Free Traffic Legal Advice

Live cases legal advice => Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) => Topic started by: PCN fines on July 07, 2023, 08:31:25 pm

Title: Re: PCN received at Twine Court E1
Post by: cp8759 on June 04, 2024, 12:19:39 am
Outcome (https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Vx6qmpMmP4saMt8LHTEQ3D9bBkXt0bXL/view).
Title: Re: PCN received at Twine Court E1
Post by: Incandescent on December 10, 2023, 05:12:37 pm
If you pay the PCN that's it, you have foregone the option to submit representations and to appeal to adjudicators
Title: Re: PCN received at Twine Court E1
Post by: PCN fines on December 10, 2023, 04:54:51 pm
So should I appeal to the tribunal or pay and make a complaint to the council about no parking for disabled people and hope to get PCN cancelled or refunded
Title: Re: PCN received at Twine Court E1
Post by: mrmustard on December 10, 2023, 10:21:37 am
I have 5 tribunal decisions by 2 seasoned adjudicators that the Pcn 28 day wording is wrong. CP8759 also has one from Portsmouth. I 95% expect to win your case if instructed. Email mrmustard@zoho.com

One of the tribunal decisions is 2230487346
Title: Re: PCN received at Twine Court E1
Post by: Incandescent on December 10, 2023, 12:04:26 am
OK, so they've re-offered the discount, but there is some real tosh in their letter

"It remains the responsibility of the driver to check in advance what the parking provisions are. This can be done by researching online or asking the people you are visiting"
and
"There are parking provisions throughout London, so checking parking provisions or restrictions in advance of a visit should be common practice"

Really ? So where is all this written down as a requirement of motorists ?

The motorist should be able to rely on traffic signs at his destination. That is the legally mandated method of informing motorists of restrictions defined in traffic orders. So when I decide to visit my cousin in Peebles, I need to go on-line to check the Peebles traffic restrictions ?

I think I'd be strongly tempted to take them to London Tribunals, but it's your money not mine.
Title: Re: PCN received at Twine Court E1
Post by: PCN fines on December 09, 2023, 10:21:01 pm
Hi there,
Got a reply back to the appeal
Please advise if I should appeal to tribunal.
Also does the PCN need to be signed or not.
Thanks

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: PCN received at Twine Court E1
Post by: cp8759 on September 29, 2023, 11:47:49 pm
What are the chances of winning this and does it help that the photos don’t show the car registration number
Hard to say, and no the issue of the car reg doesn't help at all.

The key point is that at this stage the discount is not on offer, so as long as you don't miss any deadlines the penalty from here on can only go down (possibly to zero), it cannot go up. So there's no point in paying now, you might as well challenge.
Title: Re: PCN received at Twine Court E1
Post by: PCN fines on September 27, 2023, 10:09:48 pm
What are the chances of winning this and does it help that the photos don’t show the car registration number
Title: Re: PCN received at Twine Court E1
Post by: cp8759 on September 22, 2023, 11:00:01 pm
Send the same representation again.
Title: Re: PCN received at Twine Court E1
Post by: PCN fines on September 21, 2023, 11:32:28 pm
Hi all,
I got the notice to owner.
Please see attached and kindly advise.
Thanks
https://ibb.co/JrwFC5h%0Ahttps://ibb.co/dQd5f2r%0Ahttps://ibb.co/DgZQttw%0Ahttps://ibb.co/9vKRB2Y%0Ahttps://ibb.co/mb9PRXQ

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: PCN received at Twine Court E1
Post by: cp8759 on August 27, 2023, 06:46:42 pm
I don't think it's a pay and display or shared use parking place, so I'm not sure that the exemption applies.

Nonetheless, I would wait for the Notice to Owner and make representations again, as the council is legally require to consider them afresh.
Title: Re: PCN received at Twine Court E1
Post by: PCN fines on August 25, 2023, 03:33:56 pm
Hi
Does anyone have any other suggestions on how I can appeal and win this.

