Free Traffic Legal Advice

Live cases legal advice => Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) => Topic started by: S.M on April 18, 2024, 10:27:29 pm

Title: Re: London - WalthamForest 16Q - Parked in a permit space or zone without a valid virtual permit Mission Grove E17
Post by: cp8759 on September 17, 2024, 12:58:17 am
DNC'ed.
Title: Re: London - WalthamForest 16Q - Parked in a permit space or zone without a valid virtual permit Mission Grove E17
Post by: cp8759 on July 23, 2024, 08:04:59 pm
Am i correct in assuming that 12th of august 2024 - I need to send the application form for the tribunals?
You're not going to send anything anywhere, all appeals are done online.

Have you checked the click-counter for your links?
Title: Re: London - WalthamForest 16Q - Parked in a permit space or zone without a valid virtual permit Mission Grove E17
Post by: S.M on July 22, 2024, 02:27:02 pm
Am i correct in assuming that 12th of august 2024 - I need to send the application form for the tribunals?
Title: Re: London - WalthamForest 16Q - Parked in a permit space or zone without a valid virtual permit Mission Grove E17
Post by: S.M on July 16, 2024, 02:16:00 pm
I have now received the Notice of Rejection of Representation from WF - They have still not clicked on any of my evidences that was sent.

Please note this time on the back of the 4th page of the appeal rejection from 13/05/2024 there`s the 1st page of the Traffic Management act Right to appeal wordings (shouldn`t this be separated out? )

And should i proceed with appealing at the Tribunals?

(https://i.ibb.co/FDC5yqz/PXL-20240716-124945013.jpg) (https://ibb.co/6WLHTJF)
(https://i.ibb.co/JFqfkhF/PXL-20240716-124801348.jpg) (https://ibb.co/KzDMy1z)
(https://i.ibb.co/rMxs2mJ/PXL-20240716-124734614-2.jpg) (https://ibb.co/4M8dR7x)
Title: Re: London - WalthamForest 16Q - Parked in a permit space or zone without a valid virtual permit Mission Grove E17
Post by: S.M on June 13, 2024, 02:28:30 pm
The council hasn`t viewed the evidence that was provided till now as I have not received any notification of clicks.
Isn`t this a point of technicality? And regarding the markings, I can`t even see the faded ones in the evidence provided by the CEO  :-X
Well yes, but technical points at the informal stage don't carry as much weight as what comes later on.

I suggest you wait for the NTO and then make represenations as per reply 15 above.

(https://i.ibb.co/28q91KM/IMG-20240613-141901-edit-149969292203156.jpg) (https://ibb.co/KN6Ppys)
(https://i.ibb.co/cbCfnkR/IMG-20240613-141925.jpg) (https://ibb.co/gvPqKmQ)
(https://i.ibb.co/pXznv82/IMG-20240613-141920.jpg) (https://ibb.co/4NTJZGW)
(https://i.ibb.co/fDXVC0K/IMG-20240613-141911.jpg) (https://ibb.co/8Ymnj8R)
virtual russian keyboard on screen (https://usefulwebtool.com/)

I have received the NTO. I Will make the representation as per reply 15
Title: Re: London - WalthamForest 16Q - Parked in a permit space or zone without a valid virtual permit Mission Grove E17
Post by: cp8759 on May 28, 2024, 12:21:11 am
The council hasn`t viewed the evidence that was provided till now as I have not received any notification of clicks.
Isn`t this a point of technicality? And regarding the markings, I can`t even see the faded ones in the evidence provided by the CEO  :-X
Well yes, but technical points at the informal stage don't carry as much weight as what comes later on.

I suggest you wait for the NTO and then make represenations as per reply 15 above.
Title: Re: London - WalthamForest 16Q - Parked in a permit space or zone without a valid virtual permit Mission Grove E17
Post by: S.M on May 27, 2024, 07:22:44 pm

The bay markings are faded, but they're not wholly absent so it would be down to the adjudicator to decide whether they're substantially compliant. And there is the fact that the sign is right next to the car, which an adjudicator would attach some weight to. It might come down to whether the council views the evidence provided with the formal representations.

The council hasn`t viewed the evidence that was provided till now as I have not received any notification of clicks.
Isn`t this a point of technicality? And regarding the markings, I can`t even see the faded ones in the evidence provided by the CEO  :-X 
Title: Re: London - WalthamForest 16Q - Parked in a permit space or zone without a valid virtual permit Mission Grove E17
Post by: cp8759 on May 27, 2024, 03:00:40 pm
Full size council photos:

(https://i.imgur.com/JPjVbm8.png)

(https://i.imgur.com/ijhAms7.png)

(https://i.imgur.com/jVIpGCK.png)

(https://i.imgur.com/JXrBgRl.png)

(https://i.imgur.com/xoWc3ME.png)

(https://i.imgur.com/fGe1QbH.png)

(https://i.imgur.com/GHaYR0N.png)

(https://i.imgur.com/Wk4Gmvo.png)

The bay markings are faded, but they're not wholly absent so it would be down to the adjudicator to decide whether they're substantially compliant. And there is the fact that the sign is right next to the car, which an adjudicator would attach some weight to. It might come down to whether the council views the evidence provided with the formal representations.
Title: Re: London - WalthamForest 16Q - Parked in a permit space or zone without a valid virtual permit Mission Grove E17
Post by: S.M on May 21, 2024, 12:06:20 am
WF has rejected the appeal and has not viewed the evidence as there`s no click on the click logger website. Is it just a case of waiting till they send the NTO?
Yes, and when you get the NTO I would just say "I require you to reconsider my informal representations as my formal representation".

