Free Traffic Legal Advice

Live cases legal advice => Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) => Topic started by: zeezee on April 13, 2024, 01:08:48 am

Title: Re: Parked in restriced hrs bus lane, Gants Hill, Redbridge
Post by: Hippocrates on September 08, 2025, 11:14:36 am
I don't apply for costs at all now having been told: "This has to stop".
Title: Re: Parked in restriced hrs bus lane, Gants Hill, Redbridge
Post by: cp8759 on September 07, 2025, 05:57:53 pm
@cp8759  what was it about this particular case that made you pre-advise the council about costs in the formal reps?  Should it not be something that is stipulated by default in instances where there is a high probability of winning at tribunal?
I only put it in when I think there's a realistic chance of actually getting costs. If it were just included in every representation by default, it would carry a lot less weight.
Title: Re: Parked in restriced hrs bus lane, Gants Hill, Redbridge
Post by: NTIAEP on September 07, 2025, 05:45:50 pm
@cp8759  what was it about this particular case that made you pre-advise the council about costs in the formal reps?  Should it not be something that is stipulated by default in instances where there is a high probability of winning at tribunal?  Otherwise and in my personal experience, Redbridge (and others?) will continue to reject reps and then simply DNC when it doesn't have a valid case.
Title: Re: Parked in restriced hrs bus lane, Gants Hill, Redbridge
Post by: Hippocrates on September 06, 2025, 09:15:11 pm
Unless Council staff are personally held accountable nothing will change.

This is why I name and shame them in my videos.
Title: Re: Parked in restriced hrs bus lane, Gants Hill, Redbridge
Post by: cp8759 on September 06, 2025, 09:53:30 am
Really expensive day out for Redbridge, £184 in total.

https://www.lgo.org.uk/decisions/transport-and-highways/parking-and-other-penalties/25-000-420
Title: Re: Parked in restriced hrs bus lane, Gants Hill, Redbridge
Post by: Incandescent on December 25, 2024, 11:07:24 am
A good win but unfortunately it costs the Council nothing. The money they must pay comes from PCN income. This is why Councils don't fear losing. Unless Council staff are personally held accountable nothing will change. When your own money is not at risk you have nothing to lose. Hence why we have the local and national Govt attititudes we do. No one is accountable.
As most people just cough-up on receiving a PCN, they can stand a few loses at adjudication. London councils make millions from parking and its enforcement, plus all the traffic PCNs where it's money for old rope.
Title: Re: Parked in restriced hrs bus lane, Gants Hill, Redbridge
Post by: Phantomcrusader on December 25, 2024, 02:18:41 am
A good win but unfortunately it costs the Council nothing. The money they must pay comes from PCN income. This is why Councils don't fear losing. Unless Council staff are personally held accountable nothing will change. When your own money is not at risk you have nothing to lose. Hence why we have the local and national Govt attititudes we do. No one is accountable.
Title: Re: Parked in restriced hrs bus lane, Gants Hill, Redbridge
Post by: cp8759 on December 24, 2024, 01:22:47 pm
Expensive day out for the council, outcome here (https://drive.google.com/file/d/1BMrBTx7Yk5NshP-cgOiCZyFPOJVke320/view).
Title: Re: Parked in restriced hrs bus lane, Gants Hill, Redbridge
Post by: cp8759 on July 24, 2024, 10:02:31 pm
@zeezee I'm going to drop you a PM, this should be easy to sort out.
Title: Re: Parked in restriced hrs bus lane, Gants Hill, Redbridge
Post by: zeezee on July 24, 2024, 03:00:15 pm
So I'm assuming based upon @cp8759 response on the thread - that is the basis for my dad's appeal?
Title: Re: Parked in restriced hrs bus lane, Gants Hill, Redbridge
Post by: zeezee on July 18, 2024, 12:42:33 pm
Thank you.

