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Live cases legal advice => Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) => Topic started by: erv_22 on April 04, 2024, 01:31:38 pm

Title: Re: Manchester, code 12 parked in permit holder street, Lausanne Road - Breakdown
Post by: cp8759 on June 30, 2024, 05:03:12 pm
Given we're inundated with cases at the moment, I'm really really happy we don't have to take this to the tribunal (https://emoji.tapatalk-cdn.com/emoji2.png)
Title: Re: Manchester, code 12 parked in permit holder street, Lausanne Road - Breakdown
Post by: erv_22 on June 29, 2024, 08:12:58 pm
Hi, just wanted to give an update with this. They accepted the appeal and cancelled the PCN!

Thank you for all the advice and guidance through all this.

Link to cancellation letter: https://imgur.com/a/hPsscuo
Title: Re: Manchester, code 12 parked in permit holder street, Lausanne Road - Breakdown
Post by: cp8759 on June 03, 2024, 05:27:19 pm
@erv_22 for later reference here are:

The City of Manchester (The Christie Area) (Prohibition and Restriction of Waiting, Parking Places and Amendment) Order 2015 (https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Vieae485ZBRPDEfLwMsF8uqjz_gyCMjq/view)
The City of Manchester (The Christie Area) (Prohibition and Restriction of Waiting, Parking Places and Amendment ) No. 1 Order 2016 (https://drive.google.com/file/d/1TwCxraejv5ODupyDpfULmg72_uqVhne2/view)
The City of Manchester (The Christie Area) (Prohibition and Restriction of Waiting and Loading Unloading, Parking Places and Amendment) No.2 Order 2016 (https://drive.google.com/file/d/1G7tFGGle_Hw6l8KIj2tRoAEpYimQ5R9Q/view)
The City of Manchester (The Christie Area) (Prohibition and Restriction of Waiting, Parking Places and Amendment) Order 2015 (Amendment No 3) Order 2017 (https://drive.google.com/file/d/1a9-T5cFRhW7gFsaBWQ3Lq7pitDNxfqqX/view)
The City of Manchester (The Christie Area) (Prohibition and Restriction of Waiting, Parking Places and Amendment) (Order 2015) (Amendment No.4) Order 2022 (https://drive.google.com/file/d/1lXvKHy5KP7ogrqzs_hb-wfqQtshroohq/view)
The City of Manchester (The Christie Area) (Prohibition and Restriction of Waiting, Parking Places and Amendment) (Order 2015) (Amendment No.5) Order 2023 (https://drive.google.com/file/d/11V8y497vYSvMCoGpb8F4R5OcVZXgD4US/view)
Title: Re: Manchester, code 12 parked in permit holder street, Lausanne Road - Breakdown
Post by: cp8759 on June 03, 2024, 12:11:19 am
That's an excellent draft, I'd just suggest that before the last paragraph you add:

As my vehicle broke down prior to the start of the restricted hours, I was prevented from moving my vehicle owing to circumstances beyond my control and I made all reasonable efforts to summon the assistance of my breakdown company. It follows that the contravention did not occur.

Remember to keep a screenshot of the confirmation page.
Title: Re: Manchester, code 12 parked in permit holder street, Lausanne Road - Breakdown
Post by: erv_22 on May 30, 2024, 11:30:44 pm
Hi,

I've drafted a formal representation. I thought that focusing on the time of the call would be best as that was the reason stated for the rejection of the inital appeal. Please let me know if I need to change anything!




Parking ticket number: MC28146993

Vehicle registration number: YT03 ONH

Date of Penalty Notice: 02/04/2024

I am writing to make a formal appeal with regards to the above parking ticket.

At the time of the alleged contravention my vehicle was broken down due to reasons beyond my control and could not be moved.

On my previous appeal, I submitted evidence of this by way of the RAC breakdown report when they attended (please see attached). This was rejected on the basis that the breakdown evidence was insufficient. The reason given was the following:

“The report provided states the call to RAC was made at 15:36, however, the vehicle was already parked in contravention prior to this.”

I would like to submit further evidence to be considered that includes call logs made from my mobile phone to the RAC (please see attached). The breakdown report states the time of the RAC call that successfully resulted in a patrol attending my vehicle. However as you can see, this was not my first call and many were made before the time of contravention.

The time of the alleged contravention was 08:58 on the 2nd April 2024. My first call to the RAC as shown in the call logs was 19:45 on 1st April 2024. From this time to 15:36 on the 2nd April I had made and received multiple calls from both the RAC call center number (0333 200 0999) and their local number (01922 437200).

I trust that in light of this further evidence you will agree to cancel the PCN.