The photos does not show the car registration number isn’t it a requirement that it has to be on the photos and the sign is quite high maybe more then 7 feet. Don’t know if that is more than the legal limit.
Thanks
Title: Re: PCN received at Twine Court E1
Post by: guest17 on August 19, 2023, 10:50:43 pm
I still think that 6(a)(iii) of the Order exempts a Blue Badge vehicle regardless of the signage going into this car park.

a vehicle which is waiting in any pay and display or shared use parking
place which is not suspended and with blue badge holder availability
and displaying a valid blue badge and where required a parking disc.


Not particlarly clear but it seems to offer an exemption.

Mike
Title: Re: PCN received at Twine Court E1
Post by: PCN fines on August 18, 2023, 05:24:45 pm
Hi,
I got a reply back from the council please see attached and advise what I can do.
Thanks

https://ibb.co/dp32tJx
https://ibb.co/6R7g9Cm
Title: Re: PCN received at Twine Court E1
Post by: cp8759 on July 18, 2023, 11:27:55 pm
OP, photo no.4, presumably taken by the CEO, shows what appears to be your car outside a bay with the driver's door open!
That's not a CEO photo.
Title: Re: PCN received at Twine Court E1
Post by: guest179 on July 18, 2023, 08:16:32 am

OP, photo no.4, presumably taken by the CEO, shows what appears to be your car outside a bay with the driver's door open!
Title: Re: PCN received at Twine Court E1
Post by: PCN fines on July 18, 2023, 12:41:39 am
Ok
Thanks will do
Does it give me any advantage that the photos don’t show the car registration number if they don’t cancel and I have to appeal
Title: Re: PCN received at Twine Court E1
Post by: cp8759 on July 16, 2023, 10:11:06 pm
Draft representation, there is no boarding / alighting exemption here so it's down to a plea for discretion:

Dear London Borough of Tower Hamlets,

I would ask that the council consider cancelling the penalty charge notice for the following reasons. I had dropped my mum off to visit some relatives who live on the estate, who are unfortunately unaware of the parking provisions as they don't get many visitors who have a car. When it was time to pick her up, I stopped briefly in the bay with my mum's blue badge clearly displayed.

I had to go to the third floor to pick her up, as she has mobility issues and would not have been able to make it down to the car without assistance. I appreciate the observation time is quite long, but taking an elderly person with mobility issues down numerous flights of stairs is a time-consuming task as she can only take so many steps before having to stop for a break.

My car was only stopped temporarily for as long as was necessary for me to collect my mother, now that I am aware of the parking restriction I will of course make sure to obtain a permit on future occasions, but I would ask that on this one occasion you please consider exercising your discretion to cancel the penalty charge.

I attach both sides of her blue badge for your records.

Yours faithfully,
Title: Re: PCN received at Twine Court E1
Post by: PCN fines on July 16, 2023, 11:06:20 am
I dropped her off downstairs and the relatives took her up but I picked her up so I had to park up and go up to the 3rd floor and then get her ready and bring her down the stairs no lift it takes time to get her ready
Title: Re: PCN received at Twine Court E1
Post by: cp8759 on July 14, 2023, 12:24:58 am
It’s the first time I have been to the estate and did not know that tower hamlets estate had the same parking policy as the off road parking policy.
But you've now said you've dropped her off, so it can't have been the first time? It must have been at least the second time?

There's a 19 minute observation time, that time needs to be justified in full.

How far was it from the front door to the car?
Title: Re: PCN received at Twine Court E1
Post by: PCN fines on July 13, 2023, 11:51:21 pm
My mum went visiting I dropped her off and then picked her up,
They don’t use visitors permit and don’t know anything about it as they don’t get many visitors with car. And she went first time after covid as she has difficulty going up the stairs as the building does not have lifts.
Title: Re: PCN received at Twine Court E1
Post by: cp8759 on July 12, 2023, 11:13:17 pm
Sorry one last thing before I draft something, is it your mum who lives at this estate or was she visiting someone? In either event, does the person who lives there not have visitor permits? Or do they just not know anything about it?

