Free Traffic Legal Advice
Live cases legal advice => Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) => Topic started by: Strawberries007 on July 08, 2023, 12:33:00 pm
-
I'm sorry to tell you that anything you were told on the phone isn't worth anything, it all has to be done in writing or it might as well not have happened.
-
Today is the last day or the £65 reduced fine.
Do u have a leg to stand on if it turns out the details they've given about when hey started issues fines is incorrect?
I remember when I rang them when I first got the fine the lady said they've just started giving fines a couple of weeks ago. So I'm wondering whether to bother ringing to check the dates with them again.
-
Thank you.
-
I've had a look and I can't see anything that warrants risking the full amount at the tribunal. It looks like you did mention a sat-nav after all, and as I expected they've used that against you.
There is always a chance the council might mess up the evidence pack, but that's thin gruel to risk throwing good money after bad.
-
We need to see the whole NOR. They always send officers to the Tribunal. So, unless there is something amiss with the rest of the NOR, I would advise paying it.
Do you mean Southwark or London Councils generally?
-
Please see link to the decision.
I hope this works OK. Do let me know if I need to do anything else to it and also look forward to your thoughts regarding whether I have any change at the tribunal.
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1NcDbGJLyr0AECfCPwwfEoOL1p65XGFP5
-
We need to see the whole NOR. They always send officers to the Tribunal. So, unless there is something amiss with the rest of the NOR, I would advise paying it.
-
I received a reply on 16th August.
It's five pages but below is the main bit.
Notice of Rejection of Representations - Road Traffic Act 1991 (as amended)London Local Aut horities Acts 1990 - 2003CCTV -
Moving Traffic Cont raventions
Dear
Thank you for your recent representations made in connect ion with the issue of the above penalty charge notice (PCN).We sent you a PCN because our CCTV camera evidence shows your vehicle going where motor vehicles are not allowed.
The sign is round, white and has a red border. The sign, on each side of the carriageway, is that prescribed by Diagram 619at Item 12 in Part 2 of Schedule 3 to the Traffic Signs Regulations and General Directions 2016, as indicating ‘Motor vehiclesprohibited’. The sign is illust rated in the current edition of the Official Highway Code. In addit ion we can confirm that there areadvance warning signs prior to the locat ion warning drivers of the restrict ed rout e.
We have carefully considered what you say about the issuing and t he wording on the PCN but we have decided not to apply discretion or cancel your Penalty Charge Not ice (PCN).
Please note that navigation systems may not be up to date with the restrict ions on the ground. Whilst sat navigations maybe helpful, the onus is on the driver t o observe and interpret the signage whilst driving.
Southwark Council is satisfied that the wording on the PCN is compliant and correctly conveys the 28 day period required by law. We refer to thePCN at the section highlighted below which clearly states that,“If full payment has not been made before the end of the period of 28 days beginning with the date of service of this Notice, a Charge certificate maybe issued……”The restrict ion at this location has been in place since November 2022 and came into force 12 December 2022 and t hat wesent out warning notices from 23 March 2023 to 05 April 2023 . Penalty charge notices were then issued from 17 April 2023.The restrict ions apply at all times.The CCTV evidence shows your vehicle driving through the rest ricted rout e. It is unfortunat e t hat the driver was unfamiliarwit h the rules that were in force. Drivers are advised t o ent er the street using an alternat ive route. Whilst the Council hastaken practical measures to inform motorist s regarding t he rest rictions in addition t o placing clear signage at the locat ion, itis not unreasonable t o expect motorist s t o be vigilant and observe t he signage whilst driving on the public highway. Thesignage was unambiguous and unobscured.
15/08/202385H313
The Penalty charge amount is £130, please note t he charges for PCNs are set by cent ral government, not by us. They areset at high levels to encourage drivers t o obey the parking and driving rules and so increase t raffic flow and safety. As thecase is already at the discount amount, we cannot reduce the charge any further. However, we have increased the time youhave to pay the lower charge t o a further 14 days.The onus remains with the motorist to fully observe signs to ensure t hat road regulations are adhered at all times. SouthwarkCouncil int roduced these traffic-calming measures as part of the Street space and Low Traffic Neighbourhood (LTN)scheme. The council is using enforcement cameras to limit motor t raffic, as talks with the London Emergency Services, haveshown that camera enforcement is their clear preference over barriers.You may view a recording of the contravention online at https://pcnevidence.southwarkparking.co.uk/pcnonline/ .The enclosed phot os help to show why your PCN was issued .....
I'll try to upload a photo shortly.
Is there any grounds that might work at appeal?
-
Thank you @cp8759 will do.
-
Take out the whole paragraph about Google navigation, they will crucify you on that (there's a templated paragraph every council has to deal with that point).
Other than that it's probably the best you can do for now.
-
Please see my proposed reply below.
Dear Sir/Madam,
I am writing with regards to the Penalty Charge Notice (JK08755898) issued for “failing to comply with a prohibition on certain types of vehicle” on Westmorland Rd Junction Queen’s Row issued 3.7.2023.
I was shocked to receive this notice and at first didn’t understand what the contravention was as it wasn’t clear from the photos on the notice.
I have been on this road in the past without any issues and hadn’t anticipated any as I approached.
So I rang the helpline upon receiving the PCN, was directed to where I could watch the video and see photos and was told that the changes came into effect a few weeks ago and is new. As you can see from the address on the notice, I am not from the area in question and was therefore unaware of road restrictions recently put in place.
As the video evidence shows, there were no advance warning signs that new restrictions are in place until reaching the junction itself.
This is a recent prohibition introduced a few weeks ago, which I was not aware of. I have not encountered such a system before.
I was using Google navigation and it has not yet been updated to reflect the changes to the road usage.
I understand that this is not a legal defence. I am making a plea that you please exercise discretion as the scheme is new, satnavs have not yet caught up and there was no prior warning that there is no access for motor vehicles until one reaches the road itself.
With the current increase of cost of living this amount is very high and I’m currently not working. This offense is worth a few days work for someone like me and I hope you show some discretion to cancel both the contraventions.
I would kindly ask that you might, on this occasion, consider cancelling the charge due to the circumstance outlined above.
Thank you.
Regards,
-
Thanks.
Please see attached PCN.
Apologies, I'm just replying. Been away caring for my MIL.
Draft to follow
[attachment deleted by admin]
-
Didn't see or didn't register? Not the same thing unfortunately.
All I can suggest is that you make a plea for discretion and hope that the council messes up the response.
Write a draft and post it on here for review in the first instance.
-
I was going nearby and didn't see the signs.
-
Why did you drive past the signs?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6rHJAa2j4KU
Also please post the PCN in full, you only need to hide your postal address.
The traffic order is The London Borough of Southwark (Prescribed routes) (Westmoreland Road) Experimental Traffic Order 2022 (https://bit.ly/42dDvuI), I'm not aware of any flaws but someone else might spot something.
-
Hi guys,
Please help with this PCN I've received. https://ibb.co/album/TqHd82
I don't understand how I've fallen foul of law as I come round this area once a month.
Please help me put forward a formidable appeal.
Location: Westmoreland Rd & Queen's Row junction Location
I spoke to Southwark Parking. Apparently it's a new sign and went up a few weeks ago.
The signs are quite new and clearly seen on either side in the video they've provided. https://pcnevidence.southwarkparking.co.uk/pcnonline/ JK08755898 PO70TXC
£65 is a lot of money. I asked if they would be minded to cancel as it's my first time and it's a new sign, she said she doubted they will.
Any grounds please?
Thank you