Apart from being allowed to park on a single yellow line (displaying a blue badge) even in restricted times (via a bus lane) - what other arguments can he derive from this situation when drawing up the appeal to the Adj?
Title: Re: Parked in restriced hrs bus lane, Gants Hill, Redbridge
Post by: Incandescent on July 16, 2024, 02:27:07 pm
Is there anything additional I can do to convince the council that they have made a clear mistake in giving the PCN?
No, they've given their response to your formal representations, and have demanded the full £130, so it is now a total no-brainer to take them to London Tribunals as the penalty remains the same and there are no additional costs to pay.
Title: Re: Parked in restriced hrs bus lane, Gants Hill, Redbridge
Post by: zeezee on July 16, 2024, 10:40:19 am
Is there anything additional I can do to convince the council that they have made a clear mistake in giving the PCN?
Title: Re: Parked in restriced hrs bus lane, Gants Hill, Redbridge
Post by: zeezee on July 15, 2024, 06:09:59 pm
Hi Guys

Looks like Redbridge finally responded with looks like a generic kind of reply.

here is the response. :(

(https://i.imgur.com/7srK4nN.jpeg)
(https://i.imgur.com/K3GvRnU.jpeg)
(https://i.imgur.com/yKH6jbM.jpeg)
Title: Re: Parked in restriced hrs bus lane, Gants Hill, Redbridge
Post by: zeezee on June 04, 2024, 12:12:40 pm
Thank you

I'll get that appeal in now.
Title: Re: Parked in restriced hrs bus lane, Gants Hill, Redbridge
Post by: cp8759 on June 03, 2024, 12:19:25 am
@zeezee formal reps draft:

Dear London Borough of Redbridge,

The contravention alleged on the face of the notice is "01 - Parked in a restricted street during prescribed hours", however as the CEO's photos will confirm my blue badge was properly displayed. By virtue of regulation 8(2) of The Local Authorities' Traffic Orders (Exemptions for Disabled Persons) (England) Regulations 2000, a properly displayed disabled person's badge is a complete defence to the contravention alleged on the face of the penalty charge notice.

Your informal rejection is noted but the contravention alleged on the face of the penalty charge notice has nothing to do with bus lanes, and I am only required to deal with the allegation on the face of the penalty charge notice.

The CEO's photos confirms there are no loading kerb blips at the location where the vehicle was parked, so the blue badge is a complete defence to the matter alleged, it follows that the contravention alleged did not occur and the penalty charge must be cancelled.

The only real question is whether you wish to cancel it now, or whether you wish to incur a £25 tribunal fee in order for the tribunal to direct you to cancel the penalty, however should this become necessary i will contend it is wholly unreasonable for you to reject these representations and you should therefore also pay for my costs.

Yours faithfully,


Again don't forget to take a screenshot of the confirmation page.
Title: Re: Parked in restriced hrs bus lane, Gants Hill, Redbridge
Post by: zeezee on May 31, 2024, 12:38:30 am
Ok guys

My Dad received the nto.

should his reps be similar to his informal appeal?


(https://i.imgur.com/0Al2DNh.jpeg)

(https://i.imgur.com/ZdfuLON.jpeg)

(https://i.imgur.com/KKVrQN6.jpeg)

(https://i.imgur.com/85hkEgQ.jpeg)
Title: Re: Parked in restriced hrs bus lane, Gants Hill, Redbridge
Post by: cp8759 on May 19, 2024, 08:54:52 pm
I suppose, untimely the question is - would the parking restriction signage (allowed parking in a bus lane only in specific times during the day) supersede the blue badge parking on a single yellow line?
No, because there's no kerb blips. With no kerb blips there's no reason for a blue badge holder to look at the signs.
Title: Re: Parked in restriced hrs bus lane, Gants Hill, Redbridge
Post by: zeezee on May 15, 2024, 12:21:33 am
Thank you - that's exactly what I thought when he parked it there...

I suppose, untimely the question is - would the parking restriction signage (allowed parking in a bus lane only in specific times during the day) supersede the blue badge parking on a single yellow line?
Title: Re: Parked in restriced hrs bus lane, Gants Hill, Redbridge
Post by: cp8759 on May 14, 2024, 11:30:49 pm
There are the council photos, which show the the council's case is hopeless:

(https://i.imgur.com/SImJAhx.jpeg)

(https://i.imgur.com/WCapkWv.jpeg)

(https://i.imgur.com/XPDTJ9k.jpeg)

(https://i.imgur.com/RnRAC0G.jpeg)

(https://i.imgur.com/j63tvXn.jpeg)

(https://i.imgur.com/K1ZmYdm.jpeg)

There's basically no way you could lose this: single yellow line with no kerb blips and a blue badge on display.
Title: Re: Parked in restriced hrs bus lane, Gants Hill, Redbridge
Post by: zeezee on May 06, 2024, 02:28:28 pm
Thanks all for the quick replies.

