Free Traffic Legal Advice
General discussion => The Flame Pit => Topic started by: kno on April 04, 2024, 12:19:12 am
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Is this not what airlines do (or at least, what I'm led to believe they do, it might just be a USA thing?) - overbook seats because they know some people won't turn up?
In the days of only full-cost airlines this is/was common, considering that a lot of bookings were on open/flexible tickets, so there would always be a good number of no-shows. With the advent of low-cost airlines where most tickets are non-refundable and check-in can be up to a month in advance, I suspect there are fewer no-shows. Putting Travelodge on the same level of service as RyanAir, does the latter overbook in the same way, and bump people? Even if they'd checked in (which is probably the equivalent of calling the hotel to warn of late arrival)?
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A decision of a circuit judge would presumably be very persuasive (or else) to DJs within that circuit, possibly binding, but merely persuasive to DJs outside of that circuit.
[AIUI] An appeal from a circuit judge would be to a single judge in the High Court (I know that an appeal from the DCJ is) - once again no binding precedent - which is why HHJ Moloney directed that Beavis was leapfrogged to the Court of Appeal.
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Sue in small claims - lose - appeal to a Circuit Judge - win - no case law.
This is a genuine question, is the decision of a Circuit Judge not binding on District Judges? If not it would seem a bit odd, given the judicial hierarchy?
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Is this not what airlines do (or at least, what I'm led to believe they do, it might just be a USA thing?) - overbook seats because they know some people won't turn up?
Yup. They even used to do it on Concorde. I once flew from JFK to LHR on Concorde, and they needed 2 people to give up their seats.
The inducement they offered was:
- Guaranteed seats on the next day's flight, and as this was a Sunday and the Monday was a Bank Holiday, that would have been OK for a lot of people
- Hotel accommodation in NY for the night (and I bet it wouldn't have been a flea-pit)
- Travel vouchers on BA to the value of 2 one-way Concorde flights.
There was an unseemly stampede of people towards the desk.
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Yes, there are also some regulations that apply when you get denied. There are international regulations and some have their own (eg Europe).
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Conning you into believing that you were booking a room, as opposed to the possibility of a room if enough customers failed to turn up, is potentially a misleading trading practice (CPUTR), if the average consumer might not have booked if they were aware of the scam.
Is this not what airlines do (or at least, what I'm led to believe they do, it might just be a USA thing?) - overbook seats because they know some people won't turn up?
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It would need someone with enough money to pursue it through the courts hoping for a favourable decision which would establish case law.
Sue in small claims - win - no case law.
Sue in small claims - lose - appeal to a Circuit Judge - win - no case law.
Seems like they’d have to lose at least twice to get the case to a level where (binding) case law would be created.
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It would need someone with enough money to pursue it through the courts hoping for a favourable decision which would establish case law.
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If the contract is for accommodation at a specified time and place, between a business and a consumer, it is difficult to see how any exclusionary clause beyond force majeure (Acts of God) could be effective. Also, due to the nature of the service being provided, such a clause would seem to be onerous on the victim and would need to be advertised prominently.
If the other party breaches the terms of the contract, you are entitled to be put into the position (or equivalent) that you would have been if they did not breach the terms. "Oh well, we double sold the rooms on the probability that x% would not show up, tough luck - they did, here's your money back" is not putting the consumer back into the same position. Considering that hotels typically charge extra for cancellable bookings, it would seem perverse to say that they can cancel because you lost their gamble and simply refund your money
There seems to be an overlap between "sharp practices" and offences contrary to the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008 - which largely equate to fraud but without the requirement to prove intent, however, I am not aware of any specific offence that would seem to fit the facts naturally. They have in effect taken something away from you that you had a legal right to, but I am not sure that theft would apply to an intangible, or that it is "yours" until you have taken possession.
Conning you into believing that you were booking a room, as opposed to the possibility of a room if enough customers failed to turn up, is potentially a misleading trading practice (CPUTR), if the average consumer might not have booked if they were aware of the scam.
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It might be sharp practice but I don't think it's illegal.
It's a breach of contract (you've paid for something that the other party hasn't provided).
Have you read the contract?
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I don't think it is.
If you read the T and C Travelodge provide they tell you they will try and provide you the booked room honest. But if we can't we'll try and provide you another locally and if we cant then we will give your money back.
Whether or not that holds up as a fair term if challenged who knows. But they didn't breach it.
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It might be sharp practice but I don't think it's illegal.
It's a breach of contract (you've paid for something that the other party hasn't provided).
Not illegal and your remedy is via the Small Claims Court if the other party doesn't refund.
But they always will which leaves them free to chuck into the bin any letters you send them demanding compensation.
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It might be sharp practice but I don't think it's illegal.
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It's a wonder that overbooking for something prepaid is actually legal. As you've paid in advance then not turning up doesn't affect the hotel, unlike a restaurant or hairdressers etc.
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I successfully avoid this by never booking with Travelodge.
Their T and Cs say they overbook and whatever algorithm they use is somewhat poor.
They even do it on non refundable bookings hoping you will be a no show. (They do refund under these circumstances of course).
It is true that it's commonly done. Generally confirming an arrival time reasonably early in the day helps. That assumes you can actually speak to a human at your intended destination.
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I recently went on a family vacation, which was quite eventful (If you have seen my earlier post). Now, I need advice on this one.
I had booked 2 (a small and a large) rooms in a well-known hotel (branch name - T) directly from their official website. Check-in time was 3 pm on Mar 29th. When we reached around 10 pm - 10:30 pm, the people at the reception stated that they cannot give us rooms as they were overbooked, and our rooms have been given to someone else. They mentioned that its a known process across the hotel industry (I knew this happens with airlines), and we should have called to confirm our arrival. This booking was of course paid, and booked more than a month in advance.
Keeping a calm mind, with kids and 2 families in the car, I was looking for options like opting for 2 small rooms, talking with them to find out arrangements, why didn't they call to notify us, etc. Somehow, they offered to put 1 family in this branch T, while they can accommodate the other family in branch X which is 30 mins between X and T. Now, I was the sole driver, and this of course seemed mad. So, I asked them to check if both the rooms can be accommodated in the other branch X, rather than dividing us up, which worked in our favour.
I generally call up the airbnb bookings as they are mostly families, and sometimes, they may not be set for travellers on odd times, but for hotel chains, this seems absurd.
How do you experts generally tackle this kind of situation? What are the general guidelines on complaints? Any other advice?