As for the bay markings, you've unnecessarily redacted your number plate and VRM, which prevents us from seeing the council evidence (which by definition the council has already). I suggest you review the guidance here (https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/read-this-first-before-posting-your-case!-this-section-is-for-council-tfl-dartme/) and re-post the PCN without any redactions so we can give you a proper legal opinion.

My bad - I don`t know why i always redact these info.
It seems that I do not have access anymore to edit the first post.
Please find attached the unredacted PCN

(https://i.imgur.com/1Q3mdsd.jpeg)

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: London - WalthamForest 16Q - Parked in a permit space or zone without a valid virtual permit Mission Grove E17
Post by: cp8759 on May 17, 2024, 11:19:38 pm
WF has rejected the appeal and has not viewed the evidence as there`s no click on the click logger website. Is it just a case of waiting till they send the NTO?
Yes, and when you get the NTO I would just say "I require you to reconsider my informal representations as my formal representation".

As for the bay markings, you've unnecessarily redacted your number plate and VRM, which prevents us from seeing the council evidence (which by definition the council has already). I suggest you review the guidance here (https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/read-this-first-before-posting-your-case!-this-section-is-for-council-tfl-dartme/) and re-post the PCN without any redactions so we can give you a proper legal opinion.
Title: Re: London - WalthamForest 16Q - Parked in a permit space or zone without a valid virtual permit Mission Grove E17
Post by: S.M on May 13, 2024, 01:13:42 pm
WF has rejected the appeal and has not viewed the evidence as there`s no click on the click logger website. Is it just a case of waiting till they send the NTO?
Title: Re: London - WalthamForest 16Q - Parked in a permit space or zone without a valid virtual permit Mission Grove E17
Post by: S.M on May 13, 2024, 01:11:01 pm
Can you post copies of the photos you've sent them on here please? I haven't clicked the links in the version you PM'ed me as I think they're the links with the click counter.

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: London - WalthamForest 16Q - Parked in a permit space or zone without a valid virtual permit Mission Grove E17
Post by: S.M on April 30, 2024, 09:01:08 pm
Can you post copies of the photos you've sent them on here please? I haven't clicked the links in the version you PM'ed me as I think they're the links with the click counter.

Hi - I PMd you - I included a receipt which tallies with the timing -

Title: Re: London - WalthamForest 16Q - Parked in a permit space or zone without a valid virtual permit Mission Grove E17
Post by: cp8759 on April 30, 2024, 09:07:56 am
Can you post copies of the photos you've sent them on here please? I haven't clicked the links in the version you PM'ed me as I think they're the links with the click counter.
Title: Re: London - WalthamForest 16Q - Parked in a permit space or zone without a valid virtual permit Mission Grove E17
Post by: S.M on April 30, 2024, 12:31:44 am
What I meant was the bay wasn`t painted correctly
In what way was the bay not painted correctly?

Post any draft on here before sending it please.

Hi @Cp - Yesterday 28th was the last day and I have sent an appeal already.
By bay not painted correctly, I meant the white lines on the floor. The Google map image which was from Aug 2022 shows that they were starting to fade and now they have not been repainted since. Not sure if this will be admissible but I have also included some pictures (with links from grabify) which would show if they have clicked on the evidence submitted.
Title: Re: London - WalthamForest 16Q - Parked in a permit space or zone without a valid virtual permit Mission Grove E17
Post by: cp8759 on April 29, 2024, 10:38:21 pm
What I meant was the bay wasn`t painted correctly
In what way was the bay not painted correctly?

Post any draft on here before sending it please.
Title: Re: London - WalthamForest 16Q - Parked in a permit space or zone without a valid virtual permit Mission Grove E17
Post by: S.M on April 28, 2024, 10:37:31 pm
I am drafting a letter to send and will also include a picture with an image grabber link
Title: Re: London - WalthamForest 16Q - Parked in a permit space or zone without a valid virtual permit Mission Grove E17
Post by: S.M on April 28, 2024, 12:58:53 pm
Hello everyone. Given that today is the last day, any idea of what can be done? Or should i bite the bullet on this?
Title: Re: London - WalthamForest 16Q - Parked in a permit space or zone without a valid virtual permit Mission Grove E17
Post by: S.M on April 25, 2024, 05:23:19 pm
The bay appears to be marked correctly based on map tiles CL39 (https://store.traffweb.app/walthamforest/documents/parkmap/msched/CL39_rv4_1.pdf) and CM39 (https://store.traffweb.app/walthamforest/documents/parkmap/msched/CM39_rv3_1.pdf) and the map legend (https://store.traffweb.app/walthamforest/documents/parkmap/sched/MAP%20SCHEDULE%20LEGEND%20LBWF_eff%2025_07_2019.pdf), this might be one for the strategy of last resort (https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/city-of-edinburgh-02-parked-in-a-restricted-street-lochrin-buildings-gilmour-pla/msg7413/#msg7413) but you'd have to come up with some mitigation worth mentioning.