1. I have now edited the above letter to show the PCN details.
1. Yes, I can confirm, that he was driving and the letter was sent from his email addy with the reply (from the council) going to his home address. On this occasion, I was with him on the journey as a passenger.
2. He is the RK of the vehicle.
3. The photos were mine, but the council's photos are quite similar. (if you want me to post the council photos for ease, I can do so - not a problem).
Title: Re: Parked in restriced hrs bus lane, Gants Hill, Redbridge
Post by: cp8759 on May 06, 2024, 01:10:30 pm
@zeezee the rejection is nonsense, if they wanted to issue a bus lane PCN it would have been code 34 - being in a bus lane, and it would have been issued under the London Local Authorities Act 1996, not the Traffic Management Act 2004. The council cannot mix and match in this way.

However it would be useful to see the council photos so please give us the number plate.

The next step is to wait for the notice to owner.
Title: Re: Parked in restriced hrs bus lane, Gants Hill, Redbridge
Post by: H C Andersen on May 06, 2024, 12:29:39 pm
OP, as you have time can we sort out who's who and what's what pl.

Your first post states that your Dad was driving, but subsequent posts refer to 'I' from which I infer you, not your Dad.

Who submitted the informal reps and to whom is the council's reply addressed?

This makes a difference because a NTO is sent to the registered keeper and only they may submit formal reps. So, who is the RK and are their DVLA details current?


The photos. Are these yours, the council's or a mix? As you've deleted the VRM we cannot look at the council's photos, you might reinstate the VRM as this will make life easier as the matter progresses. It is important that if there is a council photo(s) of the BB on the dashboard that we see this.

As regards any possible request for the CEO's notes under GDPR(I'll take advice as to whether this even falls within its scope because none of this could refer to an individual but rather an unnamed person or a vehicle), this could only refer to the driver and therefore if the RK was not the driver then they could not make such a request on the driver's behalf.

Just some details to be clarified before a NTO arrives.
Title: Re: Parked in restriced hrs bus lane, Gants Hill, Redbridge
Post by: guest17 on May 06, 2024, 11:28:50 am
OP---stick with it.

Forget about the bus lane; the PCN is a Code 01 so is governed by the SYL and the sign.

Your Dad in displaying a BB and Clock had every right to park there and the Council are being disingenuous in saying otherwise.

Wait for the NTO and resubmit the same as an appeal.

Mike
Title: Re: Parked in restriced hrs bus lane, Gants Hill, Redbridge
Post by: zeezee on May 06, 2024, 10:53:22 am
Hi All,

Redbridge has responded and has rejected the initial appeal.

Not sure where to go from here now?

(https://i.imgur.com/7R6vW5K.jpeg)

(https://i.imgur.com/AqTwwMM.jpeg)
Title: Re: Parked in restriced hrs bus lane, Gants Hill, Redbridge
Post by: Glitch on April 22, 2024, 02:48:34 pm
I know it's Ringo only in Redbridge these days (from 1st Feb 2024) but the Ticket Machine says Charges Apply Mon-Sat 8:30am - 6:30pm - Disabled Free

Plus the signs still say - Or pay at machine.

Seems misleading to me.

Have the times changes since 1st Feb?
Title: Re: Parked in restriced hrs bus lane, Gants Hill, Redbridge
Post by: zeezee on April 22, 2024, 12:20:08 am
@cp8759 - Thank you

- I'll take that advice on board (and will remember to take that screenshot - just in case the council denied my rep received (but I'm sure I'll get an email confirmation - let's see).

