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Live cases legal advice => Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) => Topic started by: cyril on July 06, 2023, 09:54:13 pm

Title: Re: 34J BEING IN A BUS LANE- TITHEBARN ST, BUS LANE PENANLTY CHARGE NOTICE- LANCASHIRE COUNTY COUNCIL.
Post by: RVC19852 on September 14, 2024, 05:09:43 pm
Hi,

Sorry, I didn’t mean to break any rules (enough of that going on). I just couldn’t work out if they were in the wrong originally or not - and what was missing on the PCN.
Title: Re: 34J BEING IN A BUS LANE- TITHEBARN ST, BUS LANE PENANLTY CHARGE NOTICE- LANCASHIRE COUNTY COUNCIL.
Post by: John U.K. on September 14, 2024, 03:17:31 pm
Quote from: RVC19852 on September 14, 2024, 02:02:01 pm
Can I check - was the driver actually in the bus lane? What was actually wrong with the PCN?

I am asking as I have recently received a fine for the same offence on this road.

Apparently the PCN was missing some statutory grounds - see opening post and reply#2.

However that said, you need to have a read of
https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/read-this-first-before-posting-your-case!-this-section-is-for-council-tfl-dartme/

and start your own thread (foruim rule - one case per thread). By all means reference this thread, and post there

a brief account of the circumstances,
all sides of the PCN (redact only yr name and address),
any video evidence,and a GSV link to the location.

What was the dste of the PCN? (this governs the whole enforcement process.)
Title: Re: 34J BEING IN A BUS LANE- TITHEBARN ST, BUS LANE PENANLTY CHARGE NOTICE- LANCASHIRE COUNTY COUNCIL.
Post by: RVC19852 on September 14, 2024, 02:02:01 pm
Can I check - was the driver actually in the bus lane? What was actually wrong with the PCN?

I am asking as I have recently received a fine for the same offence on this road.
Title: Re: 34J BEING IN A BUS LANE- TITHEBARN ST, BUS LANE PENANLTY CHARGE NOTICE- LANCASHIRE COUNTY COUNCIL.
Post by: cp8759 on July 27, 2023, 05:15:12 pm
DNC'ed:

(https://i.imgur.com/w4TcXtL.png)
Title: Re: 34J BEING IN A BUS LANE- TITHEBARN ST, BUS LANE PENANLTY CHARGE NOTICE- LANCASHIRE COUNTY COUNCIL.
Post by: cp8759 on July 12, 2023, 10:19:00 pm
I'll drop you a PM.
Title: Re: 34J BEING IN A BUS LANE- TITHEBARN ST, BUS LANE PENANLTY CHARGE NOTICE- LANCASHIRE COUNTY COUNCIL.
Post by: cyril on July 12, 2023, 08:00:02 pm
Hi cp8759
Thank you for your reply.

He would like to go to Tribunal, i was just waiting for his conformation.

I told him we have a chance, as these guy knows their stuff.
Title: Re: 34J BEING IN A BUS LANE- TITHEBARN ST, BUS LANE PENANLTY CHARGE NOTICE- LANCASHIRE COUNTY COUNCIL.
Post by: cp8759 on July 12, 2023, 03:50:47 pm
Would your work colleague like me to represent him at the tribunal?

As I've said above, it's very hard to see how the council could possibly succeed given their PCN is missing two statutory grounds.
Title: Re: 34J BEING IN A BUS LANE- TITHEBARN ST, BUS LANE PENANLTY CHARGE NOTICE- LANCASHIRE COUNTY COUNCIL.
Post by: cyril on July 12, 2023, 03:28:32 pm
Hi Guys
I have received a response from Parking services from LCC.

They did not cancel the bus lane penalty.



 


https://imgur.com/ng0wcdq
Title: Re: 34J BEING IN A BUS LANE- TITHEBARN ST, BUS LANE PENANLTY CHARGE NOTICE- LANCASHIRE COUNTY COUNCIL.
Post by: cyril on July 06, 2023, 11:41:48 pm
Hi cp8759
I have sent the draft letter to LCC on behalf my colleague, so wait for their reply.

Noted about the 28Days for this pcn , not 14Days.

Thanks again and i will keep you updated.
Title: Re: 34J BEING IN A BUS LANE- TITHEBARN ST, BUS LANE PENANLTY CHARGE NOTICE- LANCASHIRE COUNTY COUNCIL.
Post by: cp8759 on July 06, 2023, 11:36:09 pm
Quote from: cyril on July 06, 2023, 11:15:30 pm
My work Colleague got till 24Th July otherwise he loses 50% discount.
The PCN is invalid so the 50% discount is irrelevant as you should appeal to the tribunal if they reject.

Quote from: cyril on July 06, 2023, 11:15:30 pm
If they dont accept , does the Bus lane pcn not have a rule where it exceeds more than 14 Days then it is void.
They almost certainly won't accept, if that happens I will sort out the tribunal appeal for you. The time limit for this sort of PCN is 28 days, not 14.
Title: Re: 34J BEING IN A BUS LANE- TITHEBARN ST, BUS LANE PENANLTY CHARGE NOTICE- LANCASHIRE COUNTY COUNCIL.
Post by: cyril on July 06, 2023, 11:15:30 pm
Thanks cp8759.

My work Colleague got till 24Th July otherwise he loses 50% discount.

I will send your draft letter on the LCC link.

If they dont accept , does the Bus lane pcn not have a rule where it exceeds more than 14 Days then it is void.