Title: Re: Manchester, code 12 parked in permit holder street, Lausanne Road - Breakdown
Post by: erv_22 on May 28, 2024, 02:13:24 pm
Sorry couldn't fit them all on one post

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: Manchester, code 12 parked in permit holder street, Lausanne Road - Breakdown
Post by: erv_22 on May 28, 2024, 02:12:14 pm
I've collected my call logs from the day of breakdown and the next day the ticket was issued. These include the RAC, 3rd party tow truck and Manchester Council (after noticing the fine). I've also included a word document with a time line referencing each call with an explanation of events.

I'm going to call the RAC and third party tow to see if they can send me any more records to support this.

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: Manchester, code 12 parked in permit holder street, Lausanne Road - Breakdown
Post by: cp8759 on May 27, 2024, 09:09:44 pm
@erv_22 I think we can actually get this cancelled without even getting to the tribunal, all I need is a screenshot from your call history showing the telephone calls you made to the RAC the day before.
Title: Re: Manchester, code 12 parked in permit holder street, Lausanne Road - Breakdown
Post by: erv_22 on May 25, 2024, 03:44:04 pm
Sorry couldn't attach all the images at once.

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: Manchester, code 12 parked in permit holder street, Lausanne Road - Breakdown
Post by: erv_22 on May 25, 2024, 03:42:25 pm
Thanks, its good to know as I do find the whole process a bit intimidating. I've recieved the notice to owner and have attached the images. I will draft a response this weekend and will post it here before sending.

In terms of the specified grounds section, I presume I will be appealing on 'other grounds' as the other options aren't applicable to my situation. Is that correct?

Thank you for all your help so far.

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: Manchester, code 12 parked in permit holder street, Lausanne Road - Breakdown
Post by: cp8759 on May 17, 2024, 11:06:01 pm
Thanks for the replies. Just to confirm, it's worth appealing rather than paying the discounted amount?
Well at the next stage the NTO will demand the full amount, but as long as you make a representation within 14 days any subsequent rejection will reoffer the discount again (to give you an incentive not to appeal further), so it would be a bit silly to pay anything now.

That being said, it's clear that there are grounds for taking this all the way in any event.
Title: Re: Manchester, code 12 parked in permit holder street, Lausanne Road - Breakdown
Post by: erv_22 on May 12, 2024, 11:22:06 pm
Yes, I submitted the reps as drafted, so with no explanation on the time differences between the RAC report and the time of the offence.

I'm just wondering before the 14 days for the discounted amount runs out, if I were to explain the situation in detail and why I was towed there for the garage, would that be a suitable defence? As if it's unlikely, I might be better of paying up now at the reduced then waiting for the notice to owner.
Title: Re: Manchester, code 12 parked in permit holder street, Lausanne Road - Breakdown
Post by: H C Andersen on May 10, 2024, 07:23:14 pm
OP, may we see the reps you submitted pl.

If they were as drafted, then I cannot really find fault with the response which, in essence, says that the OP hasn't explained why they were parked in contravention in the first place and why their attempt to move didn't commence until nearly 7 hours after the PCN was issued and the restriction started.

Title: Re: Manchester, code 12 parked in permit holder street, Lausanne Road - Breakdown
Post by: erv_22 on May 10, 2024, 11:13:08 am
Thanks for the replies. Just to confirm, it's worth appealing rather than paying the discounted amount?

I'll collate the call logs now and match them with the timeline. I even have the invoice from the garage beside the road for the repair (was a week later as they were busy) but reinforces why I got the car towed there.
Title: Re: Manchester, code 12 parked in permit holder street, Lausanne Road - Breakdown
Post by: Incandescent on May 04, 2024, 12:29:31 am
@erv_22 that's one of the stupidest responses I've ever seen.

Just wait for the notice to owner and we'll draft a formal representation for you, though we'll have to explain the whole saga staring form the night before. It would be helpful if you could post up your call logs showing all the relevant calls from your first call the night before up to the point that the PCN was issued (I imagine there would have been a number of calls over this time period).
I was about to say it was all tosh, but you got there before me ! Of course, it is the usual Fob-Off letter.
Title: Re: Manchester, code 12 parked in permit holder street, Lausanne Road - Breakdown
Post by: cp8759 on May 04, 2024, 12:24:20 am
@erv_22 that's one of the stupidest responses I've ever seen.

Just wait for the notice to owner and we'll draft a formal representation for you, though we'll have to explain the whole saga staring form the night before. It would be helpful if you could post up your call logs showing all the relevant calls from your first call the night before up to the point that the PCN was issued (I imagine there would have been a number of calls over this time period).
Title: Re: Manchester, code 12 parked in permit holder street, Lausanne Road - Breakdown
Post by: erv_22 on May 03, 2024, 08:41:21 pm
I've just got the reply from manchester city council (see attached) to say the appeal has been rejected on the basis that the breakdown call was made after the offence.