I think I have until this Friday for the 14 days to expire - so I will submit the rep before then.
Title: Re: Parked in restriced hrs bus lane, Gants Hill, Redbridge
Post by: cp8759 on April 22, 2024, 12:08:16 am
@zeezee it's up to you but my recommendation is to send what I drafted exactly as it is. You won't get the CEO's notes in this way so there's no point in asking, you would have to make a subject access request under GDPR but that would be entirely separate from the representations process. I also don't see how the CEO's notes would make any difference.
Title: Re: Parked in restriced hrs bus lane, Gants Hill, Redbridge
Post by: zeezee on April 21, 2024, 11:54:31 pm
And to add my 2 pence worth.... maybe to make it easier for the motorist (which they do not), is to have a block on those periods where you can't park on the app (if you did have a smartphone), so for example, if you did try to book a spot between let's say 4-7 pm THE RINGO app would come back with an error message, etc.
-----------

Anyway, I've added @cp8759's response to the potential rep.

Is this ok to send off?
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ref: PCN  VRM

I challenge this PCN on 2 fronts:

1. The wording of the PCN in terms of the 28 days period is wrong since it does not comply with Schedule 2 para. 2 @ - https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2022/71/schedule/2 .

(d)that the penalty charge must be paid within the period of 28 days beginning with the date on which the alleged contravention occurred.

2. The contravention alleged on the face of the notice is "01 - Parked in a restricted street during prescribed hours", however as the CEO's photos will confirm my blue badge was properly displayed. By virtue of regulation 8(2) of The Local Authorities' Traffic Orders (Exemptions for Disabled Persons) (England) Regulations 2000, a properly displayed disabled person's badge is a complete defense to the contravention alleged on the face of the penalty charge notice.

In light of this procedural impropriety & regarding the blue badge the penalty charge must be cancelled.

Also, could I kindly request the notes of the parking officer? I managed to meet the parking officer on the day for an explanation of why the PCN was given. He explained that I shouldn't have parked in the bus lane and that I should pay the fine.


Kind Regards

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Title: Re: Parked in restriced hrs bus lane, Gants Hill, Redbridge
Post by: roythebus on April 21, 2024, 11:26:59 pm
With these Ring Go machines, what about those of us to don't posses a smart phone or credit/debit card? How can we be expected to pay for or book parking?
Title: Re: Parked in restriced hrs bus lane, Gants Hill, Redbridge
Post by: Hippocrates on April 21, 2024, 11:07:03 pm
Sorry.
Title: Re: Parked in restriced hrs bus lane, Gants Hill, Redbridge
Post by: cp8759 on April 21, 2024, 05:33:26 pm
@zeezee everyone here seems to have missed the blindingly obvious: the allegation is 01, and a blue badge was on display. A blue badge is a complete defence to a waiting contravention (as long as the parking disc AKA parking clock is correctly displayed and the 3 hour time limit has not been exceeded) and while I appreciate there is a loading restriction, a code 02 is not on the PCN and it's far too late for the council to change it now.

Dear London Borough of Redbridge,

The contravention alleged on the face of the notice is "01 - Parked in a restricted street during prescribed hours", however as the CEO's photos will confirm my blue badge was properly displayed. By virtue of regulation 8(2) of The Local Authorities' Traffic Orders (Exemptions for Disabled Persons) (England) Regulations 2000, a properly displayed disabled person's badge is a complete defence to the contravention alleged on the face of the penalty charge notice.

It follows that the contravention alleged did not occur and the penalty charge must be cancelled.

Yours faithfully,

Send this online and make sure to keep a screenshot of the confirmation page.
Title: Re: Parked in restriced hrs bus lane, Gants Hill, Redbridge
Post by: zeezee on April 17, 2024, 06:56:24 pm
Thank you - So will the following be ok to send off?
--------

Ref: PCN  VRM

I challenge this PCN as follows:

The wording of the PCN in terms of the 28 days period is wrong since it does not comply with Schedule 2 para. 2 @ - https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2022/71/schedule/2 .

(d)that the penalty charge must be paid within the period of 28 days beginning with the date on which the alleged contravention occurred,

In light of this procedural impropriety please cancel the PCN.