The traffic order is The Waltham Forest (Charged-For Parking Places) Order 2019 (https://drive.google.com/file/d/1sEoPniKzvrLIqM582DB0uUpE3g_q67WD/view).

What I meant was the bay wasn`t painted correctly - I could go option 2, appeal and mention that it wasn`t even painted correctly, if they trip up fair enough otherwise i`ll pay whilst the discount is still on during the appeal process. 
Title: Re: London - WalthamForest 16Q - Parked in a permit space or zone without a valid virtual permit Mission Grove E17
Post by: cp8759 on April 22, 2024, 11:45:24 pm
The bay appears to be marked correctly based on map tiles CL39 (https://store.traffweb.app/walthamforest/documents/parkmap/msched/CL39_rv4_1.pdf) and CM39 (https://store.traffweb.app/walthamforest/documents/parkmap/msched/CM39_rv3_1.pdf) and the map legend (https://store.traffweb.app/walthamforest/documents/parkmap/sched/MAP%20SCHEDULE%20LEGEND%20LBWF_eff%2025_07_2019.pdf), this might be one for the strategy of last resort (https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/city-of-edinburgh-02-parked-in-a-restricted-street-lochrin-buildings-gilmour-pla/msg7413/#msg7413) but you'd have to come up with some mitigation worth mentioning.

The traffic order is The Waltham Forest (Charged-For Parking Places) Order 2019 (https://drive.google.com/file/d/1sEoPniKzvrLIqM582DB0uUpE3g_q67WD/view).
Title: Re: London - WalthamForest 16Q - Parked in a permit space or zone without a valid virtual permit Mission Grove E17
Post by: John U.K. on April 21, 2024, 09:21:38 pm
14th is day one, so 27th by my reckoning.

EDIT
Haviong checked your PCN, its date is 15th.... so final date is the 28th.
Title: Re: London - WalthamForest 16Q - Parked in a permit space or zone without a valid virtual permit Mission Grove E17
Post by: S.M on April 21, 2024, 07:36:01 pm
if date of notice was 14th - aM i right in saying the last date to appeal is 28th?
Title: Re: London - WalthamForest 16Q - Parked in a permit space or zone without a valid virtual permit Mission Grove E17
Post by: S.M on April 18, 2024, 11:56:01 pm
Please find the back of the PCN below

(https://i.ibb.co/LZ8dhhz/IMG-20240418-235333-edit-3617012143363706.jpg) (https://ibb.co/kSx266g)
html image (https://imgbb.com/)
Title: Re: London - WalthamForest 16Q - Parked in a permit space or zone without a valid virtual permit Mission Grove E17
Post by: Incandescent on April 18, 2024, 11:52:36 pm
Please show us the back of the PCN, it may contain a fatal error rendering it void. The sign seems clear enough to me although there is quite a lot to read.  Apart from that you're looking at whether the traffic order for the bay is correct in all detail. There may be something else I've forgotten about, so wait a bit to see what the others say, but don't miss any deadlines on the PCN.
Title: London - WalthamForest 16Q - Parked in a permit space or zone without a valid virtual permit Mission Grove E17
Post by: S.M on April 18, 2024, 10:27:29 pm
Evening Folks,

I am not sure if this is worth fighting for but would be interested to hear your thoughts.

Mrs was picking something up from a shop that took 5 mins and when she was back the ticket was already affixed. She`s adamant that the warden must have been there when she was parking.

16Q is for Market trader bays but she mistook that it was free for 15 mins ( that only starts from 2pm onwards).

I can`t see anything wrong with that PCN, maybe the parking bay isn`t marked properly as per the Google Image? but that maybe a long shot.

Please let me know if there is any ground for appeal.

Google Map - https://maps.app.goo.gl/NZ3FMPzQitXq7gTFA

(https://i.ibb.co/30xtf9V/PCN6.png) (https://imgbb.com/)
(https://i.ibb.co/sg87ySY/pcn3.png) (https://imgbb.com/)
(https://i.ibb.co/QFNyzHy/PCN1.png) (https://imgbb.com/)
(https://i.ibb.co/GTxrtHW/pcn5.jpg) (https://ibb.co/9t8dVZb)
(https://i.ibb.co/M8XsHQ9/pcn2.png) (https://ibb.co/tZd46F3)
(https://i.ibb.co/q1d0ysD/pcn0.jpg) (https://ibb.co/0JcBDMn)