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: Manchester, code 12 parked in permit holder street, Lausanne Road - Breakdown
Post by: cp8759 on May 01, 2024, 03:05:00 pm
For later: The City of Manchester (The Christie Area) (Prohibition and Restriction of Waiting, Parking Places and Amendment) (Order 2015) (Amendment No.5) Order 2023 (https://drive.google.com/file/d/11V8y497vYSvMCoGpb8F4R5OcVZXgD4US/view)
Title: Re: Manchester, code 12 parked in permit holder street, Lausanne Road - Breakdown
Post by: cp8759 on April 05, 2024, 12:00:28 am
Well there's a lot going on here and you have to be careful not to say anything misleading, but you are not under any duty to incriminate yourself either.

Here's a simple representation:

Dear Manchester City Council,

At the time of the alleged contravention my vehicle had suffered from a breakdown owing to a fault with the cooling fan. I had to wait a number of hours for an RAC patrol to attend and the vehicle could therefore not be moved from where it was owing to reasons beyond my control.

The RAC did eventually attend and were able to get my vehicle going again, though they advised me to arrange for a permanent repair, I attach a copy of the RAC report for your records.

I trust that in light of the above you will agree to cancel the PCN.

Yours faithfully,

While we wait for a response to that I'll get hold of the traffic order for this road.
Title: Manchester, code 12 parked in permit holder street, Lausanne Road - Breakdown
Post by: erv_22 on April 04, 2024, 01:31:38 pm
Hi, I'm looking to appeal a PCN I was issued yesterday and was advised to post here before starting the process. I have posted the images of the PCN as well as the RAC breakdown report I was given.

Background (sorry if this is too much information):

I broke down on the M62 on Monday night (01/04/2024). Unfortunately RAC didn't have any patrols available so after around 3 hours on the hard shoulder they organised a private tow company to take my car to a garage near where I live in Withington, Manchester. The RAC said to call them the next day and they would take a look and diagnose the issue (as they would have normally if they had patrols available when I broke down, the private tow wasn't a mechanic). As it was a bank holiday and the garage was closed, we dropped the car on a side road next to the garage at around midnight. My intention was for the RAC to finally check the vehicle and to book the necessary repair with the garage.

I called the RAC first thing the next day whilst at work, they were supposed to come at 12:15. I went to the car at lunchtime to wait for the RAC and they didn't arrive and I noticed I had a parking ticket. The parking restrictions were from 8AM-8PM Monday-Friday, I had unloaded the car at midnight and had not seen the signs in the darkness. I had to go back to work and called RAC, they put my case on hold till I finished work and put me back to the end of the queue. I called them again, to restart my case and they finally arrived around 17:30.

They checked the car and diagnosed the issue, the car had overheated due to the engine fan not being connected and not having a socket to connect it (the car is old and was refurbished by a mechanic when I bought it, clearly not very well). My engine had overheated on the motorway as I was in standstill traffic and didn't have a working engine fan (which I did not know, and haven't had this issue before as I usually drive at night). After topping up the coolant and doing some tests, I was lucky and didn't need a major repair, I was able to drive the car home. I will just need to book a re-wiring of the engine fan so it works.

I had taken the car to the garage as I thought it was the safest thing to do. In addition, my home is also on the parking scheme (I do not have a permit as they are tricky to get) and the tow truck would not have been able to get the car on the driveway. So even if I got the car towed home I would have still gotten a ticket. In hindsight, the only option that would have resulted me in not getting a ticket would have been to find a side street further out away from my home and the garage and the permit schemes and get it re-towed should it have needed repair by the garage. But I was tired and exhausted by that point and didn't even realise the garage side street was in the permit scheme as it was dark and I hadn't seen the signs.

I have linked below the RAC report with the PCN notice, it doesn't cover all that happened only when they finally arrived at 17:30 so not sure it will help my argument much. I'm going to contact RAC to see if they can write something with more information.

I'm just looking for advice if its worth appealing and if I need more information. I had got it towed to the garage which and should have been more diligent but once it was there I couldn't move the car when the permit parking came into action at 8AM. It is really tricky as all the roads in my area are permit holder only which is difficult to maneuver when your car is broken down.

PNC & breakdown report (https://imgur.com/a/Imd8CBc)

Also posted on Pepipoo: http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=153809&st=0&p=1812514&#entry1812514


Google Map View of Road (https://maps.app.goo.gl/qupZUXFq2pRnDpUS7)

Council photos (https://imgur.com/a/A9uCOkM)