Also, could I kindly request the notes of the parking officer? I managed to meet the parking officer on the day for an explaination of why the PCN was given. He explained that I shouldn't have parked in the bus lane and that I should pay the fine.
Title: Re: Parked in restriced hrs bus lane, Gants Hill, Redbridge
Post by: Hippocrates on April 14, 2024, 02:28:38 pm
I would leave out the bit I can't find at present.  You can ask for the notes.
Title: Re: Parked in restriced hrs bus lane, Gants Hill, Redbridge
Post by: zeezee on April 14, 2024, 12:49:07 pm
The CEO should not have said what they allegedly said. Require their notes I would. There is a potential wording issue.

Ref: PCN  VRM

       
I challenge this PCN as follows:

The wording of the PCN in terms of the 28 days period is wrong since it does not comply with Schedule 2 para. 2 @
  https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2022/71/schedule/2

(d)that the penalty charge must be paid within the period of 28 days beginning with the date on which the alleged contravention occurred,

In light of this procedural impropriety please cancel the PCN.

*************
Also, I cannot find the old Regulation 3(2)(b) re if we serve a Notice to Owner notwithstanding any representations being made, you must make representations as per the NTO?

@Hippocrites - I'll follow your procedure and appeal - Thank you

Re: Asking for the notes - can I ask that in the appeal as a side note?
Title: Re: Parked in restriced hrs bus lane, Gants Hill, Redbridge
Post by: Hippocrates on April 13, 2024, 12:51:11 pm
The CEO should not have said what they allegedly said. Require their notes I would. There is a potential wording issue.

Ref: PCN  VRM

       
I challenge this PCN as follows:

The wording of the PCN in terms of the 28 days period is wrong since it does not comply with Schedule 2 para. 2 @
  https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2022/71/schedule/2

(d)that the penalty charge must be paid within the period of 28 days beginning with the date on which the alleged contravention occurred,

In light of this procedural impropriety please cancel the PCN.

*************
Also, I cannot find the old Regulation 3(2)(b) re if we serve a Notice to Owner notwithstanding any representations being made, you must make representations as per the NTO?
Title: Re: Parked in restriced hrs bus lane, Gants Hill, Redbridge
Post by: jackdee85 on April 13, 2024, 11:56:51 am
Where you have parked is a BUS lane during 7.00 am to 10.00 am and then from 4.00 pm to 7.00 pm.
Title: Re: Parked in restriced hrs bus lane, Gants Hill, Redbridge
Post by: zeezee on April 13, 2024, 11:37:32 am
I cannot see that specifically on the machine, only the disabled sign with FREE underneath it.

Title: Re: Parked in restriced hrs bus lane, Gants Hill, Redbridge
Post by: Incandescent on April 13, 2024, 01:31:17 am
Quote
My Dad parked in Gants Hill to do some shopping & displayed his disabled blue badge, after confirming (from the paying machine) that it was ok to do so i.e. not needing to go on to the (Ringo app) and booking a free slot for an hour, etc
OK, so where on the machine does it confirm that he could park as a BB holder by displaying the BB only ?
Title: Parked in restriced hrs bus lane, Gants Hill, Redbridge
Post by: zeezee on April 13, 2024, 01:08:48 am
Hi All,

My Dad parked in Gants Hill to do some shopping & displayed his disabled blue badge, after confirming (from the paying machine) that it was ok to do so i.e. not needing to go on to the (Ringo app) and booking a free slot for an hour, etc

He returned to the car to find a PCN tucked under the wiper and found out from the street signage (that he drove past) that it was prohibited during the hours of 4-7 pm.

He had seen the parking walden and explained to him that if it had displayed the specific parking restrictions on the paying machine, he would not have parked, etc, but the parking walden laughed it off and walked away and said you need to pay the fine.

Does my Dad have a chance to appeal the PCN or is he bang to rights here, better off paying the fine?

Street View:
https://www.google.com/maps/@51.5750635,0.066364,3a,75y,6.54h,98.2t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sxshUDkxeeznY8k3qVEwS3A!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu

(https://i.imgur.com/Z9dDPLZ.jpeg)

(https://i.imgur.com/oorsNAJ.jpeg)

(https://i.imgur.com/bMM5zgJ.jpeg)

(https://i.imgur.com/QFmdz88.jpeg)

(https://i.imgur.com/qPkmpcM.jpeg)

(https://i.imgur.com/dEsLXKK.jpeg)

(https://i.imgur.com/rKM3WDb.jpeg)