to our appointed debt collection agency, who then contact the DVLA and commence debt recovery action. It is at this stage that a transfer of liability can be requested (within 28 days of the first debt recovery letter), although the PCN will have incurred additional debt recovery costs.
If you wish to make an appeal against the PCN on behalf of the driver, please respond by return of this email - stating your reasons for appealing - within the next FIVE days.
We confirm that whilst we are awaiting your response the Parking Charge Notice is put on hold at the amount it was at when your email was received.
Regards,
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I have just checked the Street view again and i can see lot of signs in the carpark, but he must of went Saturday so may be busy i don't know.
He just forgot to pay and he had the windscreen ticket already on his car windscreen.
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And were the signs ‘there to be seen’ by someone parking and leaving?
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Please see below link I hope it is readable
https://imgur.com/a/tKM3EXU
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Well I certainly can’t read those contractual signs at all.
If you can then please type them up in full, or perhaps get actually useable photos?
Also the signs at the machine aren’t really applicable, it’s what could be seen from where the driver parked and where there to be read.
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This is the link
https://www.instantstreetview.com/@51.5083,0.041508,242.77h,-10.04p,0.13z,sov4SFEykp2qUn4bjU54Aw
https://imgur.com/a/r0i57Sj
https://privateparkingmanagement.com/
[attachment deleted by admin]
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It might be better if the keeper of the car posts himself, or it can turn to Chinese whispers.
We'll ideally need to see photos of the signage at the site.
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Thank you for reply.
I don’t have any connection to the car, I only know the person and trying help him out with this parking ticket, as he knows I had in past bus lane fine and helping others through this forum and other Pepipoo forum.
so he contacted me to see if I can help in anyway.
So I told him I will write to these guys and see what they say.
Thanks Again.
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Do you have any connection to the vehicle at all?
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Thank you for your reply.
It is the person I know who parked there and he forgot to buy the ticket.
This is first time I saw it on street view and there were signs displayed pay on display, which I asked him the question why did you not buy the ticket and he just rushing and forgot.
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I have received Private parking charge notice ticket today . . . . . . . . . .
. . . . . . . . . . I don’t know if he has seen the signs or not, . . . . . . . . . .
This is not making a lot of sense.
Please explain who "HE" is
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Hi Guys
I have received Private parking charge notice ticket today on windscreen at Dockside Rd Car Park.
Is there any chance of appeal, as I don’t know if he has seen the signs or not, these younger generation rushing.
It says reason parked without displaying a valid permit and parked without making a valid payment.
https://imgur.com/a/r0i57Sj
The parking company manages it is PPM private parking management.
https://privateparkingmanagement.com/
Your help and replies will be much appreciated
https://www.instantstreetview.com/@51.5083,0.041508,242.77h,-10.04p,0.13z,sov4SFEykp2qUn4bjU54Aw
[attachment deleted by admin]