The fact that it's your partners car doesn't matter at this stage, but at the Notice to Owner stage only they have a right to challenge the penalty, but they can give you written authorisation to do so on their behalf.
Title: Re: PCN received at Twine Court E1
Post by: PCN fines on July 12, 2023, 08:03:31 pm
It’s my mums.
Also I forgot got to mention the car is registered to my partner but I was driving don’t know if that makes a difference.
Thanks
Title: Re: PCN received at Twine Court E1
Post by: cp8759 on July 12, 2023, 11:12:17 am
OK there's enough there to make a reasonable representation, can I please just check is the blue badge yours or your mum's?
Title: Re: PCN received at Twine Court E1
Post by: PCN fines on July 11, 2023, 11:30:25 pm
I didn’t see the sign when I entered.
It’s the first time I have been to the estate and did not know that tower hamlets estate had the same parking policy as the off road parking policy.
I did not see any sign for disabled bay when I drove around but this bay did not have any sign say visitors permit holders only or anything like that just marking on the ground.
I was only parked for a short period when I went to pick up My mum who has disability and the building does not have a lift so get ready and her down takes a long time.
Just look at the sign when I saw the ticket seems a bit high and also doesn’t the photos of the vehicle needs to show the vehicle registration number
Title: Re: PCN received at Twine Court E1
Post by: cp8759 on July 11, 2023, 07:19:06 pm
Yes your link is working, I have also got The Tower Hamlets (Off-Street Parking Places) (Amendment No.1) Order 2021 (https://drive.google.com/uc?id=14wJrsW3lDcw7Uw5MFU8znlqZ6NwAaQt4).

There is nothing intrinsically wrong with the order or the signage, but we'd expect reasonable for the authority to exercise discretion for a blue badge holder.

What's the back story to the PCN? Was it your first time parking here or had you been before? Did you look for any signs when you got out of the car?
Title: Re: PCN received at Twine Court E1
Post by: PCN fines on July 10, 2023, 10:36:39 pm
Is the link to the location working.
Title: Re: PCN received at Twine Court E1
Post by: PCN fines on July 09, 2023, 07:33:01 pm
https://www.instantstreetview.com/@51.511105,-0.054808,143.4h,3.89p,1.63z,Cu3KTQphgFhW-8L8HA4V4g
Title: Re: PCN received at Twine Court E1
Post by: PCN fines on July 09, 2023, 06:43:29 pm
https://www.google.com/maps/place/51.511068,+-0.054657/@51.5110403,-0.0546287,20z/data=!4m4!3m3!8m2!3d51.5110679!4d-0.0546568

This is the location on the map hope you can see it just at the beginning of the street
Title: Re: PCN received at Twine Court E1
Post by: cp8759 on July 07, 2023, 08:50:28 pm
Can you please give us a link to the exact location on google street view, or at least as close as you can get?

The photos of the signage are a bit odd as they don't show where they are in relation to the car.

I have also requested the parking places order, oddly enough this estate isn't included in The Tower Hamlets (Off-Street Parking Places) (Consolidation) Order 2021 (https://drive.google.com/uc?id=12WOu5m7RQLC-Ij1HDTMmC_NuQdvvsams), though it's possible there might have been a later amendment.
Title: PCN received at Twine Court E1
Post by: PCN fines on July 07, 2023, 08:31:25 pm
Hi all,

Need some advice please.
I got a PCN at an estate road while I was parked in a visitor bay displaying a blue badge.
The bay did not have a sign like other visitors bay do in that estate.
The photos taken by the ceo does not show the registration number of my car.
And I also think the sign at the entrance is a lot higher than it would normally be.
The parking website shows ticket amount as £65 and not £130.
Please advise how I can best challenge this PCN I have attached everything below.

Thanks

https://ibb.co/mvSRMX0
https://ibb.co/JFnDZgc
https://ibb.co/9s7QqBX
https://ibb.co/Rc6M1Qc
https://ibb.co/mJGHPmX
https://ibb.co/DCDVGx1
https://ibb.co/vQndHhL
https://ibb.co/Zdg658S
https://ibb.co/Pz5m85H
https://ibb.co/wy9s72V
https://ibb.co/D4XxxhS