14 Days counting from 17/06/2023 to 04/07/2023 and 2 working days of date of service.
Title: Re: 34J BEING IN A BUS LANE- TITHEBARN ST, BUS LANE PENANLTY CHARGE NOTICE- LANCASHIRE COUNTY COUNCIL.
Post by: cp8759 on July 06, 2023, 11:03:41 pm
No you don't need to copy and paste all of that, they should have a copy of the regulations and if they don't, well they can go on legislation.gov.uk and look them up.

The draft as it is is fine and you might even get a failure to consider as a bonus.
Title: Re: 34J BEING IN A BUS LANE- TITHEBARN ST, BUS LANE PENANLTY CHARGE NOTICE- LANCASHIRE COUNTY COUNCIL.
Post by: cyril on July 06, 2023, 10:53:49 pm
Thanks cp8759.

Do i need to add the below or just the letter you have drafted.

Representations against the enforcement notice
5.—(1) The recipient may make representations against the enforcement notice to the enforcement authority which served it on the recipient.

(2) The representations must be—

(a)made in the form determined by the enforcement authority, and
(b)to either or both of the following effects—
(i)that in relation to the alleged contravention, one or more of the grounds specified in paragraph (4) apply;
(ii)that, whether or not any of those grounds apply, there are compelling reasons why, in the particular circumstances of the case, the enforcement authority should cancel the penalty charge and refund any sum paid to it on account of the penalty charge.
(3) In determining the form for making representations, the enforcement authority must act through the joint committee.

(4) The grounds mentioned in paragraph (2)(b)(i) are—

(a)the alleged contravention did not occur;
(b)the recipient—
(i)never was the owner of the vehicle in question,
(ii)had ceased to be its owner before the alleged contravention occurred, or
(iii)became its owner after the alleged contravention occurred;
©at the time that the alleged contravention occurred, the vehicle in question was in the control of a person who did not have the consent of the owner;
(d)the recipient is a vehicle-hire firm and—
(i)the vehicle in question was at the material time hired from that firm under a hiring agreement, and
(ii)the person hiring it had signed a statement of liability acknowledging their liability in respect of any penalty charge notice served in respect of any relevant road traffic contravention involving the vehicle during the currency of the hiring agreement;
(e)the penalty charge exceeded the amount applicable in the circumstances of the case;
(f)there has been a procedural impropriety on the part of the enforcement authority;
(g)the order which is alleged to have been contravened in relation to the vehicle concerned, except where it is an order to which Part 6 of Schedule 9 to the RTRA 1984 applies, is invalid;
(h)if a regulation 10 penalty charge notice is served under regulation 10(2)(b) or © of the 2022 General Regulations, no person prevented a civil enforcement officer from—
(i)fixing a regulation 9 penalty charge notice to the vehicle concerned, or
(ii)handing such a notice to the owner or person in charge of the vehicle;
(i)the enforcement notice should not have been served because—
(i)the penalty charge has already been paid in full, or
(ii)the penalty charge has been paid, reduced by the amount of any discount set in accordance with Schedule 9 to the TMA 2004, by the applicable date as specified in paragraph 1(3) of Schedule 3 to the 2022 General Regulations.
Title: Re: 34J BEING IN A BUS LANE- TITHEBARN ST, BUS LANE PENANLTY CHARGE NOTICE- LANCASHIRE COUNTY COUNCIL.
Post by: cp8759 on July 06, 2023, 10:43:02 pm
Draft reps:

Dear Lancashire County Council,

I challenge liability for PCN LQ51848198 on the basis of a procedural impropriety.

The statutory grounds of appeal at regulation 5(4)(f) and (g) of The Civil Enforcement of Road Traffic Contraventions (Representations and Appeals) (England) Regulations 2022 are missing from the PCN that has been served. That is a procedural impropriety on the basis of which the council's position is plainly hopeless.

Yours faithfully,

This has to be sent by whoever is named on the PCN. If the PCN was issued to your work colleague personally, the reps have to be made by him. If it's a company vehicle and he's an employee of the company, he can make reps on behalf of the company but he should use a work email address (if he has one) and he should add "for and on behalf of Company Name Limited" under his signature.
Title: 34J BEING IN A BUS LANE- TITHEBARN ST, BUS LANE PENANLTY CHARGE NOTICE- LANCASHIRE COUNTY COUNCIL.
Post by: cyril on July 06, 2023, 09:54:13 pm
Hi Guys
My Work Colleague just received the bus lane penalty charge notice from Lancashire county council.

Any chance of appeal.

Date and time of detection 17/06/2023 11:44am

Date of Notice and date of posting 04/07/2023

This is a lease car, so i don't know if he has received this letter directly to his home address or the lease holder address and may have told the LCC the driver name and address.

Reg number LS23BWE
PCN Number LQ51848198

https://imgur.com/0rCte8M
https://imgur.com/5MV5H1W
https://imgur.com/9aop9UU
https://imgur.com/gfmMYcm


https://www.google.com/maps/@53.7616453,-2.6973051,3a,75y,141.33h,87.28t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sBoRJFTUMQTTiTAbX2RhLZA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu

https://www.blogpreston.co.uk/2021/02/bus-lane-on-tithebarn-street-made-permanent/


https://lancashire.tarantoportal.com/PCN/Ge...2A879618B919D0F

https://lancashire.tarantoportal.com/

Your replies much appreciated.

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