Free Traffic Legal Advice
Live cases legal advice => Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) => Topic started by: mmn999 on April 19, 2024, 11:26:43 am
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A very useful decision. Congratulations for not joining The Mugged Club. ;)
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I think this judgement proves the signage is inadequate at this junction. I wonder how many people have been caught out ? Is there a way of finding out ?
You could make an FOI request to the council.
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Yes I was pleased at how straightforward it all was. The council were not present so I don't know how they proposed to defend themselves.
I think this judgement proves the signage is inadequate at this junction. I wonder how many people have been caught out ? Is there a way of finding out ?
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Full outcome here (https://drive.google.com/file/d/1BMnxwciqSTlQEb3IUNU23cUDRLGhlT6C/view), very well done indeed.
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Well done !
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Attached is the decision
[attachment deleted by admin]
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I went today and was successful as the signage was judged inadequate especially given the weather.
Will post the decision when I get it.
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@mmn999 going to the tribunal without advice can work out but it can also end in disaster, see this example: https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/warwickshire-cc-pcn-code-24-not-within-markings-of-bay-lakin-road-warwick/msg3575/#msg3575
Realistically at this point if you want help we need to see the whole evidence pack so that we know the case you have to answer. This is the sort of appeal that properly argued has a fair chance, but could go horribly wrong.
Alternatively you can PM me the tribunal login details (case number, verification code, PCN number and number plate) and I'll have a look for you.
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Please to have a read of
https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/read-this-first-before-posting-your-case!-this-section-is-for-council-tfl-dartme/
and post up here (in order beginning with PCN) all sides of all paperwork to and from the Council. Only redact your name and address
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Hi I am attending a tribunal next week about this PCN : https://imgur.com/a/3icN5YO.
I used the argument here https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/camden-using-a-route-restricted-to-certain-vehicles-local-buses-and-cycles-only-/msg8881/#msg8881 in my objection as well as other considerations :
I'm appealing on several grounds :
1. The council have failed to sufficiently specify the place where the alleged contravention occurred. The PCN states that the incident took place in “Tottenham Court Road W1” - a road that stretches for approximately 1.2km. In the case of Young vs Day, 1959 EWHC 1, commentary from Mr Justice Salmon highlighted the need to specify the exact location of the road under Road Traffic Act, 1930 s. 21, especially in the case of a long London road. He used the example of how “Oxford Street” would not be sufficient enough when specifying a place in London. This would equally apply when merely stating “Tottenham Court Road” as has been done in this case. More recently, in the case of Commercial Plant Services Ltd vs London Borough of Camden, 2023 it was found that location of the alleged contravention is not sufficiently specified, especially given that in the Camden (Prescribed Routes) (No5) (Part 2) Traffic Order 2020 there are seven different locations along Tottenham Court Road where the alleged contravention could have taken place. As such, the appeal was upheld.
2. The time of the PCN (18.56) is too close to the expiry of the contravention to be reliable. A driver cannot be expected to be checking his dash board clock continuously while driving and the clock may be not working properly.
3. The weather was extremely wet and stormy that night at that time and visibility was severely constricted. Also the sign is obstructed as can be plainly seen in the councils own picture.
The picture they attached to their reply shows how obscured the signage is (see attachment).
What do people think of my chances ?
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